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Let me preface this by saying that I am in a bitter marriage. Therefore, take everything I say with that in mind.
Older girls are gems and older guys, for the most part, are not even halfway worthy of them.
The NASI initiative is ridiculous b/c the older a girl is, the more likely she will be matched with an older guy. A 30-year-old girl who is “lucky” enough to get married through this program will never get her money’s worth unless the chosson realizes her worth and is willing to work on himself to deserve her.
I married a 29-year-old when I was nearly 26. Worst decision I ever made. I was desperate, and I settled big time. I was doing something meaningful with my life; he was directionless. Yet he had pants, and that was enough for my parents. Not only is he accustomed to his lazy lifestyle comprised of nearly 30 years doing nothing, he is stubborn and refuses to change his miserable habits. He is dragging me down into an abyss, and it’s all my fault, as I let desperation get the better of me.
If I had been going out while this new NASI ad had been in print, I probably would have jumped off a cliff. The authors of this ad will have some serious din v’cheshbon to give after 120 for the hopelessness this surely caused.
This is my advice to wonderful “older” girls: you are worthwhile just because you are here. Do not settle for a bad marriage; it is a thousand times worse than being single (too bad you cannot understand that while you’re still single). Do not fork over your hard-earned money; it is NOT hishtadlus. Don’t believe that Hashem can’t do it without the money. If you are meant to get married, you will.
I truly believe that most ppl are meant to get married. If it doesn’t happen for a girl till she’s in her mid-thirties, THAT’S OKAY. This NASI program will only lead to more desperate marriages that may or may not end in divorce. Instead of creating happy lives, it will only bring sadness and despair…except, of course, to the “self-less, hardworking” shadchanim, who will probably laugh all the way to the bank.
While “Agreer” prefaced her remarks with apologetics, she had no reason to. Whether or not she was in a bitter marriage, her words ring true. The panic to marry at any cost is bad policy.
OP: Your advice in a nutshell is it is better for older girls to settle into lifetime of singlehood.
You must discuss this with a reputable person who deals with such. There is no reason for you to put up with this and to follow his lazy lifestyle. Your points are very true and valid.
Hatzlocha Rabba and don’t put up with this.
“Your advice in a nutshell is it is better for older girls to settle into lifetime of singlehood.”
my uncle married at the age of 39 to a wonderful woman who was 35. theyve been married for around 8 or 9 years very happily.
Worst decision I ever made. I was desperate, and I settled big time.
Not uncommon, given the “crisis”. In the secular world, the problem is more common, except that there the girls are more willing to remain single. (Google “the atlantic all the single ladies”). Many guys ARE deadbeats (although “kollel” can cover it up, for non learners). And yes, better to be single than marry someone who has no ability to treat you correctly.
A lifetime remaining single is perhaps the worst life a girl can have.
The high divorce rate cuts across all marriage ages. Koheles says that there is one good guy in 1,000, and no good girls in 1,000. (midrash says there is also 1 good girl in 1,000 but he didn’t want people to start divorcing their wives to find that 1 guood woman) So by that standard, EVERY marriage is a ripoff. Yet we are supposed to get married.
People keep trying to change their spouses, and then they wonder why their spouses are not the same person they married.
Agreer: I’m so sorry about your situation. You are absolutely correct that one shouldnt settle. Not only the older girls, but younger ones too. Although it is easier in a way for a younger couple to grow together and learn while they grow.
shmoel: so true, “better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all”
A lifetime remaining single is perhaps the worst life a girl can have.
Sad, and obviously false.
Abuse, perhaps. Being used as nothing but a receptacle, maybe. Single? Nothing wrong with being single.
miritchka is correct though, as well. It is just the absoluteness of your comment that is wrong.
Forget NASI, your situation has nothing to do with them, or their ad. Have you spoken (not, did you confront your husband about….) to your husband about “his lazy lifestyle comprised of nearly 30 years doing nothing” and how it has a negative impact on you as a person? Have you spoken to a marriage counselor and/or a Rav? Does your husband have a Rav/Rebbe/mentor?
Men are so much smarter than women. A girl could never pull that sort of garbage on us!
“A lifetime remaining single is perhaps the worst life a girl can have.”
“Sad, and obviously false.”
The gemara DOES assert “Tav Limaiav Tan Du, MiLimaisav Armelu”. I dont claim to understand exactly what that means and how it applies in all situations, but to simply say “false” is likely wrong too. This line of gemara does imply that at least in certain scenarios a woman would rather “settle” than remain single (I believe in the case of the gemara the shliach accepted kiddushin on her behalf from a not very attractive fellow). Every person is different and every person draws the line on what they will or wont settle on. Blanket statements should be avoided on such a subject.
apushatayid:
I’m not saying it is not better to be married than not, but to claim being single is worse than being abused/Anusah is just crazy.
gavra: That seems to be a change in tune from your previous comment of “Abuse, perhaps. Being used as nothing but a receptacle, maybe. Single? Nothing wrong with being single.” That sounded, to my ears at least, that being single isn’t any worse than being married – even aside from the abuse issue. Did I misunderstand? Cause the gemorah apushatayid cited would seem to disagree.
OK. who suggested that it was?
Did I misunderstand?
Yes. As I then said..
“miritchka is correct though, as well.”
who said “better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all”.
I am aware of Reish Lakish, though it is an interesting question where and when it applies. See Yevamos 118B, V’Dok (especially the last four words).
To quote Yeshaya HaNovi (Beshaim Hashem):
? ?????-?????? ????-????????, ?????????? ???-?????? ??????, ???????? ????????????? ??????, ????? ??????; ?????-?????? ?????????, ??? ????? ??? ??????. {?}
? ????-??? ????? ??????, ???????????? ?????? ?????????? ???-????????????, ?????????, ????????? ??????????; ?????????????, ???????????. ? ?????????? ????? ????????? ????????????, ??? ??????–????, ????????? ???????????: ???? ?????? ??????-???, ?????? ??? ????????. {?}
While I ususally love being proven right, in this case, I wish I was wrong.
Agreer is right. At 26, she most likely had a serious carear, and mr husband had zilch.
Sad, that we demand nothing of our boys, but the world of our girls.
I think the OP should get help for herself. She needs to see the beauty in the other person. Let me preface this by saying that I am in sort of the same boat. WHat is boils down to, is lack of compatibility. Start going to marriage counseling and offer him to join. It may be that you can change also. Of course, divorce may be the answer but I would take the opportunity to learn for the future then.
Agreer -Sorry to Disagree.
I feel sorry for you, but you’re the exception, not the rule.
“Older girls are gems and older guys, for the most part, are not even halfway worthy of them.”
While age in girls doesn’t affect them so much mentally -did you ever consider why the guy is older and not married? I’ll tell you why -because s/o who isn’t the biggest Macher or come from a rich or Yichus family -no one Redds them anything. So they get older. Most are still very worthy human beings. I know because I was an older guy and I settled and am now divorced. I’ll tell you something else that a good percent of the older guys have good Middos, while I see many of the guys who are prime market material (as explained above) are lacking in Middos. I understand were your perception comes from, but it is wrong!
“I was desperate, and I settled big time. I was doing something meaningful with my life; he was directionless. Yet he had pants, and that was enough for my parents.”
I will not take your opinion about your parents at face value, there are always two sides to any story -I’d like to hear theirs’.
Also, why blame your parents? Any girl post high school looking to get married, esp. at 26, should know how to figure out what the guy is all about during the dates. This is the reason we even have a dating process.
From Alfred Lord Tennyson’s poem In Memoriam:27, 1850:
I hold it true, whate’er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
‘Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.
(not exaclty gemara-discussion material)
Singledom is given a bad rap. There is a lot that a lot of the singles in our community do for us that they could not do if they had the family constriants of being married. That is not to contradict the gemara, but it shouldn’t be such a shameful thing either. Make them feel important for who they are, not who you think they should be.
I heard that Devorah haneviah was in the similar situation and she made wicks for the menorah and sent her spouse to deliver them over and over until the hashpaw of being in the environ of the House of Hashem brought out the Tzidkus of her spouse. You have the power to define your marriage in a positive way. If you had the talent to build a good career why don’t you use some of it to reverse your apparent trend? Good Luck, and may Hashem help you build a bayis neeman b’yisrael b’toch shaar mishpachas Yisrael.
I’ll tell you why -because s/o who isn’t the biggest Macher or come from a rich or Yichus family -no one Redds them anything.
Maybe before now. Now, the phone rings for the guys because they have a pulse and a Yarmulka, and not for girls, who many just don’t get called.
Agreer – don’t give it a second thought and get out of the mess. Women, you will never change your husband’s traits; what you see is what you get.
GAW -“Maybe before now. Now, the phone rings for the guys because they have a pulse and a Yarmulka, and not for girls, who many just don’t get called.”
Consider yourself lucky -that people want to go out with you.
Sorry to say, here in Lakewood nothing has changed!
“older guys, for the most part, are not even halfway worthy of them.”
I am not new to being an older single guy so i am well aware of what the majority of people think about us we are either nebbishes, nutjobs, or ne’er do wells, this is a reality i face every day and it is unfair, is marriage the preferred lifestyle a man should lead definitly, but it not for everyone i dont date because i know im not marriage material never have been but i will live my life to the fullest and be the best me i can be.
Agreer, I am very sorry for your situation and I agree with the other posters that suggest you see someone professional and perhaps if there is no progress pursue other methods.
I had written a fairly lengthy response, in defense of ‘older’ men/boys. And defending Nasi’s approach as well intending in light of a bad problem. But I realized it wasn’t going to make a difference.
Agreer, I really do feel bad for you. And I hope that things get better quickly. The world is not always so dark and everyone has their different nisayonos to get through. May you get through yours quickly and once again be able to see Hashem’s Bria in a positive light.
Consider yourself lucky -that people want to go out with you.
Sorry to say, here in Lakewood nothing has changed!
I thank Hashem often that:
1: I am married to a wonderful person (with wonderful children, BH).
2: I don’t live in Lakewood (not to disrespect others that do, but it is not for me).
“but it not for everyone i dont date because i know im not marriage material never have been but i will live my life to the fullest and be the best me i can be. “
Goq- why would you put yourself down like that, and limit yourself? Just like you know you can be the best you can be, you could be ‘marriage material’ and you can find your zivug. Everyone has one, though it may take longer for some to find that one. But why give up? Yes, live life to its fullest in whatever situation you currently are and don’t just sit around waiting. But that doesn’t mean you have to take marriage out of your goals and dreams.
I believe it can happen very soon. Do you?
Goq: If marriage is the “preferred l/s” and you truly want to be the best you can, daven to turn it around and get on with it, you sort of sound like you are afraid to believe yourself capable of it, if so then look to one you see as more capable and maybe you can surpass him?
There are many older girls out there who would rather marry a divorced or widowed guy than an older single, as they view the older singles as odd. And vice versa- many older guys would rather marry a divorced woman than an older single woman for the same reason. Not that I agree with this, but this is the perception.
I really liked your post. It was well-written and full of feeling!
Sorry if I’m clueless here, but when is a guy considered “old?”
i was touched by the OP and wish ‘agreer’ much hatzlacha in life. however, i am surprised at all the opinions suggesting divorce. agreer does not indicate how long she is married, or when her feelings of discontent began. EVEN IF she went into the marriage “settling” the marriage is still min Hashamayim, still “meant to be”. marriages are often very rocky for the first several years. many newly married girls struggle with respecting their husbands (learning or working). many times after marriage, habits and character traits are revealed that turn one spouse off completely to the other. i’m not saying that one should stay in a miserable marriage, but if a person doesn’t solve the core of the problem and opts to give up and get out (ie, divorce) they may find themselves in the same situation again, in the next marriage.
despite 2011 culture, lasting love and respect don’t happen spontaneously. we don’t fall in love, and naturally respect all the different habits of those we live with. it takes so much tears and work. Agreer, your OP is heartbreaking. i hope you are able to get help for yourself and for your marriage.
Agreer, at 26 I cant believe your parents were able to influence you about a life-long decision, despite you having bad vibes. At what point did you decide that this marriage has no hope, as opposed to you seeing advantages and disadvantages of marriage to him, and choosing to go ahead, as a 26 year old young adult. What tilted the scale?
I know of many divorcees (not all) who regretted their marriage and then regretted their divorce.
Hatzlacha, whatever you decide.
GAW – “1: I am married to a wonderful person (with wonderful children, BH).”
Sorry, got you mixed up with another poster.
“2: I don’t live in Lakewood (not to disrespect others that do, but it is not for me).”
Well wherever you live, I’m glad that unmarried men have an easy time getting dates.
GAW…lol a pulse and a yarmulke.
GAW – “1: I am married to a wonderful person (with wonderful children, BH).”
Sorry, got you mixed up with another poster.
No Problem 🙂
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