- This topic has 264 replies, 30 voices, and was last updated 8 years ago by .
-
Posts
-
Ubiq -“IT should go without saying that as always Health is simply wrong.
There are three macromolecules: Carbohydrates, Proteins and nucleic acids (some include lipids as well).
Nucleic acids include DNA, mRNA, rRNA and tRNA.
Now if nucleic acids are macromolecules, and mRNA is a nucleic acid (both true) then obviously mRNA is a macromolecule.
Both are arguably correct in the question. But mRNA is more specific and perhaps more correct”
You’re posts are getting funnier & funnier!
But you made a simple mistake! mRNA is part of a macromolecule, not one itself!
From the University of Utah –
“There are three major types of biological macromolecules in mammalian systems.
Carbohydrates
Nucleic acids
Proteins”
This is another reason why I or s/o can’t give free advice, because of all the ones that come to disagree!!!
So it becomes a waste of time!
Hey Sparkly!
I am a nurse and had to take all these courses!
A & P is an incredible class! Torah is so evident with regards to the human body. When we learn about how our eye functions and how light refracts off the lens and hits cells in the back of our eye that flip the picture and send the message along nerves (routes) to our brain, it doesn’t get more clear than this that Hashem must have created us. The human body is so intricate and looking at it from a health care perspective it is incredible that not more people get sick!
Orgo is a hard class, that is a fact. This is mainly due to the memorization aspect of it. However if you are motivated, pay attention in class, work hard, study and pick up a good work ethic you can do anything!
So yea, you can find Hashem and Torah in anything you do as long as you are always out searching for Hashem. Hatzalacha!
Health
allow me to help
You quoted accuratly from the university of Utah “There are three major types of biological macromolecules in mammalian systems.
Carbohydrates
Nucleic acids
Proteins”
One hundered percent correct, As I said : “There are three macromolecules: Carbohydrates, Proteins and nucleic acids… “
I am not sure why you think this is a contradiction?
Please let me know which point confuses you:
a) mRNA is a nucleic acid.
b) Nucleic acids are macromolecules. (As you correctly quoted from both me and the University of Utah)
Therfore:
c) mRNA is a macromolecule.
This is basic logic, here is a a classic example:
a) all men are mortal
b) Socrates is a man
therefore
C) Socrates is mortal
“You’re posts are getting funnier & funnier!”
I’m glad youre starting to enjoy! (dont worry I havent forgotten about our other fun thread, Im searching for your court case)
Sparkly & Ubiq -“then obviously mRNA is a macromolecule.”
Another proof that I’m right is from Britannica.com:
“messenger RNA (mRNA), molecule in cells that carries codes from the DNA in the nucleus to the sites of protein synthesis in the cytoplasm (the ribosomes).”
It says molecule, Not Macromolecule!
Ok, so I’ve taken Anatomy and Physiology 1 and 2 and Organic Chemistry 1 and 2.
Basically – A&P is fantastic! Yes, you learn a lot of material but because it is basically about your body which you are fairly familiar with, it is easy to memorize and understand. It’s fundamental for any medical job and even for non medical people, it is a great class because you understand your body and its function and will give you a greater understanding when dealing with regular function and illness. Case in point – Hirschprung disease. When the doctor says, “the problem is in the baby’s colon” – you have learned where and what and the function of the colon.
From the Torah aspect – so important. You will have a much harder time taking your body for granted and gain an indispensable appreciation for the magnificent and intricate body Hashem has designed for us and that we barely scratch the surface of understanding its design and purpose.
orgo – absolutely awful
To those yechidim who will say “huh? I loved orgo! Best class ever! How could anyone have a hard time with it?”…consider yourselves blessed for you are not of this earth. You may also have chosen not to get married mid semester like I did, which may have helped things.
For those engaged girls going for OT/PT/PA and are in that situation, it can be done but very in advisable.
Like another poster said – it’s like memorizing a cookbook and all the recipes except having to know exactly which slice of onion will touch either the pot, the oil or another onion to continue the reaction.
If you have to, definitely arrange your schedule to let orgo be your main focus for the semester if you can.
I’m in PA school now, took it as a requirement and never found it to be helpful. I think it’s a “weed out” course for college admissions people.
Torah connection – I haven’t found any but posters feel free to let me know. The intricacies are too detailed and are too difficult to relate to everyday Iife to have an inspirational element but you never know.
Ubiq -“(dont worry I havent forgotten about our other fun thread, Im searching for your court case)”
Maybe you should ask a different lawyer to help you, obviously the one you asked wasn’t any help!!!!!
If you are just starting orgo 1 then you are probably learning functional groups or difference between alkane/Alkene/Alkyne or something to that effect. The torture will come. I suggest index cards and lots of them.
I will also give my support to saying that the answer is obviously mRNA and not ‘nucleic acid’ as Health said. The question is asking for the specific type of nucleic acid, and mRNA is translated into protein in the ribosome. As ubiquitin and others pointed out, this should be very very simple and basic stuff to anyone that is really in the practice of medicine.
Health
“It says molecule, Not Macromolecule!”
All macromolecules are molecules (It is in the name macro is greek for large a macro molecule is a large molecule. RNA which is a string of smaller ribonucleotide bases (i.e. smaller molecules) is a macromolecule. IT is of course a molecule too)
Please let me know which point you disagree with:
(ive restated it since there is arguable in inaccuracy in my first iteration)
a) mRNA is string of nucleic acids.
b) a string of Nucleic acids is a macromolecules.
Therfore:
c) mRNA is a macromolecule.
(I changed this because A monomer for example Glucose is arguably not a macromolecule. However the polymer sucrose (Glucose+fructose) is without question a macromolecule, though of course it is a molecule as well.
Similarly an isolated nucleotide like Uracil might not be a Macromolecule. But a polymer like mRNA is without question a macromolecule (again, in addition to being a molecule).
To e/o it looks like the question is asking about protein synthesis. If that’s the case, I was mistaken and the answer is mRNA, not Nucleic acids!
But unfortunately for you Sparkly, I got it half right, so no more answers from me unless I get payment.
But it looks like plenty of posters here will do it for free!
FFG -“As ubiquitin and others pointed out, this should be very very simple and basic stuff to anyone that is really in the practice of medicine”
Can I ask you a question? Your position is that you can’t practice medicine if you forgot something in biology? Wow!
Do you practice medicine? If yes, I’ll ask you a question in your specific field and we’ll see how much you know! I won’t limit it to one question!
Health
“It says molecule, Not Macromolecule!”
A great example proving how you can’t get a true understanding of a topic from googling.
A molecule is a combination of atoms. A large combination of molecules is a macromolecule.
Saying that mRNA is not a macromolecule because nucleic acids are macromolecules, is like saying that proteins are macromolecules, but not keratin or tubulin or hemaglobin or pyruvate kinase (all are examples of proteins).
Or in non-scientific terms:
John is a ___ (profession): Doctor would be a correct answer, but so would radiologist or neurosurgeon or podiatrist.
Health- “But you made a simple mistake! mRNA is part of a macromolecule, not one itself!”
I don’t know what you are referring to- what part of what macromolecule is mRNA? Or in other words, what are the other parts of the macromolecule of which mRNA is allegedly only a part?
Just change the word macromolecule to “very large molecule” and see if this statement still makes sense.
Let’s get back to the basics again, without relying on Google.
nucleic acids are polymers of nucleotides, i.e macromolecules. these come in 2 flavors- ribonucleotides and deoxyribonucleotides, the difference being an OH or an H group on the ribose molecule within the nucleotide. If it is a polymer of the latter, then it is DNA. If the former, it is RNA. There are many kinds of RNAs with different functions. Viral RNAs encode genes, like our DNA does. mRNA is the carrier or messenger for the protein-code; it is transcribed from DNA, and is used by the ribosome to translate proteins. rRNA is the RNA component of the ribosome. tRNAs bring an amino acid to a specifc codon on the ribosome. Then there are “new” types that you will not find in a basic biology text-book, but of which researchers are becoming more aware of their importance: miRNA and siRNAs (short stretches of RNA that regulate gene expression), lncRNAs, snRNAs, asRNAs and many more.
Winnie the Pooh – I don’t know who you are lecturing to!
I already knew that you disagreed with me previously.
I was just trying to answer a question for Sparkly.
Yes, I made a mistake, but I don’t need a lecture in Bio!
Why don’t you offer your valuable knowledge to Sparkly?!?
Sorry Health for pushing the point and lecturing. I posted before your concession came up. But I did think some pointers might be helpful to others following the thread who have no idea what we are talking about. It wasn’t meant only for you, sorry if it sounded too harsh.
Funny how a thread titled orgo and A&P has already gone onto the 3rd page.
Sparkly -“Health – you were insisting that you were correct.”
So what? It’s common place for posters to never admit that they’re wrong!
Eg. Look at the posters in this topic:
“Frum people who are unfortunately voting for Hillary Clinton.”
Kleenex, Scotties, Aspen, Silktouch.
Some tend to fall apart more easily, and feel more like sandpaper, but they’re cheaper, so each person has to decide what’s important for him/herself.
Though Aspen and Silktouch are about the same
Sparky – my Orgo final had the question “Synthesize alanine with a radioactively marked C2 carbon, given certain starting materials.” That’s it.
The answer to the question you ask about tissues is not taught in either of the classes you ask about but it only understood at the junction of the two. The more you understand, the more wonderous Creation becomes. ?????? ???? ????” ???? ??, ??”
Epithelium lines body cavities and are selectively permeable.
Connective does exactly what it sounds like,it connects organs and other tissue.
Muscle allows for movement by a series of contractions.
Nervous makes up the nervous system and allows the body send and receive electrical and chemical signals to and from the brain.
Question for you Sparkly,
Do you know the different sub categories of these tissues, and how to identify them?
Sparkly: My pleasure, consider reading “scaring me” as informing you 🙂
As for epithelial/connective/muscle/nerve – you will probably see slides of them on your test, I think your lab test if ur taking A&P lab, you will have to name the tissue by the cells so remember what they look like. You probably also need to know function of them as well.
Epithelial tissue – lining of organs, protection, insulation, outer skin. Think lining of stuff. You’re gonna have the breakdown of simple columnar, stratified, squamous, pseudo stratified, ciliated, blah blah blah so know that.
Connective – adipose looks like soft clouds, hyaline cartilage is messy and crowded looking, There’s a few different types of cartilage so be able to recognize them, can’t remember all of them. Function: connects stuff? Oh and bone is CT also, very distinctive with the rings and rings of circles (lacunae).
Muscle – skeletal – stringy looking, with the borders in between the muscle cells. And little dots to show the nucleus – thicker than smooth. Cardiac – looks like skeletal but it branches out. Smooth – thinner, no striations, lighter usually. Function: strength, moves stuff
Nerve – you can’t miss it. You see the fried egg look of the nucleus and the long tail of the axon. Electric connectivity.
Make index cards or matching or if you are walking on the street look at someone and think to yourself what the names of their body parts. Slightly creepy so be careful, maybe ask a friend to stand still for you instead, but it’s a great way of remembering where everything is. Also, on the test you always have your own body so if you can remember the names of each structure by naming parts of your body, that will help you.
why are you doing this to yourself? What are you going for? You might not really need it.
Hi, I’m borrowing Some Common Sense’s account to offer some advice.
Sparky – you’ve chosen a very ambitious goal for yourself. Hatzlocha rabba! Be prepared, none of the schools that I know of are not coed and all (Touro being the one exception that I know of) have classes on Yom Tov and expect you to study on Shabbos. It’s very manageable but just be prepared to have “the religious discussion”. Yichud comes up every so often but not much. Also note, you will be asked to work with students from the opposite gender and saying no will almost instantaneously cause problems.
As a practicing pharmacist myself, let me offer my own view of A&P and Orgo and offer some advice. ironpenguin and the others are correct – A&P and Orgo are very intense courses with wildly different skills necessary to excel. A&P requires a procedural memory allowing you to track the various physiological process across the anatomical structures. Orgo is almost entirely theoretical – it requires memorizing many reaction, the physical forces driving the reaction and their requisite conditions (cofactors, coreactants, catalysts and environments) with the ability to think/apply the processes to reach your destination – it has very little to do with memorizing a process; it is about applying facts and constructing a process. It’s the thinking and applying that throws off many people because most of collegiate courses are taught to memorize, not to apply.
As a student pharmacist and as a practicing pharmacist, anatomy and organic chemistry synthesis is almost entirely useless (unless you enter research). However, physiology and the concepts of organic chemistry become absolute requirements. First semester is a course in biochemistry that assumes you know all the concepts of organic chemistry on your fingertips. Our field is derived from biochemistry – the chemistry of biological systems. So Some Common Sense is correct – the exact differences between tissues is determined on a molecular level. Why are tendons easy to snap but a rope of human hair the same size can hold many pounds? They’re both connective tissues but the difference is determines at the biochemical level.
All bioactive substances are affected by many process in the body. Be it hepatic action, renal clearence or protein binding, the pharmacist must understand all of this. Physiology courses become critical. How does the kidney work? Why do some drugs work with a decreased renal function and why do some become hyperactive and still others become inactive? Physiology answers that and you must know it because you will be asked about it.
Some general pharmacy advice – a very strong majority of pharmacist enter the community and work in stores. You will be administering vaccines (read: injections) and asked about Over-The-Counter products. From medicated shampoos to foot creams and everything in between, patients will look to you for advice. Even family, neighbors and friends will call you asking for advice – I relish the opportunity to teach and help people help themselves – to each their own. You will need to know for what and how these are used; you will be asked to offer recommendations using these medications – happens every day. Find a job in a local pharmacy – it will serve you very very well. During school, you will be asked brand/generic names for drugs and be required to tell them apart. What is the generic for Lipitor (the world famous cholesterol medication)? What is the difference between Miralax and Mirapex? Hydralazine and hydroxyzine? How do they work? What are they used for? Dosing? Contraindications? Adverse events? Flash cards and memory games become very important.
Don’t get me wrong – you will have a wealth of knowledge at your disposal such that you can extemporaneously teach a high school course in biology without a lesson plan or even refreshing your memory. Maybe 5 minutes to figure out what you want to say but that’s it. Don’t let that run away with you – looking down other health professionals from that tower of knowledge will net you a miserable situation almost immediately. I’ve seen in happen. Medicine is a very small world.
Patient manner is also very important. Ask any pharmacist – they can tell you about patients who were nice, rude and anywhere in between. An enormous amount of patience and self-control are necessary; a nice helping of a sense of humor always seems to follow. Be short with a patient or a holier-than-thou will fly as far as a lead brick in terms of being able to get a patient to trust you and follow your advice. Remember, patients will take your word as the absolute truth and may, many times, take your word over that of their physicians. We have a great responsibility as we are their last line of defense from inadvertently hurting themselves.
In summary, focus on doing well in the prerequisite courses as you will need the knowledge (except physics – kinetics, mechanics, sound, light, relativity have extremely limited use in pharmacy and is only something you would need if you went into formulation development in industry). Find a job at a pharmacy – chains will hire you as an intern. Depending on the state in which you live, you may be granted certain authority above that of the regular employee. Develop the specific character traits you will need. Be prepared to work hard – the end is well worth it. You’re walking into a field that possesses enormous possibilities to prevent harm and to help people. We have a tremendous responsibility. Hatzlocha rabba on your decision!
Some common sense -“What is the generic for Lipitor (the world famous cholesterol medication)?”
What’s the most worrisome S/E of Lipitor?
No, I don’t take it.
Sparkly -“Health – take what?
You have to read the whole post, before you question it!
Sparkly: “since im VERY BAD at concepts is there any way to memorize and get away with it or will the understanding like chemistry, math, and physics still harm me? “
Memorization is needed for parts of orgo, but only so that you have the material in your head so that you can the apply your logic/understanding. You will not be able to get away with it just by memorization. I am afraid that if you found g-chem hard, then you will find orgo even harder, especially when combined with A&P and calculus, which obviously needs math/logic skills. Are you sure this is really what you want to do? Lately you don’t sound as positive as you did earlier on in previous posts.
Again, I’m borrowing Some Common Sense’s account.
Health,
Lipitor = atorvastatin calcium
Mechanism of action: 3-hydroxy-3-methylglutaryl-coenzyme (HMG-CoA) reductase inhibitor
Indications: hypercholesterolemia, cardiovascular protective agent. Contraindications: active liver disease, pregnancy, lactation, allergic and unexplained increases in LFT at least 3x ULN
Pregnancy category: X
Dosing range: 10 – 80mg once daily with or without food
Most common adverse events: increase in LFTs, myopathy, myalgia | Evidence of modulation of side effects by CoQ – 10 / ubiquitin is spotty and uncertain.
Drug interactions: CYP3A4 metabolised (how many drug interactions can you derive from this statement, Health?)
There are several others in the class. Look at the ATP IV guidelines (found on NIH website)- you may very well end up taking it (they’re class effects of all the HMG CoA inhibitors).
Likewise, for anyone worried about statin-induced rhabdomyolysis, do you take ibuprofen (Do you have any idea how many doses consumed a year)? Naproxen? Meloxicam? Piroxicam? Aspirin? Ketorolac? Do you know what the most serious adverse event associated with NSAIDs are?
Sparky, concentrate on the courses you will need most. You need not re-take Gen Chem II if you can focus and do well on the subsequent courses. Again, the concepts are important – you will not be using the equations in Gen Chem very often but you do need to know all the concepts.
In terms of your course schedule in pharmacy school – in undergrad, you’re taking a few courses in different tracks of study – one in chem, another in bio, a third and fourth in some elective or core. In pharmacy school, you are still taking electives and unrelated course but your primary focus is on three sequences – pharmaceutics (drug formulation), pharmacology/medicinal chemistry (how, exactly, do drugs work and comparison of drugs in similar classes) and therapeutics (how to use drugs).
Pharmaceutics tends to be heavily based in mathematics and does require understand of concepts and being able to follow the purpose of an equation. Pharmacology is founded on physiology and requires a strong understand of the subject. Medicinal chemistry is based on biochemistry and requires a good deal of memorizing.
Therapeutics is about knowing mechanism of actions and treatment guidelines. Included in this is a knowledge of antibiotic spectrums. You can either memorize your way through the sequence (which does work but fails rather spectacularly when you need to apply something) or understand what is taught and deriving the treatment guidelines (difficult to do as most people don’t think this way).
The trend now is to have these courses line up so that at any given time you are discussing the same drugs. You will get very sick of hearing about certain drugs. So to answer your question, there is no comparison as there is a complete paradigm shift of course study. This is not easy street and you will spend a lot of time studying.
Some common sense –
You didn’t answer the question; all you did is copy/paste from the drug insert!
“What’s the most worrisome S/E of Lipitor?”
Anyways, I’ll give it to you because you came close!
Rhabdo.
“Likewise, for anyone worried about statin-induced rhabdomyolysis, do you take ibuprofen (Do you have any idea how many doses consumed a year)? Naproxen? Meloxicam? Piroxicam? Aspirin? Ketorolac? Do you know what the most serious adverse event associated with NSAIDs are?”
Btw, I take Pravachol & tons of NSAID’s and I don’t B’H have any problems!
I’m not Some Common Sense – I’m borrow the account.
Health, I’m not going to argue over trivialities but to offer advice to those who want. My point was simply that the information came from memory and was a small example of what sparky will be learning. I’m most happy for you that you’ve been taking Pravachol with “tons” of NSAIDs and have had no deleterious effects. You can proudly join the many millions of people worldwide that have had the same experience.
Now that you’ve decided to bring it up – would you like me to take a few accurate guesses at your health conditions and other personal data based on that bit of info? I didn’t think so.
Did you want to play drug information some more?
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.