One Orthodoxy, Two Worlds

I am not concerned about a Satmar becoming a Zionist. I used those 2 because their opinions are well known and nobody would be shocked

However in seeing recent threads about recent current events here I see certain rabboniom’s psak’s quoted and it might not be a popular psak, there are others who disagree with these psak’s but it doesnt mean the Rav who disagrees is well known. And it might appear to be unfavorable to the Rav quoted especially since this website appears high on google search

mikehall: That would presume the two hashkofos are interchangeable. They aren’t.

actually its already 42 vs 80, so to speak

i would have closed this thread immediately but he got here first and i would never step on the esteemed 42s toes

in retrospect the thread turned out ok…so far

I think an “elite” debate would be a good idea. Having a debate with only a selected few intellectual, respectful standard-bearers of their respective hashkafos would eliminate the immaturity and loshon hara/sinas chinom aspect that keeps creeping into these types of threads.

I think Mod-42’s nomination of Feif Un, Charliehall, cantoresq, and SJSinNYC for the MO sounds good, and for the Chareidi I would nominate Derech HaMelech, truth be told, WIY, and Mod-80.

Feif Un: How about if Mod-80 promised to leave the moderating up to Mod-42?

Healthy debate has a way of spiraling in machlokes. Whatever good may come of this debate pales in comparison to the division that may also result. Why place ourselves in this situation?

I second Wolf for charedi and Charlie for MO. By the way, a couple days before the latest round of charedi/MO started in the coffee room, Rav Rakeffet was in America and gave a drasha on bridging the gap between charedim and MO. The drasha was well attended by a spectrum ranging from his talmidim in Gruss kollel to local chasidim. He would do a great job representing both sides.

What exactly is the point of debate? To “prove” the other side wrong? And then what? Do you think they will all move over to the other side? Of course they won’t. Ten books will immediately sprout up justifying their side’s cause and demonstrating how the other side used dishonest debate techniques in order to win, etc. etc. It will just cause machlokes, and we have enough of that already.

If you wanted to do something productive, than have these two sides sit down in a room together and try to work out a way to promote more tolerance within their circles. But debate won’t get you anywhere.

shein:

“Daas Yochid is also a great candidate for the UO. mw13 too is a great candidate.”

Thanks for the nomination, I would certainly be more than willing to take part in such a debate if the Mods and general CR populance decided that I am fit to do so (and, of course, if the debate ends up happening). And I completely forgot about Daas Yochid. he definitely has my nomination too.

Feif Un:

“Here’s my issue, which I will demonstrate by giving an example that has happened in the past: Someone bashes MO by saying, “MO women don’t dress properly.” I respond, “Well, plenty of chareidim have gotten in trouble for XYZ, does that mean chareidi Judaism is about doing XYZ?”

I think that is one of the most interesting points up for debate: When is the complaint of “XYZ is too common in your community” a fair complaint ? Does it have to be 10% with the problem? 25%? 50%? Or is it only a fair point if XYZ is generally accepted in the community? Or is it never a fair point at all?

I second Wolf for charedi

Please tell me that you’re kidding…

The Wolf

I’m not trying to be cynical, but is the nomination of Wolf for the chareidi representative a joke?

Then it is decided…Wolf will represent UO 😉

Lomed, if no one selected you, you can’t just start the debate with you representing UO…maybe there is a reason your name was not mentioned….

OK, here is the second question (see several posts above for the first question)

Was the Rambam MO, since he had a very secular job as the Sultans DR.?

Did I mention how silly this thread is?

Discuss…….

I want Feivel for UO.

“If you go to Amazon and read the reviews, there were quite a few people who said they became more religious after reading the book.”

Are you trying to say if this debate takes place and the UO comes out as victorious, it may make MO people more religious?

Just curious what you meant? Becasue it kind of sounds you are putting Reform and MO in the same box…

zahavasdad: It is likely that the reviews on Amazon saying that some people became more religious after reading the book, are not people who use the CR. I would doubt that anyone became a BT – perhaps a few began lighting Shabbat candles (a good start. I think that this proposed debate would be divisive because even if posters cannot participate – just read – they will start other threads and begin their own “debates”. Aside from myself, I don’t think that there are many non-frum posters (don’t know about readers, of course) so I can’t think of why this debate is really necessary. This is just my opinion, of course. Also, anyone accepting the job of being a participant in this debate will be responsible for a lot of hard work, writing and researching. So, if this actually happens, I hope that we can all be greatful to the participants – they will be investing a lot of time in the project.

The debate thread is a joke. The mods aren’t allowing any MO stuff through.

Feif Un:

“The debate thread is a joke. The mods aren’t allowing any MO stuff through.”

To be fair, there’s probably lots of attacks on the MO also not getting through.