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if it gets to hard for you take a break recharge and resume later with strength
gud luck youll need it
only most of the time? sniffle sniffle what does that mean?
anonymisss: maybe this time we’ll actually be on the same flight! ahhhh cr memories!
maybe you can send the info to a mod, and s/he’ll get it to me… somehow or another…
I have no idea what you are all talking about but if you want to try and help someone who is OTD:
DO NOT try to make them religious
DO be someone they can trust and just talk to without needing to worry about religion becoming the central topic
and DO NOT ever (if your a sibling or something) tell your that kids parents about things you think they are doing wrong. (It will justt make them trust you and other people less and that kid will just learn to hide what they are doing better next time.)
You may not change anything now but in 5 years at least that kid will have a religious freind who they can trust .
If you think by getting freindly with them you will emulate them then dont avoid all contact with them. Try to limit it but DO NOT completly cut them out. (It will just make them hate religion. Trust me i know)
aussie, I think those were very good. question: (not being asked in a confrontational way) do you respect people who are religious?
kapusta: No
then how do the last two things fit in?
Anonymisss: do u mean does he respect ppl BC their relig? Or just respect religous people?
shaatra: you mean kapusta!
I was just wondering what everyone thinks, if this is correct or not. When having an eating disorder is that considered to be “off the derech”? I was always told in hs (when I had one) that I was oth but I totally disagree with that. I was totally religious, had yidishkeit questions but most people do… Am I just being naive and not seeing how it could be considered to be otd?
Welcome to the Coffee Room goner88. You ask a wonderful question. However, this topic is geared towards the emotional support of those who have close friends or relatives who are “Off the Derech”
The following topic is more suitable for your question:
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/treatment-of-teens-off-the-derech/page/3
YW Moderator-39
shaatra, I meant respect religious people.
kapusta: No
goner88: I dont understand your question
Basically what I’m asking is if someone who has an eating disorder is considered otd. People would tell me that I was but I truly (and I dont think I was in denial)think that I was not otd anytime in my life. I had the same questions that most teenagers do but nothing crazy! I’m curious to know what other people think…
BS”D
No, someone with an eating disorder is NOT OTD any more that chalila, someone who has leukemia is OTD.
I don’t pretend to know the first thing about eating disorders but what I do know is that eating disorders are diseases which can strike the frummest Beis Frime (yes that is the name of a school) girl just as much as the girl who is struggling with emunah and hangs out at the pool hall rather than going to class at her modern school.
aussie, than what/who do you respect? (I’m just curious)
I respect people who work hard to get what they want. I respect people for what they do not what they believe in.
I hear. Do you think living a torah life will lead people to live a more moral, fulfilled lifestyle?
ok, I’ll drop the issue now, you dont have to answer me. 🙂
…and its a good thread and I wouldnt want it to be closed.
kapusta: Maybe, but it doesnt mean its the only lifestyle
Just out of curiousity. How many of the people on here were actually OTD at one point? Because if you werent you really cant talk about something you didnt experience. I never tried drugs so i cant argue with someone who did and tell them that they are an idiot and should stop. Same for drinking, smoking, gambeling, etc… These are major addictions and unless you experienced them you cant pretend to understand them.
SO SO true, aussie. That ‘klal’ goes for anything else. If you never experienced something yourself, you can try, but you cant REALLY understand what its really like, and you should definitly not be judging the other person either.
i have also had someone very close to me go partially OTD and i can only repeat what people have said again and again.. love them, show them you care, and never yell at them that what they are doing it wrong etc… they know it already and are choosing to do it at that point in their lives. and another thing- when you walk with them in the street and they are dressed differently then you, dont be embarrassed. accept it. everyone knows soemone struggling with issues like these and they won’t judge you for it.
So true, nurse! Nice seeing you!
aussie,
I never said its the only but without knowing statistics, I would guess that that amount of “ultra” religious (any religion)are more moral than the average guy on the street.
What you say about first hand experience is true, but even though I may have never tried using drugs and I know someone who has, I still have to help them stop. You walk down a street and and from the distance see someone who fell into a pit. By the time you actually get to where he is, you run to pull him out but hes not interested. (ok, this may have some flaws because that just came to me in a second) Would you just leave him there? True, it may be painful (of some sort, or lets say for a minute that it is) to be pulled out but are you gonna leave him there for the rest of his life? Even though you never experienced drugs, would you let someone stand there and take it? True, you don’t know exactly what hes going through, but it doesn’t mean you wont stop him.
This is just my opinion, you’re entitled to your own.
kapusta, re helping them, if you can, please do. But you cant really understand what they are going thru unless you were there yourself.
Good point, aussie. As the wise man said: Never judge a man until you walk a mile in his shoes. That way, when you criticize him, you’re a mile away and you have his shoes.
I was OTD at one point, and found my way back.
The problem is what’s considered OTD. Different groups have different ideas about it.
Some chassidim think their kids who wear jeans and sneakers are OTD, even if they’re still keeping Shabbos, kosher, etc.
Some people think if a teen is talking to the opposite gender, even if they’re totally shomer negiah, is OTD.
In my case, I was really gone – didn’t keep Shabbos, kosher, or anything.
Feif Un – I don’t mean to get too personal, and you don’t have to answer if you don’t feel comfortable doing so, but what series of events took place to get to the point of finding your way? Was it an emotional feeling? An intellectual understanding? Combination of both, or perhaps something different?
How did you manage to come back (without any particular details). As someone who was there and now is B”H back amongst the frum world, maybe you can give tips as to how to approach someone who is about to be OTD or is already. It might be hard for you to do this and think back but it might be helpful for the rest of us. Only if you want and could- I dont want to pressure you in any way….
In order to get it, you’d have to know why I went off in the first place. That story probably wouldn’t get posted here (it portrays parts of the frum world in a bad light).
If the mods give the ok, I’ll post it.
Feif Un- I’m very interested in hearing the full story. I don’t know if you’re involved with kids at risk (as a result of “been there, done that”), but your story can go a long way in helping others.
Please try to email a mod so that he can work with you on revising the story for approval.
We appreciate your efforts and admire you for being a “ba’al t’shuva”- because that’s exactly what every single yid is supposed to be. ESPECIALLY during Ellul…
I don’t want my story revised at all. I still harbor a lot of resentment about certain things now, and it would bother me if some parts were taken out. I don’t mind sharing the story, but only if the whole thing gets published.
Mods, can I get an opinion here?
I was off the derech for about 4 years, from 14 to about 18. My issues were very different from the average OTD person though. For me, i pretty much wanted to simply give in to all my taivos, and judaism stopped me. I knew what i was doing was wrong, so i learned a lot, both jewish and scientific/philosophic works, in order to raise problems with judaism so i would have a “real” reason for being OTD. Baruch hashem, that life is far behind me now, although, some things were carried with me.
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