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If your answer for dating someone so much younger is something you hesitate to post
I’m sorry, that makes no sense.
Some times the answer will be that she seems like a good person to date.
Some times the answer will be that she is attractive.
What are you envisioning?
hi Ooomis, I believe I recognize you from CalmKallahs?, or somewhere else. Let me respond to your post.
“Divorced guy – if you are 36, I sincerely hope you are not trying to date girls in their early-mid twenties. And just to let you know, many girls, aged 25-28, whom I know personally, who go to Singles events, DETEST it when divorced guys in the 36-40 group hit on them. They are too polite to say, “go away and pick on someone your own age,” but that is exactly what they are thinking. It totally creeps them out that a guy that much older than they, is trying to get their number.”
I happen to be a very perceptive guy and I never ask a girl out directly if there is a significant age gap unless I am fairly sure she will say yes. In fact, many of those girls who are “eeiked out” often confide in me that they feel that way because they don’t perceive me to be interested in them. I will only ask a girl out if I am fairly sure she will say yes, so I don’t usually go out with the women you describe. I stick to shadchanim for the most part, or to asking someone out who has already indicated their interest to me. And it does happen, most women I date are 9+ years younger than me.
Now getting back to those women who are “eeiked out”…. In my opinion they are making a very, very big mistake and will regret it when they are older and more mature. Frankly, I just don’t get it. They are in their early 30s and have a very limited time to find someone to marry if they want to have children. Added to that the paucity of decent guys out there. I am not judging them, I just think that practically speaking it makes absolutely no sense for them not to consider us older guys.
I am not judging them and I hope they will Be’ezras Hashem find their zivug when Hashem sends him. However, I for one constantly re-think my approach to dating and constantly challenge my presumptions. I wonder if those women who can’t stand it when an older guy approaches them are doing the same.
“Tav LiMeitav Tan Du”
anon for this –
Just to clarify, are you saying that any woman who outlives a husband of similar age caused him to die?Not all of them -a portion of them. And don’t ask me how many, I never took a poll. The gemorah calls a woman who three of her husbands died a “Katlonis”.
Health – you weren’t reading my post. I specifically referred to situations where the guy is 10-15 years older than the girl. You said that your grandparents WERE THE SAME AGE. That’s a different case altogether.
We’re talking situations where the guy is old enough to be his own kids’ grandfather.
Divorced_Guy – what’s wrong with a lady your own age? Why should a girl be interested in someone so much older? What do you have to offer? Be realistic.
I once tried to redt a shidduch for a guy who was so well-padded that his gut lapped out over his belt. His first question about the girl was, “Is she skinny?” My reaction was to say, “If she were skinny why would she want somebody with a spare tire like yours?” but I bit my tongue and was silent. However, she returned the compliment. He was a “working boy” and her seminary teachers would never have approved.
Are you only looking for a younger woman? And are you looking for another wife? Sooner or later, they will be 9+ years older. Personally, I don’t mind about the dating age being younger…or older! But if she must be 10 years younger, it sounds like you have some unresolved issues about relationships. It is the person herself you need to be attracted to. When I met my husband 20+ years ago, we were both so smitten, we couldn’t bear to be apart for long. It is the same today. We didn’t even know how old each other was till we got our marriage license!
Sac; I’m happy to see from your earlier post that you’re a farginer. If you’re still single… YH”R “You should find your Basherte Bekarov!”
Some single girls get bitter at everyone although it’s hard to blame them after what theyre going through. Still it’s very important to Fargin everyone totally, thats the quickest way
out of single life.
There is nothing wrong with someone looking to marry someone notably younger than himself. If that is what he seeks, Hashem should help him get what he is looking for. And very frequently he does.
Midwest2- `”you weren’t reading my post. I specifically referred to situations where the guy is 10-15 years older than the girl. You said that your grandparents WERE THE SAME AGE. That’s a different case altogether.
We’re talking situations where the guy is old enough to be his own kids’ grandfather.”`
I did read your post. You didn’t understand mine. When it comes to life and death, there are no hard and fast rules. Even without being in the medical field, I know many young people who have died. If two people get to know each other and like each other, who cares besides you and a few like you, what their age difference is? Acc. to your train of thought, just for example, (in the CR there has been a lot of discussion regarding smoking), smokers shouldn’t get married, even if they are the same age as the woman because they are going to die much younger than her!
bein_hasdorim
You definitely get the prize for being the most random. On another thread you throw everything you have at me, for what reason I am still unsure, and now you hand out “advice”.
While I thank you for your Bracha, I dont think there is any way out of single life, unless you are Hash-m and you pull the strings.
“OOmis – I haven’t addressed you in a long time, but since when is it now taboo for an older guy to try and get a date with a younger woman? In my opinion, it’s polite to say to the guy -“No thank you”. This is the preferred torah way. Instead of detesting other Jews, it’s more polite to say no and not be Oiver “Lo sisna”. They wouldn’t be so disgusted if they immediately let the other party know the score. They wouldn’t bottle up their bad feelings. It would bother them a second with a “Eew”, and then they would forget about it. Your definition of being polite, only causes the male to keep trying, and then this causes the female to build up more resentment. “
Health, it is not taboo (yet would not the reverse be taboo, that of an older FEMALE of that age, dating a very much younger guy?), but it nevertheless is awkward. The guy comes of as a predator, if the girl is really much younger. It is simply inappropriate for a 40 year old to go after a 25 year old. and when it happened to my friend’s daughter, she could not get rid of the guy, who to his credit, was a pleasant enough fellow, but did not accept that he was making her very uncomfortable. She didn’t want to hurt his feelings or be rude, but he really followed her around. This made her feel very eckled.
It is not so easy for a girl to say outright to someone to please stop following her because he is not the right age for her. It’s also why I personally think that singles events should stick strictly to an age limit within five years of the oldest female present. Once the female are in the mid-late thirties or more, there is no shaychus to them being in a singles event with girls in their mid twenties to 30 or 31. And if divorced/widowed fellows are present (and should be), the age should be appropriate.
You may disagree, Health, and I get that you do, but a normal mid 20’s girl will likely feel that a guy 15 years older who is pursuing her, is a bit creepy. The guys also cannot seem to accept that they are not so desirable to that much younger demographic. they need to accept and act their age, which is still young, by all means, but not as young as they seem to think they are. Nothing is taboo (except what Hashem says is taboo), but such guys look extremely socially awkward, and they would do far better to go for more realistic shidduchim with older women than the ones they are scouting out.
I posted a response, but the mods nixed it. I guess it was not politically correct.
following someone around with the someone not wanting to be followed i s called stalking.
yup, check it out.
thats not dating.
Nothing wrong with it. If shes attracted to him, go for it. Many women are attracted to age, in the same way men are attracted to youth. Its because age is related to status, and women are attracted to status, whereas men are attracted to looks
OOmis – Believe it or not, I understood your post the first time, but you didn’t get my point. I actually have two teenage daughters, so I’m very cognizant about what you are saying. I also can’t comment about single’s events -being I’ve never been to one. I doubt I would ever go, it’s not done in my circles. I never thought about the halacha as far as attending, but I’ve posted here in the CR many times that I don’t feel it’s wrong for a boy to just meet up with a girl without a shadchan.
Back to my point -the easiest way to stop this behavior is for the girl to come right out and say “No, thank you, I’m not interested”. This I believe is the best way from a Torah perspective because the man will understand if he continues he is doing something wrong. It’s also best for the girl, even though she might be uncomfortable with this approach, because she won’t start harboring resentment towards this guy. This in itself is ossur because of “Lo sisna” (Hating in your heart) and also she might come to be Oiver LH! So in my opinion, it’s better to be “rude or hurt his feelings” than coming onto hate or speaking bad about this fellow!
some women are attracted to younger.
Should shadchanim suggest shidduchim with an age gap? Let’s say a shadchan has resumes from 30 divorced women. 10 younger than 29, 10 between 29 and 34 and 10 older than 34. A divorced guy walks in the door who is 42. The shadchan suggests the 10 older women. The guy insists that he has been dating for a while and he only wants to go out with the women who are 34 or younger. Should the shadchan suggest him to the younger women? Yes or no? Does it change if she has not had a suggestion for the younger women in 2 weeks? Is it the shadchan’s role to encourage people to be more open-minded?
Should I shadchan make her own decisions or present many options and let the singles decide?
A Shadchan can suggest it to him and see if he is willing and open to it, but at the end of the day the guy is going to marry what HE wants not what others want him to want.
Of course at the end of the day the boy and girl make the decision, however, we are all influenced by people around us and shadchanim have profound influence on people. If shadchanim keep suggesting certain types of matches we start to listen. Which is why I believe that part of being a good shadchan is pushing the envelope.
Shadchan should suggest whatever works with their own beliefs/ values/logic/insight, not always same as what the guy asks for.
We suggest shiduchim all the time, BH. If a guy walked in and insisted a much younger age as the only option, I would probably metion to him some good therpaist to work with first.
Unresolved issues would create a difficult marriage, I wouldnt want to subject any of my girls to it. shiduchim is a responsibility.
Professional – In your opinion how much should a single defer to shadchan. If Single says I don’t see it, but shadchan says I do, should single just go out?
I’d love to know where these helpful Shadchanim that you speak of are located!
SAC – In my experience every shadchan I have ever met is very helpful, the problem is that they are not capable of handling he work-load especially given the inefficiencies in the system. IMO the necessary hishtadlus involves raising community awareness so that each married person in klal yisroel donates maaser of their free time to making shidduchim. A powerful grass roots effort is the way to address this issue. As many posters have noted, in today’s velt families don’t socialize with other families so boys don’t know their sister’s friends and girls don’t know their brother’s friends. This leads to a tremendous limitation in friends redding shidduchim. We have to involve a flood of new people redding shidduchim.
How do you suggest people be motivated to start and more importantly stick with the frustraning most often thankless job or redding shidduchim.
Rember the “success rate” assuming we judge by engagments… is extremely small and most sane people prefer to give maaser of their time whey feel are treated as sucesses.
AZ- my suggestion is that people should look at it as a chesed just like people visit the sick, etc. Nothing personal, but I don’t think paying people for dates is the key to motivating them. Teach them that its a chesed. Let’s have a “Chofetz Chaim Heritage Foundation” focused on teaching people to work on shidduchim. Let’s have a “Machsom LiPI” focused on spending time making shidduchim. The way to crack this nut is to inspire people with great mitzva. Paying for dates is a good idea for high school teachers of others in chinuch, but for the hamon am it should be about being insipred to do a chessed.
D_Guy
“In my experience every shadchan I have ever met is very helpful”
Unfortunately my experience is quite the opposite.
Divorced_guy: Good luck… here’s a hint… it’s been tried and proven to not work… people don’t stick to chasodim where they are overworked and underappreciated and the success rate is microscopic….
But by all means.. GO FOR IT…. or you can employ the model that i’ve discussed and was just launched by another community today and a school this week….
“people don’t stick to chasodim where they are overworked and underappreciated and the success rate is microscopic”
Something about this statement doesn’t sit right with me. Unable to articulate just what it is at this time.
I agree with apushatayid, if we can educate people that the actual act of working on a shidduch is a mitzva like visiting a sick person, nichum aveilim, learning torah, etc. they will engage without looking necessarily to results. I think that is the key.
Does anyone really think that the Klal doesnt realize that being involved in Shidduchim is a Mitzvah- they say it in davening every day- “Hachnosas Kallah” doesnt only mean Tzedaka. Tell me if Im wrong!
Ive been doing it for 30+ years, and none of my friends or acquaintances would do it even for money, Kal V Chomer for no money!!! Theyre NOT interested!
Ofcourse – 20 years ago when Chofetz Chaim Heritage Foundation started I thought to myself. What a gimmick. Everyone knows L’H is ossur, but now I will be the first one to admit that they have made a big impact in the frum world. The same can be done with shidduchim. Maybe I should start working on this. I don’t have much money and I am single, but I guess it doesn’t hurt to start.
GO FOR IT
My father was 20 years older than my mother and his father was 7 years younger than his mother. Both, were spectacular marriages.
Divorced_Guy, Halevei! You will surely get Schar for your efforts and accomplishments.
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