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This thread is for anyone who is currently dealing with a relative or close friend who is struggling with their yiddishkeit. It is exclusively for support, encouragement, and sympathy. Please do not hijack the thread by giving unwanted advice, causes, or other unwanted comments.
Thank you!
~a~
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what does OTD stand for
Off The Derech
They usually tell you to stand back and let things progress on thier own or to leave it up to professionals. Its hard to know if what you’re doing would help or harm the situation.
1. Daven. Daven for the other person and daven that Hashem grant you personal strength.
2. Do not go through this alone. Have a friend or a mentor who will lend an ear to you. Allowing you to let off some steam. It is difficult when a close friend or relative is going through this.
3. Do not beat yourself up. Do not live in the past. Do not think this is due to you.
4. Try to avoid confrontations with the friend or relative going through the struggle.
Case: Person walks into house in middle of Fri. Night seuda
Don’t: You’re late or Where’ve you been?
Do: Can I make kiddush for you? Care for some soup?
5. You still love the person, you just disagree with their current choice. Make sure you know the difference and make sure you convey that difference to them.
6. There will be situations where you make the wrong choice, and there will be times when all you options will be the “wrong” choice. Don’t let it get you down
7. There are other people who are in your shoes and there are people out there who can help you in this YOUR time of need. Utilize them
8. Don’t forget about yourself
There’s “off” and there’s “off”… it’s a very fine line, but there’s a very big difference. It’s not always as simple as the way JayMatt put it. Not always is the “right choice” through kindness/love. Mostly- yes, but again- not always. You have to really be on your toes and you have to daven, daven, daven. Only Hashem can give you the da’as to do the right thing.
(btw, I’m sure you know exactly what I’m referring to, you’re just not thinking about it.) Something happened (cant go into what) that I’m afraid will turn more people off. I hope I can keep in touch with her, a long distance relationship is hard.
Be supportive and loving, but also do not tolerate actual chillul Shabbos in your home. It is one thing to love the person and accept him or her, but you cannot allow it to be rubbed in your face, either, just as you cannot allow them to bring tarfus into your home and eat it in front of you off your own plates. there are line that cannot be crossed and they have to accept that, the same way they want to be accepted by you. Love the sinner, hate the sin, ONLY. Always keep the lines of communication open.
What seems OTD to some, is laughable to others. If your son is wearing jeans and a t-shirt – THAT doesn’t put him OTD (rebellious perhaps), though I am sure many people would view that behavior as being if not OTD, then on the road to OTD (and they could be very wrong about that and actually be marchik that person by treating him as if he were OTD). But if he is eating in McDonalds, smoking and driving around on Shabbos, then he is OTD and that must be faced.
try this: a long time ago, you said you where talking to that girl who was having issues? From what I understood, this would be the same thing.
I know, some people who are close with her/them are very strong, most are not. The worst part is she was just mentioning she was trying to get into a certain kiruv program. I dont want to think what could possibly happen if she would (c”v).
Thanx for the tehillim, everything adds up.
thanx, I appreciate it. Sometimes (more than sometimes) I feel like taking a hammer and banging them over the head with it. Or just screaming at them and say your a normal person, do you realize what you’re doing to your life and your future. I know some are strong enough and some are not. What will stop the next generation in 15-20 years from doing the exact same thing, if not sooner? She at least waited until she almost graduated school so maybe she has some inkling of guilt within her. What about the people who are already involved at 12 or 13? Good thing is, one of the “stronger” ones, has pulled away a little.
btw, I dont think she would consider herself OTD but shes heading there very fast, I dont think shes being mechallel shabbos or anything, but the davening stopped months, if not years ago. The biggie is her entertainment and the parts that shes interested in.
No-one but no-one can give or should give anyone else advise as every situation is different and it drives me nuts and hurts when well meaning people give their opinions.
I know and have dealt and am currently dealing with various people including some within the extended family who are not just OTD but way off the planet and it is extremely frustrating just to try and reason with them never mind trying to encourage them into yiddishkeit.
My approach is to stay well off the subject of religion, logic, reason and anything else that could result in confrontation, argument or further distance.
I am there when needed, answer questions when asked and am the first to throw my hands up when I cannot give a logical or scientific explanation. I have found the latest tactic of one member of the extended family is to ask me to provide a sound scientific reason in answer to many questions, some of which are just plain stupid. I am unable to do this and have steered away from a direct response as I am sure I am being tested to be pushed into arguments and rows which I am not prepared to do.
My home, family and heart is open to all of those with whom I deal. They know where to find me and I will never shut them out. For me this is the best I offer.
Avoiding the situation of arguments and taking a laid back attitude has helped as they can see they will not get me into confrontation and (I think) I am respected for this as I do not react to situations where I have been embarrased by them (but boy do I bite my tongue, hard!). I do not react in any way negatively but only positively.
They continously tell me how happy they are now – which translates to me: Methinks the man protesteth too much! the more they say how happy they are the more I just nod and smile.
This is very hard but works for me. I need to react like this to stay sane, hard as it is when you are pushed and coerced into confrontation.
But I have seen postive results in the end and so life goes on and so do I
I have no idea if this will give any of you any support or encouragement but I sincerely hope so. I have many grey hairs that people have given me over the years but in the end I think it’ll be worth it.
The only chizuk one can give is to be mechazek ourselves in bitachon. We have never seen such a generation where our children, nebich, are so discouraged and disgusted with society that they choose the street over a home. It so goes against the grain of our history that it can only be Hashem’s plan, and just like in any nisayon, Hashem tests us so that we grow in bitachon. We need to remember that children are not “ours”, rather they are a pikadon from Hakadosh Baruch Hu, given to us for safekeeping, but are actually “His”, and their journey in life is not dictated by us, but by Him. This is true for all children, all child rearing is siyata d’shmaya, it’s just so easy for one to forget when everything goes ok. How much chizuk a parent can get from the Torah with the maaseh of the children of Yitzchok Avinu, or even Chizkiyahu. Everything is His plan. May we be zocheh to the day that we understand it all, bimhera.
What happened?
uh oh… do I wanna ask?
Annoymiss: 🙁 what’s going on?
I really feel bad for you, I know about annoying sisters. But this sounds like its deeper than annoying… am I right? (please tell me no) Stay strong, I know you can do it! Really!
Anonymiss: can u explain more? Maybe I can help….I’m her age…maybe I can understand what/why she’s going through it
anonymisss: wow! lets talk! a brother of mine was troubled like this years ago, maybe i could be of some help! i know what it’s like! hatzlacha!
There is a person that I have heard of that is very helpfull in dealing with at-risk,OTD, or people who have problems with their emunah!
attention mods
; if he is known publicly and will not mind being known as he is well known may I say his name-the man that deals with OTD people?
The man to call his name is Rabbi Daniel Mechanich
anonymisss, whats the issue?
anonymisss: one of my older brothers! i was young & it was extremely painful to watch! the worst part was not knowing where he was at times i gatta say! b”h in time he straightened out!
Dont worry, things will straighten themselves out in time. I hope IY”H it’ll be MUCH sooner rather than later. Dont let her get on your nerves, its not worth it for you and it probably wont make her any better. I wish you lots of hatzlacha and peace of mind in fixing everything. Good night, keep smiling and I’m here if you want to vent. 🙂
btw, is she how you got started doing YES?
Mi k’amcha Yisroel!!!
WOW! everyone here is so amazing!
You know it’s said, that however much pain we are in because of our siblings/children/friends, so much more is Hashem!- it’s His children! His creations! And only when we can truly try to feel the pain of Hashems Schienah, then all pain can cease.
looks like we’re almost there…
and BasYisroel2, you are %100 right. He is an amazing person with amazing kochos and has helped MANY…
Anonymisss: yeah. So tell us…
anonymisss, I had no clue where you were going when you just mentioned your sister. Is she still in school?
Advice: (disclaimer, I have never had any need to use this advice, I’m not guaranteeing it will accomplish anything) Buy her a small present with a card for her b-day (or if shes 18 than graduation) and do something with her, maybe go out for ice cream or something just because your sisters and you wanna have a better relationship with her than you do now. When you see her ask her how her day was, ask her advice about any issue (problem students?) ask her help planning an end of the year celebration for your class, game, party etc. (I hope I’m remembering correctly that you teach) Talk about her talents, say loud when she can hear, maybe sara rivka rachel leah would know, have <whatever>
Now that we just went through all that, what caused her to go off?
I did have her in mind during davening today, (and you that you make it through in one piece)
🙂
anonymisss: how ya holding up today?!
anonymisss: i was in 8th grade when it started & he was in 11th grade! glad to hear your doing a little better today!
I had no clue you would say shes OTD. 🙂
Wait a little and apologize, a relationship is probably the best thing you can do (other than daven) at this point.
More Israel? seriously, a vacation might not be the worst idea… (and if you like you can take me along)
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