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December 8, 2024 10:34 pm at 10:34 pm #2339362SQUARE_ROOTParticipant
akuperma said:
“If the Hareidim were running the yishuv in Eretz Yisrael,
as was the case in the pre-Zionist era,
we wouldn’t be war with the Islamic world.”===========================================
MY RESPONSE:
That statement could only be made by a person who
knows NOTHING about Islamic theology and Islamic History.===========================================
[1] Mohammed, the founder of Islam, who all Muslims must imitate,
ordered the beheading of 800 Jewish prisoners of war.Their orphans became slaves and their widows were used for immoral purposes.
This was more than a dozen centuries BEFORE the Zionists.
===========================================
[2] The Koran, chapter 5, verse 82, teaches that Jews [and polytheists]
are THE WORST ENEMIES OF MUSLIMS.Not just enemies of Muslims. but THE WORST ENEMIES OF MUSLIMS.
This was more than a dozen centuries BEFORE the Zionists.
===========================================
[3] The Hadith (an ancient Muslim holy book) teaches that
the Last Day cannot come, until ALL JEWS [100%] are killed by Muslims.The Hadith teaches that when The Last Day comes,
a rock will miraculously speak, and say:“MUSLIM!! A JEW IS HIDING BEHIND ME!! ARISE AND SLAY HIM!!”
This wicked story is repeated in The Hadith, seven [7] times!
This was more than a dozen centuries BEFORE the Zionists.
===========================================
[4] Mohammed’s last words before he died:“O Lord, KILL the Jews and Christians!”
SOURCE: Hadith Malik, 511:1588
This was more than a dozen centuries BEFORE the Zionists.
===========================================
[5] Rabbi Ovadiah of Bartenura said this, in a letter to his father in year 1488 August 15:“Jews in Muslim lands make themselves appear poor.
They go about like an impoverished, despised people,
with their heads bowed before Muslims.”CHRONOLOGY: Rabbi Ovadiah ben Abraham of Bartenura was
born around 1445 CE in Bertinoro, Italy, and died around 1515 CE in Jerusalem.SOURCE: Pathway to Jerusalem: the Travel Letters of Rabbi Ovadiah of Bartenura,
written between 1488 and 1490 during his journey to the Holy Land (page 40)
translated by Yaakov Dovid Shulman, year 1992 CE, 93 pages,
CIS Publishers, Lakewood, New Jersey, ISBN 1-56062-130-3This was said more than 400 years BEFORE the Zionists.
===========================================
[6] Abdul Aziz told this to Harold Dickson in [year] 1937 [CE]:“Our hatred for the Jews, dates from God’s condemnation of them
for their persecution and rejection of ‘Isa [the founder of Christianity]
and their subsequent rejection later of His chosen Prophet [Muhammad]…“Verily the word of God teaches us – and we implicitly believe this O Dickson
– that for a Muslim to kill a Jew [in war], or for him to be killed by a Jew,
ensures him immediate entry in Heaven and into the august presence of God Almighty.”Abdul Aziz made this statement to [Harold] Dickson as part of his
protest at the Peel Report, Britain’s 1937 plan to partition Palestine
into separate Jewish and Arab areas, thereby granting the
Zionists the basis for the independent state that they dreamed of…”SOURCE: The Kingdom: Arabia and the House of Sa’ud
(chapter 29, page 259) by Robert Lacey, published in year 1981
by Harcourt Brace Jovanovich, New York,
ISBN-10: 0006365094 * ISBN-13: 978-0006365099===========================================
[7] Robert Lacey said:“Arabians are conspiracy theorists, and not afraid to admit it.
Just as they believe in an active power for good intervening
daily in their lives, so they believe that evil and the powers
of darkness are manifest here on earth.A Westerner takes the credit for his own successes
and blames himself for his failures.An Arabian thanks God for the good and blames the bad
on evil influences beyond his control. It makes for a guilt-free existence.It also makes for deep suspicions, and nowhere is this more obvious
than in the Arab attitude towards the Jews.”SOURCE: The Kingdom: Arabia and the House of Sa’ud
(chapter 41, page 386) by Robert Lacey, published in year 1981
by Harcourt Brace Jovanovich, New York,
ISBN-10: 0006365094 ISBN-13: 978-0006365099===========================================
PS: Please feel free to copy these quotes for future reference.December 9, 2024 9:21 am at 9:21 am #2339391ujmParticipantThe reason for *all* anti-semitism, whether Christian, Muslim or left-wing anti-semitism is very clear. It is because we are in galus. And until we leave golus with Moshiach, it will continue.
That being said, Christian and European anti-semitism has been far far worse and much much much more violent and spilled far far far more Jewish blood than Muslim or Arabic anti-semitism, by a very very long-shot.
The numbers do not lie.
Whereas Jews were constantly facing Crusades, burning of the Talmud, blood libels, black death scapegoating, pograms, Tach V’Tat, numerous expulsions (England, France, Spain, Portugal, Germany, Hungary, Austria, Switzerland, Italy, etc.), Inquisitions, Dreyfus and most recently, and notoriously, the Holocaust of 6 million, the Jews in the Arabic and Muslim lands, by comparison (and that is key) were living mostly peacefully and safely despite sporadic exceptions.
December 9, 2024 9:21 am at 9:21 am #2339453somejewiknowParticipantwhat fool believes antisemitism is in the hands of the non-jews?
this is kefira 101.
The Jewish People believe in schar v’oneshDecember 9, 2024 9:21 am at 9:21 am #2339480jdf007ParticipantTo be fair, the poster you are mentioning also does not believe that most Jews are even Jews, which is in complete agreement with the Nation of Islam and other such groups that also do not believe that Jews are real Jews. Even lurking, I am tired of seeing such offensive posts. I have a very hard time believing there was rampant intermarriage in 1870’s white Russia and that everyone was did it.
December 9, 2024 2:08 pm at 2:08 pm #2339643smerelParticipantThe common anti-Zionist argument of the Arab world was better than the Christian world so therefore the state of Israel must be the cause of the current animosity to Jews is faulty for many reasons. (1) It assumes that the way a country acted in the past was the way they will act in the future. There were many countries that had long term up and down mostly benign relationships with Jews who turned on them. Take Germany as an example (2)That argument ignores that in general the Arab world post WWI has little resemblance to the Arab world before that. There were also much more wars going on in general in the Christian world than in the Muslim world at the time periods being ignored (3)It isn’t much different than the Zionist viewpoint during the heyday of pre state Zionism. (1910-1948) Being that at that point of time Jewish blood was being spilled like water and Jews faced serious discrimination even in the more benign countries (With Germany being the exception for most of that time period) the idea that only if we have our own country will we be safe made sense. Today the anti-Zionists adopted that same view in reverse saying if we DON’T have our own country we will be safe (4)It ignores the many times that Chazal say that in the period right before Mosiach , Klall Yisroel will suffer terribly from Yismoel. See for example the Pireky D’Rabbi Eliezer about the birth of Yismoel.
December 9, 2024 2:08 pm at 2:08 pm #2339706Neville Chaimberlin Lo MesParticipantUsually not in agreement, but Square Root is 100% right here. Antisemitism is explicit in the Quran. We are to them as the Amalekim were to us. You can’t appease a group who believes in a chiyuv of killing you.
“the Jews in the Arabic and Muslim lands, by comparison (and that is key) were living mostly peacefully and safely despite sporadic exceptions.”
This just isn’t true. The Muslims could not pull off something like The Holocaust, not because they wouldn’t love to, but simply because they are so bad at life. It’s just not even shayach to compare them to Europeans. They don’t get brownie points for being failures. If modern, western civilizations became as Anti-semitic as Islam (as Germany indeed did), they could do some serious damage. Uncivilized barbarians running around in loin cloths living in their own filth simply could not ever be as big of a threat, but that has nothing to do with their hashkafa being any less Antisemitic.December 9, 2024 2:08 pm at 2:08 pm #2339749commonsaychelParticipantThe main gripe that SR has is that the Muslim world allows multiple wives and even fat girls and short boys get married.
December 9, 2024 3:24 pm at 3:24 pm #2339790philosopherParticipantThe Muslim world, like the Christian world, has throughout the centuries risen and fallen in culture vs barbarism. In the last few decades, barbarism has taken hold (again) of the Muslim world. Jihadis have beheaded and murdered hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions, and displaced millions, of their own Muslim people and other minorities in the Middle East and Africa. They have carried out terrorism globally. To think that they’d be viscous to everyone, including each other, but they’d make exceptions for Jews, if not for Zionism, is ridiculous.
December 9, 2024 8:17 pm at 8:17 pm #2339933HaKatanParticipantEven Rabbi Dr. Soloveichik of Boston admitted that the cause of the immense Arab hatred towards Jews in the holy land is the Zionist idol and its “State”.
December 9, 2024 8:17 pm at 8:17 pm #2339946SQUARE_ROOTParticipantAs mentioned above, many Muslims believe that killing a Jew,
or being killed by a Jew, guarantees a Muslim that he [or she]
will go directly to Paradise after death, without needing
even one second of painful purification in Purgatory.
Millions of people know this.But there are five more points about Islamic philosophy
that are less known, that you probably never heard before:[1] Many Muslims believe that if a Muslim kills a Jew,
or is killed by a Jew, this guarantees automatic Paradise after death,
not only for the Muslim who died, but also for 70 of his closest relatives.This means that if a Muslim kills a Jew, or is killed by a Jew,
this guarantees that all of his parents, brothers, sisters, uncles,
aunts, cousins and grandparents are all guaranteed to
go directly to Paradise after death, without needing
even one second of painful purification in Purgatory.For this reason, many Muslim parents actually
WANT their children to be killed by Israeli soldiers,
as strange as it may seem.[2] Many Muslims believe that killing ONE Jew is
spiritually equal to killing 50 ordinary infidels [non-Muslims].Therefore, if a Muslim kills ONE Jew, his eternal reward
in Paradise is twice a great as a Muslim who killed
25 ordinary infidels [non-Muslims], because 2 X 25 = 50.[3] In Europe and North America, most people believe in
the desirability of “Win-Win Solutions”, which means that a
problem is solved in a way that benefits both sides, so both sides win.Unfortunately, “Win-Win Solutions” are NOT part of Arab culture or Muslim culture.
They do NOT believe in “Win-Win Solutions”.They believe that they alone should always win, and the infidels
[non-Muslims] should always lose, which often means that
the infidels [non-Muslims] are massacred and genocided into extinction.[4] Many Muslims believe that ANY compromise is shameful,
and in the Arab/Muslim world, shame is the worst fate possible,
even worse than losing a large amount of money.ANY compromise with Jews is most shameful of all.
How does this effect Israel’s ability to compromise with Muslims?
[5] Every time Jews offer land in exchange for peace,
Muslims misinterpret this as a public admission of guilt.Stated another way, every time Jews offer land in exchange for peace,
Muslims misinterpret this as Jews publicly confessing that
“they stole Palestine from Muslims”.More than 70 years after 1948, most Israeli leaders and
Jewish leaders do not know this, and never will know this.===========================================
Unfortunately, I do not have any sources for this valuable information.
If anyone could find the sources for this valuable information,
it would certainly be appreciated. Thank you.December 9, 2024 8:17 pm at 8:17 pm #2339947SQUARE_ROOTParticipantAs mentioned above, many Muslims believe that killing a Jew,
or being killed by a Jew, guarantees a Muslim that he [or she]
will go directly to Paradise after death, without needing
even one second of painful purification in Purgatory.
Millions of people know this.But there are five more points about Islamic philosophy
that are less known, that you probably never heard before:[1] Many Muslims believe that if a Muslim kills a Jew,
or is killed by a Jew, this guarantees automatic Paradise after death,
not only for the Muslim who died, but also for 70 of his closest relatives.This means that if a Muslim kills a Jew, or is killed by a Jew,
this guarantees that all of his parents, brothers, sisters, uncles,
aunts, cousins and grandparents are all guaranteed to
go directly to Paradise after death, without needing
even one second of painful purification in Purgatory.For this reason, many Muslim parents actually
WANT their children to be killed by Israeli soldiers,
as strange as it may seem.[2] Many Muslims believe that killing ONE Jew is
spiritually equal to killing 50 ordinary infidels [non-Muslims].Therefore, if a Muslim kills ONE Jew, his eternal reward
in Paradise is twice a great as a Muslim who killed
25 ordinary infidels [non-Muslims], because 2 X 25 = 50.[3] In Europe and North America, most people believe in
the desirability of “Win-Win Solutions”, which means that a
problem is solved in a way that benefits both sides, so both sides win.Unfortunately, “Win-Win Solutions” are NOT part of Arab culture or Muslim culture.
They do NOT believe in “Win-Win Solutions”.They believe that they alone should always win, and the infidels
[non-Muslims] should always lose, which often means that
the infidels [non-Muslims] are massacred and genocided into extinction.[4] Many Muslims believe that ANY compromise is shameful,
and in the Arab/Muslim world, shame is the worst fate possible,
even worse than losing a large amount of money.ANY compromise with Jews is most shameful of all.
How does this effect Israel’s ability to compromise with Muslims?
[5] Every time Jews offer land in exchange for peace,
Muslims misinterpret this as a public admission of guilt.Stated another way, every time Jews offer land in exchange for peace,
Muslims misinterpret this as Jews publicly confessing that
“they stole Palestine from Muslims”.More than 70 years after 1948, most Israeli leaders and
Jewish leaders do not know this, and never will know this.===========================================
Unfortunately, I do not have any sources for this valuable information.
If anyone could find the sources for this valuable information,
it would certainly be appreciated. Thank you!December 9, 2024 8:17 pm at 8:17 pm #2339959Neville Chaimberlin Lo MesParticipant“The Muslim world, like the Christian world, has throughout the centuries risen and fallen in culture vs barbarism. In the last few decades, barbarism has taken hold (again) of the Muslim world.”
It’s not comparable. In an anthropological sense, Nazi Germany was still a civilization as evil as they may have been. Groups like ISIS and Al Queda are simply not; they are more comparable to hoards of barbarians that sustain themselves on constant killing. Even back in the “good old days” when Iran was under the Shah before the Islamists took over, it’s not like Iran was comparable to England.
“They have carried out terrorism globally. To think that they’d be viscous to everyone, including each other, but they’d make exceptions for Jews, if not for Zionism, is ridiculous.”
100% agree. This thread shows the dangers of Chareidim trying to argue against Zionism in a “logical” or political way. Stick to the script: chazal say it’s a problem, so it’s a problem. When people start trying to apply political logic to justify anti-Zionism, they end up integrating this leftist nonsense about how Muslims used to be so nice.
December 9, 2024 11:34 pm at 11:34 pm #2339998philosopherParticipantNeville, the culture in a large part of the Muslim world today is violence, violence and more violence. Perhaps, the exception is in countries like the UAE, but in Syria, Yemen, Iraq, etc. and of course, in Gaza and the West Bank, the culture is all about holy war between everyone and anyone, even between themselves.
December 9, 2024 11:34 pm at 11:34 pm #2340014KuvultParticipantNeville Chamberlain,
“We are to them as the Amalekim were to us.”
It always amazes me how Yidden instinctively understand we don’t follow the literal Torah. But instead we follow the modern day interpretation of the Rabbanim.
There are a lot of smart Jews. Why aren’t the Rabbanim calling to raise millions of dollars to isolate the “Amalek” gene so we can perform this Dioraisa mitzvah?
The truth is we have no interest in performing this mitzvah at the current time. We avoid it by claiming 1. We don’t know who Amalek is though with it being Biblical we SHOULD be, but are not Machmir.
2. A more modern approach is Amalek is the evil inside of us we need to get rid of. Either way no Jew that I know is working on a plan to fulfill this Mitzvah.
The Christians of today are different than those of yesteryear. In the past they believed they were doing a big Mitzvah converting Jews by any means necessary. Today it’s all about love, only love. They donate to Jewish causes, they help Jews, they try to convert us through “Good Works”
This can (& G-d willing soon) & will happen with Muslims as well. Taking the LITERAL text of the Torah, Xtian Bible &/or Quran & claiming this is the final word of G-d which is not subject to interpretation by their respective religious leaders & scholars is unsophisticated thinking. If we do it constantly so can other religions. -
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