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Let me start off by stating the following- Baruch HaShem I have amazing, caring, & loving parents. Throughout my life, my parents have held me to very high standards in any area they possibly could (Especially academically). They have also been very controlling- they’re constantly giving me their two cents when I speak about what I want for my future & it discourages me greatly- not to mention causes many fights & creates unneeded tension. I feel like I do not have their support. I am constantly repeating to my parents that this is MY life & not theirs. I feel that my parents high standards & control over me has hindered my ability to think & make decisions for myself. I want my parents to give me my space & let me think for myself and make decisions COMPLETELY based off of what I want and not what they expect/want! I am turning 18 & will soon IY”H be graduating High School. I will soon have to make a lot of decisions- Seminary, college, etc. How do I go about such a matter without becoming chutzpadik but getting my point across?
First off, know that this is a very common problem amongst teens. Parents have a hard time switching from parenting children to parenting teens, which often has disastrous effects on the child.
Do you have a mechaneches that you respect to talk to about this?
First of all I would like to commend you on your opening remarks. Secondly, my advice is as follows: you need to sit down and have a heart to heart discussion, explaining your feelings. Please try to keep it as respectful as possible. I would begin with thanking them for everything they’ve done and continue to do for you on a daily basis. You need to explain to them that you understand how they only have your best interests in mind, but you’ve come to a point in your life where you need to have a little more independence! Yes you are prepared to even make mistakes along the way , but that’s how we all grow… If you convey your wishes with respect and thankfulness I am sure they will get your message! Hatzlocha!!!
sweetie, find a Rabbi or teacher your parents respect, talk to that person and sit down together with you parents and discuss what goals you would like to accomplish in your life. I would not call your parents controlling, as your parents do love you and have your best interests at heart. Otherwise, if they did not care, they would leave you to your own devices. Your parents have life experience under their belt. They have seen things in their lifetime that they want to protect you from. Unfortunately, the only way to truly give a child independence is to let them make mistakes and learn from them. Mistakes do have a purpose in life, in that they let you learn from them and let you grow, hopefully, a little more wiser.
Asay licha Rav (or rebbetzin).
FFBBT613 – Sorry, but if you want their monetary support, you will have to play by their rules. Unless you were planning on paying for seminary yourself? You get to make your own decisions once you are 18, but not with their money.
FFBBT613 – Sorry, but if you want their monetary support, you will have to play by their rules. Unless you were planning on paying for seminary yourself? You get to make your own decisions once you are 18, but not with their money.
Are you saying that as a practical measure, or as what you think the result should be.
I don’t think you’re correct even as a practical result. Many parents actually want what is best for their kids, and are willing to even pay money for things that their kid wants even if they personally don’t want it.
FFBT- from the information I’ve gathered about your parents from your others thread, it seems to me that this isn’t an issue of “controlling” rather it is an issue of miscommunication. Your parents have a different hashkafa from you- in her mind the way they raised you is correct. Seeing that you have different ideas is probably offensive to them. Is that to say you shouldn’t have those ideas? Chad veshalom. Everyone must find their right path and you should be matzliach in your continued growth. Your parents will always be your parents and your the lucky type that has parents who actually want to be involved.
You have to know this doesn’t change over night and this is going to be a challenge for you for the rest of your life (a great and blessed challenge). It is a learning process. My best advice is to show your parents you are understanding of their view point. Always start off your difficult conversations by showing them that you care about the way they are, and then explain to them why you are saying what you are saying. You must be very well thought through as well.
Ex: if this is an issue about the type of boy you want to marry or the lifestyle you want to lead. Show them h things you still do- show them your still you in your essence, but your hashkafa has evolved. This isn’t about proving them wrong this is about proving you right. It is about showing them Yor serious about your life choices while showing you are mature and well thought out.
I can tell you from experiance as my parents are also more left wing and modern than I am. And trust me we butt heads a lot. But we’ve really grown with each other. Seminary defiantly helped answer a lot of questions for me, but really it’s just putting yourself in their shoes and saying would I want o hear my daughter choosing all these things we didn’t raise her to do? Yes on their part they must realize their children are gifts from hashem and not clones of them. On the other hand- you are their child they put all their time and effort into you, they just want to see you happy, but respectful and well thought out.
As long as they are paying the bills, they have a vote. Pay for seminary and college yourself and you can do as you wish.
First of all, your parents are playing a very dangerous game, because if they keep this up, they will push you farther and farther away.
They have put alot of time and attention into raising you, and if they did a great job (and it sounds like they did) they need to start trusting your opinions, not agreeing with them, BUT recognizing them.
If you can, discuss this with someone YOUR PARENTS respect, and then have a meeting with the 4 of you, it is possible they will hear what you have to say and give you the room you need to grow.
I discovered, a long time ago, that a written letter works far better than a conversation. With a conversation, the people you are talking to are formulating their answer and NOT listening. With a letter, they will read it, get angry, hopefully, re-read it and give it some thought. THEN it is the time for conversation which will be far more productive.
You are growing up and your parents are afraid, they are afraid you are growing away from them. Which you are and which you should.
The boy you marry MUST be of your choosing not theirs. You know what you want, they know what they want for you, BUT, if you are ready to get married (when you are) you are ready to chose the derech you wish to live.
If intervention with a third party does not work, you will have to either go along with their choices, or make some hard choices of your own.
FFBBT- you sound like me literally 2 years ago (you can go read old threads of mine asking almost the same thing). I don’t want to disclose information about my personal situation, but lets just say it took an extremly long and painful time to get my parents to trust the things I wanted from my life. (including and probably very similar to the things you want in your life).
You are still in high school and you have a great deal of maturing to do. That is normal and I know how terribly frustrating it is. I felt like I was talking to a brick wall as well. There needs to be places where you compormise though. It is easy to say “I wish my parent was like that Bais Yaakov girl, who wants her daughter to dress more tzniously, wants her to marry that type of guy and get that type of degree”.
Hashem clearly didn’t set your life up that way, and the first step to getting you anywhere is to accept that. Accept the parents you were given. I know you say you do, but think deep down. Accepting them is more than saying “they are loving and support me etc.” It is embracing the fact that they have different ideals and values than you, and that is ok.
Once you have accepted that your mom will never fully appreciate where you are coming from you can now move to stage two: compromise. You know your values, but allow yourself to now replace that ideal mother in your head with your mother. Compromise can be as simple as letting your parents more into your head. It is showing them you are taking responsability. Or it can be as far as saying I will do my degree the way you want it, but I want to go to a specific collage.
Part of maturing is stopping to think the world revolves around you. It is scary, and I’m not accusing you of being full of yourself C”V. But everyone has their big dreams. Yours will come one day, you just have specific hurdles to overcome. You have to approach them the right way. Be calm, be patient and be slow to anger. Trust me, I go through this often still, but I have learned how to have these conversations with my parents. You will too.
Listen to your parents. That doesn’t necessarily mean following their views in every regard, but the more that you listen attentively and seriously consider their opinions, the more they will trust your judgment.
I tried pointing out to my child a long time ago, “Think how much more you know and understand now than you knew a few years ago – What makes you think there’s nothing left to learn?” (and btw, it didn’t work.)
FFBt- in that case youll need to support yourself. get your plan figured out before you go to them again about this. There is such thing as student loans that don’t have interest- look into those. If you get a good paying job you can pay those off within a few years. If you are serious about your descions you have to show them you are. Show them you are taking responsability for it. Show them you’ve done your research, you have a plan, BUT you are open to the fact that you are human and your plan might fail because Hashem obviously has other plans. At the end of the day, you just need to show them you are prepared for the dreams you have for your life.
Funny, in the shidduch system, no one objects to the parents deciding which boys are appropriate, but in this case the parents are viewed as controlling
As long as they are paying the bills, they have a vote. Pay for seminary and college yourself and you can do as you wish.
A comment which would make sense if she were considering suing her parents.
But inasmuch as we’re only discussing normal parent-child relationships, I’m not sure why we’re talking about “votes” and “rights.” Presumably her parents want to do what is good for her, and not everything they are “entitled to do.”
Funny, in the shidduch system, no one objects to the parents deciding which boys are appropriate, but in this case the parents are viewed as controlling
Funny works both ways. First figure out how you are critical the other way, and then come call us funny. Also, nobody except OP called it controlling.
PBA: And they believe they have a better idea of what is “good” for her than she does. Due to their vastly greater experience, it behooves her to at least consider that they may be correct. Even if not, they have no reason to support her down a path with they believe will lead to disaster.
FFBBT613 – Sounds like a very easy life for you, and you can dedicate your time to various chassadim and causes. I know many frum women who would jump at such a life (let alone those who unfortunately can’t find anyone at all).
Why would you have issues with their thinking? Because you have found the boy of your dreams, “love” him and want to marry him? As I said earlier, they won’t stop you, but they also won’t support your (in their belief) bad decision.
FFBBT613, I’m not saying you’re obligated to endorse your parents lifestyle. Just don’t expect them to pay for yours. Have you given any thought how you are going to pay for airfare, living expenses and seminary tuition? Are you even aware of how much it costs?
@gavra.. I want a completely different lifestyle from my parents. After 120 that rich husband, fancy house, car, & degree will be nothing & I’m not interested in wasting my life on nothing.
Only if you do nothing with it. I’m certainly not suggesting that; it would be such a waste of potential mitzvos and maasim tovim.
FFBBT613, I’m not saying you’re obligated to endorse your parents lifestyle. Just don’t expect them to pay for yours. Have you given any thought how you are going to pay for airfare, living expenses and seminary tuition? Are you even aware of how much it costs?
Is that how you deal with your own kids? If they don’t do what you want, you cut them off?
Then you wonder why they rebel and become yeshivish…
popa_bar_abba – Since you asked, would you monetarily support your child if they believe their calling is to become a Minister? And once you say “no”, then it is only a matter of degree.
FFBBT- like I said, just show them you are serious about it. You are still in high school, they might not have a grip on what your doing. Espcially since your father grew up yeshvish, he has his own hold backs.
You were born into the life you have, and you are there for a reason. You have an obstacle, but it is up to you to decide whether this is going to limit you or not.
In my story, I spent a whole year behind the scenes on my life, because my parents didn’t want to see it front and centre. You have to realize that they have their own life experiances and you aren’t going to change that. The only thing you can change is their perception of you. If you show them that you are serious (and by this I mean say to them, I love you, I love that you guide me and have raised me to make choices productivly. I feel that I have thought about this alot and going this path is the way for me. Here is my plan (just a rough plan): Im doing this schooling, this seminary etc. This is how I plan on paying for it (I’ve looked into loans, applied for scholarships, spoken to bankers etc.), because I would never expect you to pay. I want to give you nachas, I want to make you happy, but I also want to make me happy.).
FFBBT, it is showing them you are happy and mature. That means you need to accept them and learn to work around them, not the other way around. If you want to be YOU, then be you. No one is stopping you. Not even them. You just need to elarn to navigate your relationship with them, and that starts with forming a baseline of mutual understadnign between you guys.
No, and of course it is only a matter of degree.
But that hasn’t been my point on this thread.
My point on this thread is in response to lesschumrahs, and to lesser extent yourself, who seem to expect that a parent would cut off their kid for something much more trivial such as wanting to be yeshivish. And moreover implying that because something is a parent’s prerogative, it is therefore also the right thing for the parents to do.
PBA, that was never an issue with my kids; we were on the same page. However, two close friends dealt with situation. A son came back from Israel and announced he was not going to college and would instead become a melamed in yeshiva. My friend didn’t argue but, every time his son asked for a sefer, his father bought them and showed him the bills. Finally, the son asked what was going on. My friend responded that 12_ yrs yeshiva, yeshiva in Israel and sforim are expensive. A life as a rebbe would not allow him to provide for his future family as his father had provided for him. My friend made it clear that he would not fund a lifestyle he disagreed with. His son ultimately got Simcha at YU and bacame a CPA. PBA, you call it cutting off. I call it the parents choosing to not fund a lifestyle they disagree with. One big problem is that most children have been so shielded that they have no clue as to how much a frum lifestyle costs nor what poverty means
Your friend is a jerk and doesn’t love his kids?
What else is supposed to be my response?
If he said “I don’t want to support you after you’re married, so you better pick a profession and wife that will let you support yourself”–that would be fine. But he only won’t support him because learning is a lifestyle he doesn’t agree with–implying that he would support him if he was doing something else that doesn’t earn money. So he’s a jerk and doesn’t love his kids.
I mean, I knew there were jerks who don’t love their kids. I didn’t know you were friends with any, but I’m also probably friends with some. I’m not sure how it proves anything about what we should assume normal parents will do.
Now that his son has a profession in addition to his Simcha , he doesn’t have to support him. Not exactly a jerk, but he does love his kids
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