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News is reporting that the OU is certifying as kosher a medical marijuana producer, and that Rabbi Genack says it’s a mitzva when advised by your doctor.
A few questions:
Does the OU hold it is permitted by halacha to break federal law?
Is the OU not concerned about penalties itself might bear for breaking federal law? (e.g. RICO).
According to the FDA and DEA, marijuana has not medical benefit or use. Have you ever wondered why drugs which are much more addictive and dangerous are available by prescription but marijuana is not? It’s because morphine and Demerol have medical benefits. So any doctor who prescribes marijuana is disagreeing with the government agencies whose job is to figure out what drugs work for what. Also, any doctor who prescribes it is a criminal.
In other news, the OU is unreliable because they don’t take responsibility for mislabeled items and think that if we really cared we’d all be reading their publications and if we don’t it means we don’t care.
edited
How can something be legal in NY if it’s a federal crime?
Is it not possible that the FDA has political motivations for not approving?
Also, what was edited?
It isn’t. It just only illegal under the laws of one. Same as murder which is only illegal under state law. And same as paying U.S. tax which is only required under federal law.
That is fascinating.
Highly unlikely. What motivation could they have? Who would care if they said it had medical benefit just like half the other drugs that are abused?
They’re afraid legalizing it for medical purposes will lead to it being legalized for recreational purposes, like in Colorado.
PBA: At least learn the history of why marijuana is illegal. I do think that the FDA and the government are being honest, but those with Taanos aren’t crazy. It’s an interesting story.
I am not familiar with U.S. law.
In Israel, medical marijuana, specifically but not exclusively for cancer patients, is widely used, encouraged by physicians, and the cost is significantly subsidized by the government. Much of the credit goes to Rabbi Litzman of the Agudat Yisrael party and Minister of Health for his efforts in creating this very effective project.
The purchase of this cannabis is strictly regulated and limited, and patients are given instruction in a hospital as to the various methods of use. A little research will show that there are a multitude of varieties, and the officially sanctioned growers have to abide by specific guidelines. Its’ efficacy has been proven beyond doubt. True, it does not benefit everyone, but the majority find significant relief with its use. Can it be abused by non-cancer-patients ? Yes, of course. But the Israeli system feels that the benefits far outweigh the risks. Someone who is interested in abusing this drug will find it much easier to buy it on the street illegally than from a former cancer patient.
The FDA has traditionally been very deliberate and cautious in approving new drugs and treatments, and they should be. They have very strict standards of approval, and are subject to political pressures and other considerations. But they are not the sole possessors of scientific information and research.
PBA: Last I checked, the Wikipedia article on the legal history of marijuana in the United States is good enough to get the point across, though there have been some editing wars between pro-pot and anti-pot people on it. I think editing is locked now.
PBA, the OU is not breaking the law. Marijuana eases the side effects of chemotherapy.
LC, they might very well be breaking the law even it does ease the effects of chemo. You could argue that it is proper in this instance to break the law.
I believe marijuana should be legal because the government is not my Mommy.
It’s legal in NY. The FDA is not the final authority. In any case, if it helps unfortunate cancer patients cope with chemotherapy ( and , PBA, there appears to be ample evidence that it does ) why deprive them of it? In NY, it can only be sold as vapor, not as cigarette, and requires a prescription. PBA, even if it’s only a placebo effect, if it works, what is the harm?
I want it as a houseplant. An ordinary houseplant, the kind that sits in a plant pot and acts like a plant.The leaves of the plant are very beautiful in shape and color. And it’s not legal as a houseplant.
The point of this thread is the last paragraph of PBA opening salvo against the OU. The subject and opening line is the hook.
1- It is now officially federal law that the federal government will not interfere with medical marijuana traffic and use in states where it is legal. This has been the law for over a year now.
2- Do you object to the idea that taking care of you health is a mitzvah? If you do, that would be surprisingly Karaite.
3- Where do you think the OU should publish their warnings about misused symbols?
3 – they should recall the product.
Does the OU have the legal ability to order a food manufacturer to recall their product?
Ask better: is it possible for the OU to sign a contract which forces the company to recall a mislabeled product?
And certainly shouldn’t tell people that they have no duty to anyone who doesn’t keep their newsletters in their pockets 24-6 to look it up before eating anything
That’s horrible. You should start a thread on the CR denouncing them.
What if the product with the mislabeled OU was produced by an outfit that has no contract with the OU?
In have a friend who has MS and uses medical cannabis although not when he is the US. Here in Israel the law is being relaxed. As of now it requires a special permit from the Ministry of Health and can only be prescribed by certain doctors and sold by certain pharmacies.
[the prescribing of marijuana]
However, I don’t understand why it needs a hechsher, especially in Chul where there is no issue of terumot and maaserot, as it is a medication and not just a food supplement like vitamins.
It’s definitely oversimplifying to say that it is stam unhelpful and stam illegal. My grandmother a”h was one of the first people in NY to get medical marijuana when in hospice care (just after it became legal) and it helped her immensely. It’s antinausea and somewhat mind-altering- really a blessing for someone who is on chemo and dying.
The question is whether R Genack would say that it’s a mitzvah if doctor-recommended in a state where it’s illegal. That’s interesting.
I’d say it may be mislabeling to kosher-certify it- but not because it’s illegal, because in some states it actually isn’t. Google New York State Medical Marijuana Program. If they can justify that it needs certification then they can definitely justify certifying it for medical reasons.
Oh, so I was doing a bit more reading about this-
OU is apparently only certifying products which a) are edible and non-smokable and therefore are more likely to need certification, in theory (though even then, not necessarily- but it’s not like it’s smoking) and b) are certified as legal sellers for medical (palliative) purposes by New York State.
The full law will go into effect in six days.
PBA- I don’t know the law on this- does this mean that all of the states in which marijuana is fully legal merely are condoning a federal-level felony and nobody decided to say anything? Forget about the medical stuff…
Whether you call the evidence anecdotal or scientific, the fact is that in California where medicinal Cannabis is legal, thousands of people have been cured of cancer (even stage 4).
You can google “Healing cancer with Cannabis” or “Rick Simpson” and see for yourself.
You can google “Healing cancer with Cannabis” or “Rick Simpson” and see for yourself.
You can entertain yourself by googling lots of things. You can Google “cannibis does not cure cancer”. You can Google “tomato juice cures cancer”. In fact, I tried a few random things, and they all had hits. Now I’m going to try “pizza cures cancer” and see what I get.
It does! I wonder which toppings work best.
Really, you need a better standard then googling and seeing what you get.
Davening heals cancer.
You googled that? 😉
I just created the Google result for that. Give it about 30 minutes.
I follow a drug company that is testing a drug which definitely benefits muscular dystrophy victims; it’s currently going through the FDA approval process. If a state were to decide to bypass the FDA and start letting the company sell the drug, the federal government would crack down on it so fast it would make your head spin. Yet, with a primitive narcotic drug that doesn’t actually help anyone, they turn the blind eye. The federal bias is definitely in FAVOR of pot.
If anyone saw certain areas of California about 5 years back (eg. Santa Monica), there was a booming business of doctors who only existed to prescribe medical marijuana. It seems to have since been shut down for a large part. Point is, the OU is totally out of bounds to say it’s a mitzvah if your doctor says it will help. There are all kinds of doctors out there. I don’t know if Popa was kidding, but I truly think this bodes poorly for OU. However, let’s be honest, the OU is our own little “too big to fail” entity for American Orthodox Jews.
It’s not only a drug. It’s a plant.
DY: Try googling my line now with quotes around them. (It entered the search results 17 minutes after I posted it.)
You can make choizik, but it doesn’t change the fact that people in California are being cured from cancer with medicinal Cannabis.
In Israel medicinal Cannabis is also legal (thanks to Litzman).
When we make choizik of others, it reflects how we feel about ourselves. It’s a sign of low self-esteem.
Neville, isn’t here a general mitzva to listen to one’s doctor, assuming that he is a qualified professional and not a quack who is self-certified?
Does anyone claim it is a cure or is that a rush to judgement here.
Apushatayid, just a few posts up, someone claims it.
(Then, when I pointed out how flawed his “evidence” is, he says I made choizek of it. Which I did, because it deserved to be made choizek of.)
The “Medical” use which states “allow” is supposed to be “compassionate.” In short, it makes miserable people happier.
Anyone taking Marijuana to cure cancer is an idiot.
Someone taking Marijuana because chemo is making them miserable is completely understandable.
OU’s theoretical violation of RICO is possible. However, RICO is a criminal statute that is notoriously inclusive. Prosecutorial discretion is what keeps RICO at bay. That and the fact that they’ll lose their most powerful organized crime weapon if they abuse it too much. OU’s decision-makers’ practical criminal exposure – particularly in light of the current federal enforcement regime – is negligible. However, should one fall on the wrong side of some federal prosecutor somewhere, beware (see eg Rubashkin). However, they usually don’t need RICO to get you if they want (see eg Rubashkin’s money laundering and stockyard act violation conviction).
As an aside, after a quick googling of marijuana and cancer this is the best scientific summary I have found:
“Cannabis: the evidence so far
Many of the studies put forth aren’t even about cancer.
Most of the studies were preclinical studies looking at cell culture models and mouse models.
Some of the studies found evidence that cannabinoids, under some circumstances, can actually stimulate cancer cell growth and possibly contribute to tumor progression.
Many of the studies involve trials of cannabinoids to treat cancer-related symptoms and side effects, not cancer itself.
Finally, the studies taken as a whole suggest that some purified cannabinoid agonists might be worth investigating further, but they do not provide a strong case for cannabis curing any kind of cancer.
Dr. Gorski concludes:
People are confusing Marijuana with Medicinal Cannabis.
There are two components to the hemp plant, THC and CBD. Marijuana is pure THC whereas Medicinal Cannabis is a combination of THC with CBD. The former is a drug, the latter is a cure.
People in California (where Cannabis is legal), have been cured of cancer (even stage 4).
Here’s a letter I received from the Cannabis producers in California:
Dear moi aussi,
We are very, very busy and working harder than ever with the cancer patients.
On January 2, or shortly thereafter, our book “Cannabis killed my cancer and keeps me cancer free” will come out at Amazon. It may take a few days after uploading it to Amazon to see it on the market. It will be a Kindle book that will be available world wide, including in libraries around the world.
We have an appointment on January 6 for a conference at the local Cancer Center. They can no longer ignore the successes and are incorporating cannabis into their treatment plan. Mike has developed such unbelievably successful strains, even we are awed.
We are especially happy about Chris, one of the patients we have been working with earlier in the year. He has colorectal cancer and had been given what he called “his expiry date,” which was to have been April 9, 2015.
Well, he just bought a brand new motor home for a cross-country trip with his beloved dog and his family.
His story would have been entirely different without the oil, and he will not be hesitant to tell everyone. When we first met Chris, cancer had spread all over his body, including to his liver and doctors had sent him into hospice because there was nothing else they could do. He was in terrible pain and resigned to die. Within 5 weeks after starting the oil he was in remission.
We are expecting 2016 to be a monumental year for our work. Mike has spent the whole last year developing strains, mostly high CBD, but also some outrageously potent THC strains. He says what he has in his office safe in seeds and oil could change cancer treatment around the whole world.
Oh, the company producing the snake oil sent a letter boasting how it works.
That should convince everyone.
DaasYochid,
You’re free to be cynical. Hopefully you will never need to be cured from cancer….
If ch”v I did, why would I use a treatment which was tested and not shown to work?
From the American Cancer Society:
There have been some early clinical trials of cannabinoids in treating cancer in humans and more studies are planned. While the studies so far have shown that cannabinoids can be safe in treating cancer, they do not show that they help control or cure the disease.
Relying on marijuana alone as treatment while avoiding or delaying conventional medical care for cancer may have serious health consequences.
I will note that they do consider it useful in relieving some of the horrible side effects of chemo.
Medicinal Cannabis has worked for thousands of people in California where it is legal. Unfortunately the drug companies are not interested it should be legalized in other states, but the lobbyists will win this sooner than later.
That has been asserted, not proven.
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