Orthodox Jews

Well, there’s a lesson for us to learn. We have to remember that the world is watching us, and even the smallest triviality can be blown way out of proportion. We have to remember that’s it’s not enough not to make a chillul Hashem, but we have to go out of our way to make a kiddush Hashem.

Let”s face the fact if you look at Klall Yisroel with dark glasses you will go in Ynets footsteps and find dirt.

But if you will go and were the Kedushas Levis-Barditshivar ravs glasses you will see only good in klall Yisroel.

The fact is there isn’t a nicer nation than Klall Yisroel.

What do Non Jews and Secular people do regualy? you name it evry sin steal adultry etc…..

The Jews are in Golus with these people do you expect them not to learn from their bad deeds?

Open any Orthdox Jewish phone book check the Chesed and Gemach listings. then ask all the pople posting comments anti Frum if they ever did any good act, they most probbly will have to think hard.

How much Tzedakah is given out by the Orthodox Jews? Greedy-NO WAY

So azi wake up smell the coffe!!

Jews are hated the world over. Orthodox Jews are the Jews’ Jews.

I do agree that the chillulei Hashem caused by a handful of ***** have soiled our reputation.

But as someone who lives in an Orthodox community full of chessed, Torah, and good middos, lets just say I fully disagree with their comments.

EDITED

One should remember that Ynet is an Israeli site, and many people in Israel (correctly or not) view Charaidim (not Orthodox, what they would call Dati) as people who sit and contribute nothing to society, take their tax shekels, blackmail the government, and most of all, don’t serve in the army and would mostly prefer an Arab government.

I think the comments would be directed at any seeming “Fifth column”, deserving or not.

Emes or not, you don’t get someone to see that it is emes by yelling emes, emes, emes!

To translate Rochelle for our English speaking brethren (not zoicha to the mamme loshon): “The truth hurts.”

getzel1:

Do you really think those things don’t occur in the “frum” world also? Guess what: they do. There happen to be many honest people who aren’t Orthodox Jews. There are also many low-lives who consider themselves Orthodox Jews (although they’re obviously not – you can’t be a low-life and be a frum Jew).

The problem is that because we’re supposed to set an example, people expect more from us. It also draws more attention when someone slips. It’s the old case of man bites dog.

sometimes we forget that we have to act normal in public (ex. saying kiddush lavanah smack in middle of the street)

Hear Hear! I don’t think we are patting ourselves on the back. Most of us know that we’re not perfect and we’re supposed to be doing something about that imperfection. But we definately shouldn’t think that we’re better than anyone else, because we’re just as bad or even worse than another person in some area that you might think is totally easy for you. This is what nekudat habachira is and its different for each and every person no matter how frum oo close to intermarriage and complete annihilation that you may be at at the presnt time.

Just another note about the above article mentioned in the orignal post

Forget the whole CNN vs FOX vs MSNBC debate. We have our own headline battles, though more subtle.

The woman detained was interviewed by the Jpost:

Frenkel said that as the women unrolled the Torah scroll and began to prepare to read, officials from the Kotel Foundation arrived and demanded that they leave the premises.

Frenkel said that the women agreed to roll up the Torah scroll and take it to the Robinsons Arch. But on their way out Frenkel, who was wearing a talit and was carrying the Torah, was seized by police.

I was pushed into a nearby police station and transferred to the main police station at Yaffo Gate, she said.

About 40 women who attended the prayer formed a procession and followed the police and Frenkel through the Old City to the Yaffo Gate where they congregated and sang songs until Frenkel was released.

The Jewish headlines are helping to divide an already divided people desperate for some kind of unity to face external threats.

To say that the Hareidi charities “are contributing more to the country than the whole IDF” ignores a number of things. Furthermore, charities like Ezer Letzion are not supported only by Hareidim. You post about Hatzolah and Zaka as if they are the only organizations of their type. Have a look around.

First of all, Laniado hospital. there are plenty of hospitals not under Hareidi auspices that service all clal Yisrael as well, and the same can be said for all the nonHareidi charities as well. Hareidim and datiim in general are not the only ones that contribute to charity.

In any event–no charity work is more of a contribution than service in the IDF. They are two different concepts. Like it or not, the Jews in Israel are under threat of attack. Hareidim as well as chilonim. The youth in Israel that serve in the IDF do so whether or not they agree with the policies of the current government, as it is recognized by all but the most obtuse that self-defense comes before any particular political orientation. These people literally risk their lives–and you think that performing charity work contributes “more to the country than the whole IDF”? Tell that to the parents whose children have paid with their lives to defend clal Yisrael. Keep in mind that those children do shmira at machsomim near towns like Emmanuel and Beitar– which are exclusively Hareidi towns.

EDITED

Whew!!!! Do you truly believe that? My Bubby never formally learned Torah in her life, and I guarantee you she was a very pious, religiously-observant woman, who raised two frum children, after being widowed at a young age. It may not be possible to know all the halachos without learning Torah many hours a day, but that is why we have Rabbanim of which to ask shailas. My husband is a Baal Teshuvah of over thirty-six years, and he has never sat in Yeshivah for many hours a day at any time. He is a VERY Torah-observant Jew. Your statement is not 100% accurate, though we do believe that an am haaretz cannot be a chosid. However anyone who has a rudimentary knowledge of kashrus, shmiras Shabbos, and hilchos Taharas Hamishpacha, all of which can be learned in sufficient amounts without ever learning for several hours a day, can be a shomer Torah u’mitzvos. It is not, as you say, IMPOSSIBLE.

oomis, maybe times have changed since your husband has become religious? I also know many people who are very shomer torah and mitzvot and they don’t learn for many hours a day. But let’s not forget that the generations are getting lower.

A Jew learning Torah L’shmo does more for Klal Yisroel than all the IDF.

MM, that is a lovely thought, but I would rather you had said that a Jew learning l’shmo does as much for klal Yisroel as the IDF. It is insulting to the IDF, many of whom are frum yidden who learn Torah regularly, to diminish their contribution and self-sacrifice, literally mesiras hanefesh, to ensure the safety of those Jews who are learning in E”Y l’shmo. If Hashem wanted us to believe that learning alone is worth more than defense of E”Y, then why do you think He would have sent Am Yisroel into any milchemes mitzvah or milchemes reshus? I believe both aspects are crucial to E”Y’s survival, and the Israeli soldier is to be strongly appreciated for the risks that are taken on behalf of others. Those who especially need to be makir tov to them are those of us who second guess Israel at every turn, from the safety of our homes here in the USA.

positiveaynayim: Maybe that’s the problem these days. Yes, people spend plenty of time learning, but not enough time living. They don’t put what they learn into practice.

A Jew learning Torah L’shmo does more for Klal Yisroel than all the IDF.

And a Jew learning Torah lishmo does more for Klal Yisroel than all the baalei battim combined.

But the baalei battim are still the ones who are to be thanked for providing for the Jew learning Torah, and for paying for the Torah education of his children. Similarly, the IDF is to be thanked for the security of the inhabitants of the country – irregardless of whether or not their success is due to all the Torah learning that their service enables.

Sounds fair – the IDF protects the country, enabling Jews to learn in relative peace, which in turn enables the success of the IDF. Should be a perfect relationship.

“That may be true. Nonetheless, ain somchin al hanes…”

Except that the fact that learning protects is not a nes – its perfectly natural according to the world that Hashem created.

Obviously we werent learning enough.

Mosherose said,

“Except that the fact that learning protects is not a nes – its perfectly natural according to the world that Hashem created.”

“Obviously we werent learning enough.”

Even if your premise is correct,

if the learning of R Elchonon Wasserman and all of the hundreds of thousands of talmidie chachomim and tzadikim who have been killed over the years wasnt enough to protect them, we would have to be extremeley arrogant to depend that our or anybody alive today’s learning to protect us by itself.

To paraphrase Psalm 127, “your watchmen are useless if G-d is not protecting your city”, IOW, just like a doctor does not perform the healing, Hashem does and the doctor is merely a vessel, the IDF does not do the protecting, Hashem does, and the IDF is merely the vessel. Studying Torah obviously helps in drawing down Hashem’s protection, and the IDF by itself, without Hashem, is powerless.

oomis1105- you are IRISH??

Lesschumras, Despite the rishonim you quoted, there was a lot of am haaratzus during those times. I believe the meforshim say that the Chelmnicki pogroms happened because of all the talking in shuls. One thing I do know is that Hashem is the ultimate dayan ha’emes, and no punishment comes to klal yisroel if they didn’t deserve it. this doesn’t mean we don’t mourn those killed. It just means we accept it.

Rav Avigdor Miller ZT”L writes that when he first went to the Yeshiva in Slabodka in 1932, the nearby city of Kovna (of which Slabodka was a suburb)had a bus leaving every half hour on Shabbos for mechallelei shabbos to go to work. By the time he left in 1938, the bus left every 5 minutes. One disadvantage to our way of memorializing Europe is that we think everyone in Europe was frum. This was not the case. Secular Zionists, Socialists, Bundists, and many other “ists” vied for attention with frum Yiddishkeit.

OP azi; “I can’t say I disagree with their sentiments.”

One you should do, is be dan L’kaf Zchus.

Most people look at yidden and say, they dress so weird

thay act so odd. Well those same people would jump up and say

wow, I am so impressed by your adherence to your peoples ways and you dress

immaculately, If it were a Amish person. As someone once mentioned.

People as biased and, Eisav Soneh L’yaakov.

Sometimes that goes for non-religious jews as well.

Yaakov representing the observant jew. etc..