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Orthodox Jewish neighborhoods in New York City are like deep red States. They voted for Trump in greater margins than most Republican states. The 48th Assembly District, which covers most of Borough Park, voted 69% Trump versus 23% Clinton. Very Orthodox Election Districts within Williamsburg and Crown Heights also majority voted for Trump, in stark contrast with the rest of the city (other than Staten Island, which was also carried by Trump.) A majority of Kiryas Yoel also voted for Trump according to New York State Board of Election records.
I heard from someone that most Jews in Israel who voted, voted for Trump.
LU: do Israelis vote by absentee ballot or is there another setup? I was wondering if it may still effect the popular vote outcome, or these votes have already been counted.
Joseph: It has been reported elsewhere that Lakewood was heavily for Trump. I haven’t heard about Monsey.
It makes sense. Most of the politically correct crowd considers us to be deplorable.
Given the trend in Obama’s foreign policy, it wouldn’t be good for Israel or Jews elesewhere. The free health care is good, but the strings attached might be a problem at some point. Economically there are really no “frum issues” distinct from the overall issues. Morally the Democrats are in a swamp.
I saw a poll being reported that overall (i.e. across the country) Orthodox Jews voted 56% for Hillary.
I wonder how that squares with this. Maybe in-town vs. out-of-town or ultra-Orthodox vs. Orthodox.
sorry, link removed
Interesting that you should mention Lakewood.
Lakewood gave Trump his highest margin vote in New Jersey. 50% spread between the candidates.
edit: I posted a link to a Nj .com website which had the statistics. Do a google search and you’ll find it.
“I saw a poll being reported that overall (i.e. across the country) Orthodox Jews voted 56% for Hillary.”
I have troubles believing that number.
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Joseph said, “Ultra-Orthodox constitutes 67% of American Orthodoxy, according to Pew Research.”
Not quite 67%, but close.
From Pew forum (dot) org:
” The Pew Research Center survey was designed to look at differences within the Jewish community, including between subgroups within Orthodox Judaism. About six-in-ten U.S. Orthodox Jews (62%) are Haredi (sometimes called Ultra-Orthodox) Jews,…. Roughly three-in-ten Orthodox Jews (31%) identify with the Modern Orthodox movement….”
Polls also predicted Hillary would win
There is no way to really know unless you look at the actual voting results and then you can guess
Mammele- Americans in Israel vote by absentee ballot. Supposedly they are only opened and counted if the vote is close enough to make a difference. Assuming this is true, then they would not be counted towards the popular vote.
“I saw a poll being reported that overall (i.e. across the country) Orthodox Jews voted 56% for Hillary.”
I might be wrong, but I think that a lot of Jews in Lakewood might not bother voting since their votes won’t count anyhow, as NJ is overwhelmingly Democratic and the Frum vote won’t change that. I’m not very into politics, but that is what I once heard someone say. If they had voted, I would assume the statistics probably would have changed overwhelmingly in favor of Trump.
Also, I think it’s possible that a lot of Frum people didn’t vote since they didn’t know who to vote for, but if they had to vote, many of them would have voted Trump. ( I would basically put myself in that category as well).
WinnieThePooh: Whoa I didn’t even realize that the US sends absentee ballots to other countries.
I guess people stationed at international military bases also vote absentee? Are there any frum Americans in the military?
LU: The same thing can be said about New York City, not just Lakewood. Many in our community who would vote Republican know that we don’t have the numbers to change NY and NJ and therefore feel that there vote will be wasted and don’t vote.
Curious what percentage of voters in the Coffee Room voted for Trump? I did.
“70+% of Lakewood voters voted Trump. The twenty-something percent that Clinton got was mainly from the non-Jewish residents.”
So the question is: What percentage of Frum people in Lakewood didn’t vote, and how much would this have changed the percentages of Orthodox voters overall who voted for Trump?
I only asked one person in Lakewood if she voted, and she said that she didn’t vote because her husband didn’t tell her to.
Hashemisreading – I didn’t vote, but I was happy that Trump won. I’m not sure why – I know little about politics – it was just my feeling. Maybe because I never liked the Clintons, and I feel he will probably be better for Israel (although there is no way to really know).
Someone told me that I shouldn’t say that I’m happy that Trump won, but rather, I am happy that Clinton lost.
I asked this before but I don’t think anyone answered. We don’t vote for a president, we vote for electors from our state. So how do American citizens who live in Israel and don’t have an American address vote?
H’isreading: I couldn’t bring myself to vote for either of the deplorable major party candidates. Since I live in a non-swing state, I didn’t have to vote for the less deplorable of the two, so I wrote in someone who seems to meet my criteria: a decent person, knowledgeable, and a philo-semite.
YY – I actually just asked someone here in EY that question. It seems that you vote with the last State you lived in.
It’s so funny how everyone’s assuming that frum people wouldn’t have voted for Hillary. I know plenty who did, even if they didn’t like her, in order to vote against Trump. Most people I know, though, either stayed home or voted for everything but president. Where I live went blue just barely- but there are for sure frum people who voted Hillary and nonfrum/non-Jewish people who voted Trump. I don’t assume one way or the other.
Voting is done with secrecy for a reason. One of the results of this process is that people tend to vote their conscience. I speak for those people I know, among them many who know much about politics, but also many who know very little. What was outstanding was the extent of corruption that became synonymous with Clinton, and basically extended her record of non-prosecuted crime from decades ago into the present. Aside from the claims and conjectures made by the Clinton campaign about Trump, there was nothing remarkable to brand him in similar negative light. An additional factor was the strong perception that Obama was not friendly or supportive to Israel, and was actually supporting Muslim terror. Clinton campaigned on the back of Obama, espousing his legacy, and vowing to continue and expand it. Everyone I know who voted for Trump was frightened to give a vote to support Hillary.
Lastly, the election was perceived as voting for the lesser of two evils. Do we vote against Hillary or Trump? Strange. That’s what I gleaned from so many conversations with voters.
Writersoul – assumptions are usually based on facts, as they were in this case. The assumption was not that no one would vote for Hillary (adraba, I think many people were very torn this election- as in torn by who not to vote for), but that more Frum people would vote for Trump than for Hillary (if they voted).
In my case, I was making that assumption based on a certain fact that I don’t want to mention online.
Yes, expatriots vote in the last state they lived in. I always wondered about the next generation- the children who get US citizenship because their parents are citizens, but were born outside the US and never lived there. As citizens they should have the right to vote. Do they take on the state of their parents? Which one? Actually, it’s a bit strange that someone who never lived in a country can vote; on the other hand, since laws made there do affect them, I guess they should have a right to chose the lawmakers.
My kids aren’t old enough to vote, but I have a friend with many voting age children. She is registered in Florida. She tried to help her kids get registered to vote but was not able to. It apparently could not be done in Florida. It may vary by state.
If someone knows more about this — a way that her kids could register to vote — please post about it and I’ll hopefully see it and pass it on!
I agree with the title of this thread. It is indeed overwhelming that so many frum Jews voted for DT.
Joseph thanks- that answered a long-standing question I had. It seems a bit unfair to those whose parents lived in states like Florida that they are excluded.
Winnie, it’s expatriate, not expatriot (that would be a former player for a certain Jewish-owned football team).
Joseph, thanks for what I presume is a snippet of NY law. I wonder what would happen with the grandchildren of those who were last domiciled in New York if the parents are U.S. citizens who never lived in the U.S.
YY- thanks for the correction, I am so used to thinking of it as ex-pat, that I forgot the real spelling.
In order for a child born outside the US to a US citizen to become a citizen, the parent must prove US residency for a certain amount of time. US citizens who never lived in the US cannot pass on their citizenship automatically to their offspring, so your question does not apply.
Thanks, Winnie. I looked it up, and it seems that if the parents are legally married and they’re both US citizens, there’s no prescribed minimum time of US residency (there is a minimum required time for “mixed marriages” — one citizen, one alien — and for out of wedlock children). Here’s what the State Department website says:
I’m not sure what it takes to “have a residence in the United States,” but I suspect that’s a pretty low hurdle.
Under today’s tax laws it may be advantageous for non-U.S. residents to NOT HAVE U.S CITIZENSHIP. Just thought some of you might need to know this.
If you make income in the US, you have to pay US taxes even if you are not a citzen and US citizens are also required to pay US income taxes if they live in another country (There are ways around this)
Zahavasdad, even if you make income outside the US and live outside the US you must report (assuming that you make more than the minimum that requires reporting) although there is a very high deduction for earned income and tax treaties with some countries (Israel is one of them) provide for protection against double taxation. Whether or not you live in the US there are reporting requirements for financial accounts if the total in foreign accounts is at least $10K. The Republicans have called for repealing both. BTW, these requirements also apply to green card holders.
On the other hand, there are advantages to ex-pats who give their children US citizenship as child care aid and scholarships are available, sometimes even if they are studying abroad. In addition, if someone renounces his citizenship he will not be able to receive Social Security benefits while living abroad.
For practical advice ask your local tax consultant or accountant.
YY- what you quoted supports what I said- at least 1 parent has to have had residency. Not necessarily so easy to prove residency by the way.
I agree with mammele that it is not necessarily a good thing to pass on US citizenship. Once upon a time, everyone wanted to do it to get child allowances. But that is not easy to get anymore, and it comes with a price- the US citizen has to file tax returns and FACTA reports, and if not, can be penalized.
Yehudayona…
” I wonder what would happen with the grandchildren of those who were last domiciled in New York if the parents are U.S. citizens who never lived in the U.S.”
The grandchildren would NOT be US citizens!
If you look at the US Citizens and Immigration Services website section on ‘Citizenship through Parents’ you will find the law requires that the parent have had lived in the USA or its territories:
Both parents are U.S. citizens at the time of birth,
At least one parent lived in the U.S. or its territories prior to the birth.
One parent is a U.S. citizen at the time of birth and the birthdate is on or after November 14, 1986
The U.S. citizen parent had been physically present in the U.S. or its territories for a period of at least five years at some time in his or her life prior to the birth, of which at least two years were after his or her 14th birthday.
If the U.S. citizen parent spent time abroad in any of the following three capacities, this can also be counted towards the physical presence requirement:
Serving honorably in the U.S. armed forces;
Employed with the U.S. government; or
Employed with certain international organizations.
Additionally, time spent abroad by the U.S. citizen parent while the U.S. citizen parent was the unmarried son or daughter and a member of the household of a person who meets any of the three conditions listed above can also be counted.
AND…
The genetic or non-genetic gestational legal mother is a U.S. citizen at the time of birth, and the birth date is after December 23, 1952 The mother had previously been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of at least one year.
The genetic father is a U.S. citizen at the time of birth, the mother is an alien, and the birthdate is on or after November 14, 1986
A blood relationship between the person and the father is established by clear and convincing evidence,
The father (unless deceased) has agreed in writing to provide financial support for the person until the person reaches the age of 18 years, and
While the person is under the age of 18 years one of the following occurs:
The father acknowledges paternity of the person in writing under oath, or
The paternity of the person is established by adjudication of a competent court, and
The U.S. citizen parent was physically present in the U.S. or its territories for a period of at least 5 years at some time in his or her life prior to the birth, at least 2 of which were after his or her 14th birthday.
If the U.S. citizen parent spent time abroad in any of the following three capacities, this can also be counted towards the physical presence requirement:
Serving honorably in the U.S. armed forces;
Employed with the U.S. government; or
Employed with certain international organizations.
Additionally, time spent abroad by the U.S. citizen parent while the U.S. citizen parent was the unmarried son or daughter and a member of the household of a person who meets any of the three conditions listed above can also be counted.
Yehudayona…
BTW>>>>as adoptive US Citizen parents of a child born abroad, she gained instant US Citizenship under US law, even though the adoption took place a few months after her birth.
I practice family law and immigration law comes into play so I have to keep up on these issues
CTL, apparently you replied to me earlier post before reading my later one. While it’s true that the grandchildren won’t be American citizens, if both parents are U.S. citizens and they’re married, one just has to prove residency with no apparent minimum time. I don’t know how easy or hard this is, nor do I know if the State Department website accurately reflects the law.
As regards overseas adoption, instant citizenship is relatively recent. When we adopted in 1995, we had to apply for citizenship and bring the kids to a ceremony of some sort.
Yehudayona……..
Yes, I replied to your first post
We adopted in China in 1997
The instant citizenship law (2000) was retroactive for children born after 1986
“Child Born Between November 14, 1986, and the Present
If at the time of your birth, both your parents were U.S. citizens and at least one had a prior residence in the U.S., you automatically acquired U.S. citizenship, with no conditions for keeping it.
If only one parent was a U.S. citizen at the time of your birth, that parent must have resided in the U.S. for at least five years, and at least two of those years must have been after your parent reached the age of 14.
I went into Probate Court with the adoption papers form China and our daughter’s Green Card and the judge ordered a CT Birth Certificate issued that listed China as place of birth. She was instantly a citizen. I used a copy of the law when she had to get a passport as the Post Office employees are clueless in the local branch.
CTL, did you go to court before the 2000 law went into effect? Does your daughter have a naturalization certificate? That’s what we used to get our children passports.
We went to Probate Court in summer 1997 for a CT Birth Certificate, she had a Green Card issued in China. When the law became effective in 2000 she was automatically a citizen. She did not require Naturalization papers.
I have a printed copy of the law that I took to Motor vehicles when she got her driver’s license because they insisted she needed Naturalization Papers since she was born in China. Local branch clueless, faxed the copy of the law and her Ct Birth Certificate to legal dept in Hartford, they got on the phone with me and I read them the riot act (helps to be a CT Lawyer) and they issued her license. Now all branches have a memorandum explaining the law and how it works.
We did not want Naturalized Citizen status for her. When she applied to college/nursing school there were certain scholarship awards that were not open to Naturalized Citizens or Aliens. Not a public institution, so not subject to the Federal Civil Rights guarantees based on nationality and alienage.
Fascinating discussion, YY and CT. Pity it is hidden in this thread..
Anyway, YY it is clear you have never been to the US Embassy in Tel Aviv applying for citizenship/birth certificates for your kids.
We had to supply dates of when we lived in the US, and brought along lots of proofs like college transcripts and voting registration cards, etc. There is also no guarantee that if you proved it for your first kid, you don’t have to prove it all over again for the next. They may not always ask for everything, but those were the official instructions at the time when it was relevant for us.
We might well be in for trouble brewing
All these shnuks/jerks are intending on running
(and many of unzereh are still in a state of la la land,because they’re somehow ours , more than all of Clinton’s friends?)
The one man who really would transform the country is out of cabinet
edited
A Whole new Government Paradigm is what the People desire
The System till now was withering
And a new ‘America’
Paradigm
Is this what the people voted for?!?!
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