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aries2756, it is untrue to state that Reb Moshe and Rav Pam had a practice to open the door for their wives. I’m sure they’ve done so many times, but it wasn’t their “shitta”, to put it nicely. I’m sure their Rebbitzen’s opened the door for Reb Moshe and Rav Pam many more times than the other way.
WHY should women give up their seats for guys? Have you seen men and women on the subways? Men can balance a whole-lot better than women can (especially when she is in heels). Would you rather a woman falling down or a guy?
I think you are being ridiculous. women open doors for men? It is a kind thing to do for anyone to hold open doors, but WHY is it a “matter of courtesy and mentchlichkeit” for women to hold doors for men and not vice-versa? Are men immune from being kind?
Gabboim, were you quoting me or did you read into what I said? Because I didn’t “STATE” that. So would you like to rephrase your comment? This is how rumors get started.
I’m sure their Rebbitzen’s opened the door for Reb Moshe and Rav Pam many more times than the other way.
I, for one, would LOVE to know how you can be so sure of that.
The Wolf
It is also polite for men to get rid of the spiders.
so right,
Why are you corrupting the halachos of tzniut? Tell me what is the tzniut problem. (Owait a second, don’t tell me, nothing!!!!) There is nothing wrong w/ being a mentch on a date. If anything it would be unmentchlachkite if one didn’t open the door.
Brings me back to an interesting discussion we had here once…about how women should open the doors for men because men shouldn’t walk through behind women. Ah those were the days!
At work, our front doors are HEAVY. When I’m pregnant, I always ask people to help me (men or women). Those doors are a strain even when I am not pregnant and I am no lightweight!
I think guys should also walk girls to the door after the date or at least the steps. Just a nice thing to do and makes the girl feel safe…
Dunno
I was brought up that doing that is the proper and correct thing to do.
Most Rebbeim and dating coaches will ask you if you did that.
PB
Unfortunately not everyone else was.
dunno…i had more to add to that, but the mods didnt deem it to be appropriate, like most of my comments here :))
Dunno
Lol I just thought there is something called common courtesy.
cshapiro
🙁
stupidity girls should not wan t it
gbale3
Let me guess… You’re a guy.
actually opening the door and then immediatly going to your side gives a girl some time to get in and adjust skirt/dress. seems to me it is actually more tznisdik
so right
That was an easy one.
gbale3…is that english??? what are u saying?!?
Before you try excusing this behavior with whatever excuses you have, see if your excuse still stands after asking yourself this:
Why shouldn’t the girl open the car door for the guy?
Back in the days when my wife and I were dating, my car was not equipped with electronic locks. I had a key, and the doors could be unlocked from the inside by pulling the button up. I always unlocked and opened the door for the girls I dated; I then noted if the girl leaned across from her seat to unlock my door from the inside. The girl I married was one of the few who did.
so right
Sorry, but that’s not true. You never adjusted a long skirt?
dunno, so right is usually so wrong.
I personally always opened the locks from inside, for the guy. That’s my nature. But the guy also always opened my door for me first. Nowadays almost everyone has automatic locks that open simultaneously on all sides.
Any guy who says it shouldn’t be done, or cannot understand why it matters to girls, is not very considerate in this particular area, and possibly others. It MATTERS to girls. So if that is true, that is reason enough to do it, even if you silently object. Keep it to yourself and you will seem less boorish. What is the expression – Better to be silent and THOUGHT a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.
It MATTERS to girls. So if that is true, that is reason enough to do it, even if you silently object
and here oomis brings up a point critical to a good marriage as well
Yep, Mod 80. All smart husbands know that if something is really important to their wives (like going to visit her family, even if they bore him to sleep and he would rather go for a root canal), he should go. And be pleasant to them. He will reap the benfits of being a “sensitive and thoughtful” husband.
Honestly, this is something that wasn’t a big deal to me. I don’t remember if my husband opened the door for me or not while we were dating. But I do expect him to open the door for me if my hands are full, and obviously vice versa.
I do think if its important to your spouse, you should do it, even if you don’t think its a big deal. This goes both ways.
I do think if its important to your spouse, you should do it, even if you don’t think its a big deal. This goes both ways.
This.
The Wolf
“I do think if its important to your spouse, you should do it, even if you don’t think its a big deal. This goes both ways”
Most important point of all. But also IMO, even if you personally do not consider it a big deal, since many people do, it should be done as a show of good manners. if your mother-in-law were getting in the car, the son-in-law would not open the door for her???? Kovod should be shown to all people.
Maybe this is another reason for the shidduch crisis?
Intolerance for an act that would be considered something a mentch would do?
And to the people suggesting that opening the door is just a guy trying to sneak a peak at something he shouldnt see..grow up
I always feel that my husband or any man is being thoughtful when he opens the door for me, especially when he comes around to open the car door for me. It shows that he thought about it, and as they say “it is the thought that counts” especially in this instance. I wouldn’t necessarily be upset if he didn’t, but the fact that he remembered to do it, or thought to do it, makes me feel good about him or anyone who is being thoughtful.
wolf im not sure i get it
was
>>this>>
<<this<<
basically what you meant?
A common method of indicating that you agree very firmly with a post (used on other boards I frequent) is to quote the part you agree with and say “This.”
Short and elegant.
The Wolf
i thought you were making a pun based on This goes both ways
and you were somehow indicating that the word: “this” goes both ways.
Ah. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
The Wolf
Why does a boy take a girl out? Maybe a girl should take a boy out? This question doesn’t bother you, right? Because you understand that this is the way of the world – the man goes after the woman and this is a Chazal too.
Since you are taking her out, why should she open the door for you? Can u imagine if I bring you to my house and I expect you to open my door for me?
(The only question remaining is if it appropriate or not, which is indeed a borderline question and has always been.)
Anyone?
Why is it borderline, some things are just a matter of manners or etiquette. If I have you over for coffee do I pour or do you pour? Which fork do you use, which spoon? Do you stand up when your date leaves the table to go to the ladies room? Do you help her on with her coat or get it for her? Would you offer to open her snapple or soda bottle for her? Would you wait for her to order first?
There are some things that are just plain manners, etiquette, proper, call it what you will. Discuss it with your Rav or dating coach before you go out.
so rite….”If the skirt/dress needs adjusting from getting into the car, the skirt/dress is too short.”
we arent privileged to wear sweatpants and a tshirt on a date, and when getting in and out of a car wearing a narrow skirt and heels, unless its an suv, its not as easy as it sounds…so dont go blasting when ur totally clueless to the situation.
world saver–
excellently said.
if you think its not tzniyus, you can open the door, and walk around to your own seat then–don’t watch her get in. that way, its the gesture and etiquette that matters, not that she can’t open and close the door on her own.
Oomis, I think its a generational thing.
We ALWAYS open doors for our grandparents, no matter what. It wouldn’t occur to me (or DH really) to open for either of our parents, unless there was a reason to (hands are full, dirty, or something else). This is probably a product of growing up with automatic locks in cars – its no longer a huge deal.
I would automatically hold the door open for someone to let them through – anyone really. I think that’s more common courtesy than anything. And I expect others to do so as well, without turning them into a pretzel.
opening the door is for married couples only (or those engaged)
so right… what is the difference between “frum” and “frummer”? neither one has a real clear definition (just ask around and you’ll get different criteria)….
Is that a general statement or was a poll conducted? I say frum girls expect frum boys to have manners.
Frum girls (especially the frummer ones) don’t expect to have the door opened for them, and in fact are turned off by it.
Then I guess you’re calling my wife not frum, because she likes it when I hold the door open for her (along with doing other considerate things). She is most certainly not “turned off” by my showing courtesy for her.
I think you owe Eeees an apology for calling her not frum.
The Wolf
Please do not speak for frummer girls, So right. Any girl worth her salt appreciates being treated properly amd considerately. If they do not, then it is likely because they were brought up by fathers with your attitude, and did not see their own mothers treated with respect. I could see a girl telling a guy it’s not necessary, but don’t try to convince me they are turned off by thoughtful behavior.
opening the door is for married couples only (or those engaged)
And your source for this statement?
I never understood why boys open doors for girls on dates. So I decided to ask my date once. He got all flustered and he said well I don’t know. That is what they tell us to do. So then I said well do you always do what “they” tell you to do. It was really funny because he was getting all nervous and I was so chilled. Anyway yea I don’t get it. I mean if you are gonna open the door for her when she is your wife then ok.
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