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My teacher told us today that its a machlokes or not if you are aloud to walk around in P.J’s (meaning short sleeves and pants) in front of your father. She said it is not so pashut and it might be assur it’s a machlokes… she said in front of your brothers – for sure not… What do you think?
What does your father think?
consult your LOR regarding this matter, your teacher is a mechanech NOT a posek!
Ask a Posek, but as long as your father is not learning or Davening then there is no issue.
Wear a nightgown!
You want us to belittle your teachers words?
koillel101
tuna baigel
Wear a nightgown!
some people say that pajamas are more tznius than a nightgown, since a nightgown rides up and pajamas don’t.
I remember when I was in seminary the aim habayis told everyone that slept on a bunkbed to wear pajamas under a nightgown…
I think the only time a nightgown is not tznius is when you are rolling around in bed and it hikes up during sleep. I don’t imagine that a girl’s father or brother is coming into her room to daaven or learn there, so that doesn’t seem to be the issue. But just for the sake of being tznius, it would be a good idea to put on the pants of the pajamas under the nightgown, but unfortunately things seem to have swung to the other side of the pendulum and daughters in frum families are sometimes only wearing the pajamas and the nightgown has been forgotten.
Mentch was that before or after they wrapped you in bandages?
and did u miss your mummy?
mods – mentsch. = qtpie……..
ask your father to ask the family rav. or call him yourself. or call the rebbetzin and ask her to ask the rav. or have your mother call the rebbetzin. lots of options. asking here, probably one of the worst options.
My teacher told us today
Understand that your teacher has ulterior motives into creating separation between you and your parents. Chances are she is not a posek, and she does not know Halacha.
YOU go ask your own Rov (as in the Rabbi of the shul that you and your father daven). Not some “teacher” who never read a Shach.
The Rambam Issurei Biyah 21 (and the SA agrees):
? ????: ???? ??? ???? ???, ??????, ????? ???? ?????? ???, ??? ??? ?? ???–?? ??? ??? ?????. ?????? ????? ??? ???? ???? ?????, ???? ????? “????? ????? ?????? ????” (?????? ??,?)–?? ??? ??????, ??? ??? ??????. ??? ????? ??? ???? ????? ???? ???? ?????, ?? ??????, ??? ?? ??? ???? ????? ???? ??? ?????, ?? ?? ?? ??? ?????–??????? ?????? ???, ??? ????? ????? ??? ??????.
Go to your teacher, and ask her to show you sources. Never take her word for it.
“your teacher has ulterior motives into creating separation between you and your parents”
That is a pretty strong accusation care to elaborate?
That is a pretty strong accusation care to elaborate?
The old “who do you follow? The Gedolim or your parents?”
Common enough.
What is wrong with asking her father? Why is everyone assuming that her father doesn’t count here?
I doubt the teacher has an ulterior motive. The teacher is probably repeating what she asked her own husband or rav.
I don’t understand. You are saying the choice is Gedolim or Parents. OK. But in your previous post it seemed to me as if you were saying it was teacher vs parents with rav. Is the teacher following gedolim and the parents/rav not?
I’m used to a small town community where the teachers and parents work together very closely (and are often the same people). That could be why I’m shocked by the comment.
“Understand that your teacher has ulterior motives into creating separation between you and your parents.”
I agree with this statement and will elaborate according to my own point of view.
The shul Rav is a spiritual guide whose duty and desire is to take care of his constituent families with halachic and other spiritual advice. He is in it for them, not for himself or a given institution, and his decisions take many factors into account.
The “teacher” is charged with a very specific agenda, to inculcate the students with a very well-defined hashkafah which views itself as the only “right way”, and rejects other hashkafahs as not legitimate.
The teacher is therefore suspect of ulterior motives, namely, forcing the the student into the mold of the school’s hashkafah at the expense of the parents’ hashkafah.
oot for life
I don’t understand. You are saying the choice is Gedolim or Parents. OK. But in your previous post it seemed to me as if you were saying it was teacher vs parents with rav. Is the teacher following gedolim and the parents/rav not?
I’m used to a small town community where the teachers and parents work together very closely (and are often the same people). That could be why I’m shocked by the comment.
My experience from Sem reports (which is what I base my comments on, not my children’s teachers, who I have good things to say (and don’t try to pasken)) is that they don’t really care about Halacha. They have an agenda to make everyone agree to there own personal feelings (or their husbands’) on what the halacha should be, and CLAIM that is what the Gedolim want. The last thing the teachers want want is for a girl to verify or ask questions to an actual Rov, Posek or Gadol.
Both the Shulchan Aruch and the Rambam (which I understand why the mods don’t want to post it, it is Issurei Biyah 21:7) hold there is no problem whatsoever. For someone to make up a machlokes without showing any sources, when it is “Offen in Shulchan Aruch” that it is Muttar, is highly suspicious.
I’ve just heard too many first hand stories of “If you don’t have two sinks, you’re eating traife” and “Girls are not allowed to talk on the street” from girls schools & Sems. They do not have a Chezkas Kashrus in my book.
Gavra and Old man, thank you for explaining your point(s).
Points well taken. Question. If you disagree with the hashkafos taught by the school/seminary why are you (or your children) in that school?
Points well taken. Question. If you disagree with the hashkafos taught by the school/seminary why are you (or your children) in that school?
Mine are not (as I pointed out earlier).
GAW. Even if it wasnt clear, the question wasnt directed to you per se. My comment was address to those whose comments were behind your statement.
apushatayid:
This is what I hear from the girls that come back. They basicly tell the parents that the Sems are crazy. The parents? Good question. Partially for Shidduchim, partially because everyone else does it, and partially due to ignorance of what they are getting themselves into.
Yes, but now that you let the cat out of the bag, ignorance is no longer an excuse 🙂
Hermione (first poster): Forget about pajamas and ask you teacher to explain the difference between “aloud” and “allowed.” The former is how I laughed when I read the word in your post.
Are you still in Hogwarts? I thought you graduated already, how are Ron and Harry? [joke]
she said that it doesnt say that you cant walk around in front of your father with ervah showing, rather he cant make a bracha or say krias shema in front of you if ervah is showing so therfore some poskim hold that he cant see you in pajamas at all.
The “Therefore” is extremely weak, and contradictory to the Mishna Berurah that she quoted. Perhaps you should ask her for the “Posek” who holds it is assur? I believe if you challenge her, she will once again retract and say that some poskim “recommend” to always be fully covered, but no Issur exists (Perhaps something like Gur may say Assur, but that is their own quirk). Furthermore, we don’t pasken like these Poskim.
Good for you that you that you asked. I’m impressed.
hi its me!
i wsn’t here for quiet some time!
i missed u all!
now bck to wht this thread is about, if ur father said ur allowed than u should go according to what he says!
“if ur father said ur allowed than u should go according to what he says!”
i second that.
thanxs for agreeing with me!!!
I say this for the sake of other teachers out there:
To say that something is Halacha and only later, upon being asked, to elaborate that it is the opinion of SOME poskim (and not to say whom), seems irresponsible and misleading to me.
That’s like saying “in the name of some, you have to keep this Halacha”.
If you are blessed to know how to spell, than please use your gift also to not hurt people. A joke is only hurtful when it’s said to make fun of a person.
Sorry I got here so late, this quote is from a few weeks ago.
“…she also told us that some people have a problem with swimming because the shechinah is resting at the pool…”
I am having a difficult time understanding this, and I am resisting the temptation to ridicule. I’d rather an explanation as to what this means. Please.
On another note,if by any means Sam2 sees this, then please note that this is exactly what I am referring to in another unrelated post.
old man – “I am resisting the temptation to ridicule.”
If you won’t, I will. Maybe Hashem decided to take a dip? Or maybe by her pool because the Shechina is on top of Sick people!
I’ll also add some Laitzanus, since it is of Avoda Zara:
Why worry? The women are IN the water. J can only walk on top of it!
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