Paleo-Hebrew

That’s a head scratcher… Not really. Just like dinosaur bones, Paleo-Hebrew artifacts were buried to confuse the nonbelievers.

1. Define a language. By one way of defining things, Lashon Kodesh is a dead language, and Ivrit is a modern derivative (similar to the relationship of Latin to French, or modern American English to Middle English).

2. Fonts constantly change. Note the history of “Rashi” font (once used for popular literature, now only for serious sefarim). The writing system is independent of the language (e.g English uses the Roman alphabet, Yiddish uses the Hebrew alphabet, Farsi uses the Arabic alphabet, most ancient Mesopotamian Semitic languages used the Sumerian script).

Nice to see you redleg.

The language didn’t change, just the alphabet. Noone really knows why the change was made. Some of Bar Kochba’s minted coins have Paleo-Hebrew on them. I sometimes wonder when I hear a crush based upon the Aramaic letters in the Torah since that’s that how the Torah was written for centuries . How do we know that sifrei Torah had been written in Paleo-Hebrew ? The Sanaritans, who copied everything we did when the Assyrians brought them in, still write their sifrei torah in Paleo-Hebrew.

Rightwriter, the only wrench thrown is the wrench in your question. (No offense intended.)

Of course, the Italians and Persians are a continuation of the genetic lines of Rome and Persia, but they are completely different today culturally and are entirely different nations in every aspect. We are a continuation of the Jewish nation of then, as we are currently. Lack of sovereignty doesn’t mitigate the status of a cohesive nation or people. Though we are international and broadly diverse, we maintain our identity and distinctive existence as uniquely Am Yisrael.

As far as Languages go, they constantly change even within individual nations. Just look at the 2500 year linguistic histories of Germany and Britain. Our language evolved too, just like others. Notice how the words in Navi are different than Toras Moshe and evolve even from sefer to sefer.

Lashon Kodesh is indeed the original language, though it may have already evolved into many dialects by the time we stood at har Sinai.

@rightwriter I believe your questions are valid, however I don’t think this isn’t the right forum for them. One can ask questions, do research and evaluate evidence no matter where it leads you in the end – that’s called scientific method, or one can have a predetermined answer and explain away the questions in order to fit it – that’s called faith. You can have rationality or you can have faith, but you can’t have both.

The sources and discussions on this issue are there for those that want to find them. I vaguely remembered the Gemara and found the following just by googling:
Start with the Gemara in Sanhedrin 21b – 22a – a three way machloket about which was the original script and how/why it was changed.
The Rishonim also discuss it on the spot. There is discussion of the issue in Sefer Ikarim (maamar 3), Meshech Chochma (in devarim 31:9), Maharal (tifferet yisrael), Torah Temima (devarim 17, nt 92) as well.

NonImpeditiRationeCogitationis
The answers aren’t pre determined to prop up our mesorah. It seems you are suggesting that the Torah is secondary to your assumptions of fact. Chalilah! It seems you are strangely misguided. Please set your logic straight for your sake!
תורה צוה לנו משה מורשה קהילת יעקב
אחזנוה ולא נעזבנה

There is no such thing as faith in Judaism. We have only knowledge and testimony. Faith is for the foolish Christians. Faith is for feeble minded idiots. One must know Hashem, not have faith. וידעת היום, אתה הראית לדעת

Emunah is mistranslated as faith. Emunah is trusting that Hashem knows best even when things seem dark and hopeless. That is not faith. That is like knowing that the pilot will land safely. Or that the architect will execute his blueprint. We know Hashem, we do not merely believe.

In reply to rightwriter, of course we have changed. Nations are constantly changing. We are the same nation and people as always because of how we identified as a nation from the very beginning. Each nation has a way of self determination. The Roman’s, Egyptians, Persians are all gone because they are currently nothing like they were before especially in regards to their respective expressions of national identity.

Am Yisrael continues it’s expression and core cultural aspects of yore ad hayom hazeh. See Rashi on the pasuk עמים הר יקראו

You might want to look at the Yerushalmi Megilla Halacha 9.

כי פי המדבר עליכם – בלשון הקודש the writings I don’t know, referenced the gemoras speaking about it but the language is holy as the Ramban says there are no dirty words in it. Akuperma it is despicable to say Loshan Hakadash is dead as it is too holy to be used.

se2015, thank you for quoting the Rambam.

@Shimon Nodel To be sure, I would never impugn anyone’s faith, trust, testament, emunah (whatever word you want to use, the essence is the same). I was merely pointing out the difference between a faith-based and scientific method of inquiry. Without getting too much into the epistemological thickets, let’s take a famous and neutral example. In the Classical world it was assumed that all swans are white. So what is one to do when confronted with a black swan (yes, they do in fact exist)? A follower of the scientific method will have to admit that the fundamental postulate (all swans are white) is no longer tenable and will discard it thus shifting the paradigm. However, someone who believes in the infallibility of the fundamental postulate (whether through faith or testimony, etc.) will have to explain away the black swan, e.g. the postulate is metaphorical, admits an exception, the black swan is not really black, etc., etc.. It is similar to your example of trusting the pilot will land the plane safely–it only takes one plane crash to demolish this supposition (problem of induction). All of this is to say that scientific method and religion are fundamentally incompatible and cannot be reconciled without making a category mistake–never twain shall meet. To someone with emunah it should never matter that science claims that the earth is 4.5 billion years old, or that Paleo-Hebrew looks suspiciously similar to the much older Phoenician or Proto-Canaanite, or whether there are textual inconsistencies or scribal errors in ancient texts. This category mistake is why the word ‘talmudic’ acquired the pejorative connotation in the secular world–the function of Talmud is not to overturn the testament that is assumed to be infallible but to reconcile it with any fact that is contrary to it.

NonImpeditiRationeCogitationis,

Even framed that way, it leaves plenty of room to discuss what exactly qualifies as a fundamental postulate where faith based thinking takes over. Is the statement that lashon hakodesh, or the formation of its letters, is ancient and original, a fundamental postulate, or is it more like a white swan?

Ramban quoted above states that lashon hakodesh is Canaanite (or that people of Canaan spoke lashon hakodesh). It had nothing to do with its similarities to Phoenician, so it wasn’t a concession based on scientific evidence. Ramban emphasizes that the kedushah derives from the fact that it is the language the Torah was given in.

Leosid Lavo we pasken like the Beis Shamai, why when the majority does not agree? However, currently there are views we don’t understand, like Rebbi Eliezer, Rebbi Meir. Leosid lavo we come to a new understanding and we will understand the stringencies of the Beis Shamai, so the majority will accept their view.

Look at the Sefer Hachinuch in his hakdama saying that six hundred thousand people would not pass over, inherit false principles to their children but what they saw with their own eyes. We just found a new meaning for Passover, tradition. This also explains why we start Pirkei Avos on Passover as the Torah was passed over to forty gernerations.