OUTRAGES?! Violence in Jerusalem

This was when Olmert was mayor and there was no rioting. Bored kids throwing rocks at cars of other Jews. They need a better outlet.

To answer the editor’s questions –

Does anyone find the recent Hafganos in Yerushalayim outrages and a Chillul Hashem? YES

Does anyone think this is totally normal – trowing rocks at the cops, damaging police cruisers, burning dumpsters, smashing traffic lights? NO – THEY SHOULD BE ARRESTED

Does anyone think that we have lost “our way”? THE PEOPLE DOING THE ABOVE HAVE – BUT DON’T PAINT US ALL THAT WAY.

Does anyone think that the Gedolim are sending these people out to protest in this fashion? If you do, then where are the Gedolim? Why aren’t they out there tossing rocks? And if you think that they are not supportive of this type of Hafganah, then why don’t they appear in PERSON at one of these violent Hafganos and physically yell and scream at the protesters to stop it? THE GEDOLIM SHOULD BE SPEAKING OUT AGAINST VIOLENCE. I DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHY THEY ARE NOT.

‘The following is just questions, and not an editors view in anyway:’

Well its obviously bothersome to you, or else you wouldnt bring it to our attention.

‘Odom Nifal Kifiy Peulosov’ Outside actions depict the inner mind.

There is no question that these demonstrations are getting way out of hand and are

very primitive. Our aim is to sanctify Hashem and by taking such action in public is no less then desecrating G-d’s name.

Why the Gedolim are not offically critical is a tough question to answer….

Unfortunately, the behavior of some people has fallen to that of wild animals.

Unless there is a threat to your life, you should not be throwing rocks. You should not be burning garbage cans.

If the woman is innocent, then the investigation will show that. I would rather a child me removed from a parent and then the parent proven innocent, than a child dying because they were left in the care of an abusive parent.

Perhaps the better question to ask about the gedolim is: Since they aren’t saying anything, are they complicit with the actions of their followers? Its not like in these times its hard to communicate with the masses. Besides, isn’t shtikah k’hodaah?

It is definitely causing a huge chillul Hashem. I’ve heard non-Jews talking about it after it was reported on the news. They were talking about how crazy these super-religious Jews are, and how happy they are to be atheists, because they would never do something like that in the name of G-d.

I’ve also heard Jewish people discussing it, and insulting Rabbonim for not saying a word about it.

AREIVIM said,

“sicko

I’m sure you’d do a much better job then our gedolim”

I never claimed i would. Then again I dont claim that evreything i say is daas torah and expect people to listen to evreything I say without question.

*sob* where is moshiach?! (or you could say, ad mosai?)

R’ Yechezkel Abramsky zt”l from Ponovetz once said that the krum kupp was only created for shidduchim and being dan l’kaf zchus.

So nice to see many krum kupps on the street tonight.

The Gedolim are silent because they know their words won’t work with this crowd. These are people who have their own da’as torah. And apply their own psak when they see fit. The gedolim never organized any protest here (unlike the Shabbos parking lot) so any comment about this protest will be viewed by some as an approval of the protest initially. Additionally, requesting that one of the gedolim leave now (11pm) and go there go calm the crowd will only cause the expectation among the rioter to continue future rioting until told explicitly in person by a gadol not to.

In regard to the toeva parade a few years back, R’ Moshe Shternbuch personally told people in my yeshiva that one should go protest (he did as well), he knew people would take it too far, he was ashamed in advance that people would take it too far. But he said he would not turn his back on those who took it too far.

There are many people who, unfortunately need an outlet. After sporting events there are often riots. Studies have shown that the rioters often have no connection to the sporting event. The just want to riot. I have no doubt that many people tonight are more inspired to act against the police as a way of expressing their perceived mistreatment at the hands of the authorities over the Shabbos Parking lot issue than those who believe this mother is being unfairly treated.

nameless

my “i dont know” was actually directed to the question as to why the Gedolim are not stopping this.

i should have made that clear.

This is a massive chillul hashem and a breakdown in the chinuch that parents are supposed to teach their kids.

In addition, I think the Chareidi school system needs to do some major soul searching, to see what it can do to prevent kids from feeling the urge to do these kind of things.

Something is terribly wrong!

Since when are the Gdolim the only Jews we expect to keep Torah?

The Gdolim shlita are our poskim. When you have a shaila you go to them and do what they say – unquestionably!

But who said that they should be out their doing OUR dirty work?

Since when did yiddishkeit become about abdicating responsibility???

This is our problem. We caused it by turning a blind eye.

Let’s take back out streets!

Now let’s stand up for Kavod Shomayim!!!!

My error, he was Rosh Yeshiva of Slabodka in Bnei Brak

Thanks for pointing out my error.

I wouldn’t believe it (especially in the context claimed) just because the JPost or some other zionist outlet claims a video exists.

You’ll notice I chose my words carefully Mr. Joseph.

For some reason, this story brings back memories. I wonder if this is a repeat of a similar story from a short while back, or if this is the same mother both times.

To all those that feel free to bash Am Yisroel, Gedolim, Chareidim, Yiddishkeit and everything else: I’m starting to say t’hillim for YOU

get help

Good point about it not being a legitimate news source. I wouldn’t even trust the veracity of their so-called “quotes”.

I strongly disagree with violence but in this case that askanim and family members were trying to settle for a week in a civilized manner this is being used as a last resort because this is the language these Sonei Yisrael understand. There are too many obvious unanswered questions that raise many red flags and it seems somebody (doctors, hospitals )have a serious agenda. Even the Police chief Franco doesn’t understand why this woman is being held prisoner when things in such cases are normally handled in a more civilized manner.

To YW Moderator-39 did you check out the Jpost video of “riots” in Jerusalem. It looks pretty peaceful to me besides for a few burning garbage bins.

Regarding the disconnecting of the IV- it was a feeding tube not an IV that’s number one, number 2 the hospital did not release the video for some reason, number 3 it is not unusual to disconnect a feeding tube in order to change child’s position. Number 4 the Ynet reported that child’s hair is falling out due to malnutrition, based on the families report (hydepark) the child was being treated with chemotherapy. Very suspicious on the Hospital’s report.

The saddest thing is that I have people I know well who like to pepper me with religious questions, and I have to defend the Torah to them all the time. Now they will be laughing their heads off making a total joke and mockery out of the entire religion and I will have nothing to say. This actually is the best limud zchus anybody could have dreamed of for the non-frum. They all have every right to say why in the world should I keep Shabbos or kosher when this is what Judaism is all about. Can anybody blame them? Oy liploni shelamad torah… r’eu kamah mkulkalin maysav.

It needs to be said again. The Torah was never meant to be studied in a vacuum. It was meant for yishuv haolam. Having a job and getting an education and being pressured with tests and homework and project deadlines, and having to chap arein for some learning time is not negative, the terrible stress makes a mensch out of a person. Chazal knew this when they said habatalah meviah liydei shiamum. When one has no deadlines and responsibilities, this wildness is the end result.

That is why the Israeli army is so useful for among other things, creating self-discipline and self-esteem, and appreciation for how hard it is to run a society, and how rewarding it is to be a part of it. It would be such a chesed for these chareidim to go to the army. They would feel so much better about themselves. Remember that the gambler is pasul l’eidus according to one opinion because eino osek biyishuvo shel olam.

they should open a movie theater in mea shearim give these idiots something constructive to do

So far, we have no idea what the real story is. If the doctors are really at fault here – as some who are familiar with the story claim – then the protests must continue.

We don’t know the real story.

After “retiring” from the London Beis Din, R’ Abramsky came to Eretz Yisroel, and became Rosh Yeshiva in Slabodka Yeshiva in Bnei Brak,

Look at the R’ Frand Dvar Torah and little bio at the end

http://www.torah.org/learning/ravfrand/5756/kisavo.html#

PERIOD

I think the Gedolim feel like Rav Yochanan Ben Zakkai & the Baryonim.

Bored kids throwing rocks at cars of other Jews. They need a better outlet.”

That’s what baseball is for.

This entire business is very sad and upsetting on many levels.The Chilllul Shabbos is the first. The rioting however, in some ways is worse. The problem is that when there is a mob mentality, EVEN Gedolim cannot necessarily control the actions of large groups of people, assuming they know what is going on. Aharon Hakohein learned that lesson the hard way, and we are still paying for the Cheit Ha’Egel, several millennia later. Nobody should be throwing rocks at anyone. There can always be a vocal protest, not riot, and if something merits being protested, it should be. But these riots are not protests. Maybe some are legitimate protestors. But I would imagine that many teenagers involved in throwing rocks at police, are not doing so because they are kanoim. The excitement of the mob action just fuels the fire and frenzy that is already there.

Joseph, so what is their legal process?