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additionally, no one has a “war on women” or for that matter hispanics, blacks, or any other minority.
THIS IS A LIE. THE IDEA THAT A FOR PROFIT CORPORATION HAS A RELIGIOUS BELIEF IS ABSOLUTE LUNACY. CAN I COUNT A FOR PROFIT CORPORATION FOR A MINYAN?
You are so blinded by your partisanship that it is hysterical.
Yes, you can absolutely count the owner of a corporation for a minyan. And yes, religions–including Judaism–have requirements that could apply to the owner of a corporation.
For example keeping shabbos–suppose a law that said corporations had to do business 7 days a week.
You just keep sticking your head in the sand, though.
So there may not be a war on women, but there’s one on ostriches.
Very civilly, I ask,
is there not ONE thing that this administration did wrong? ONE that all of the partisans can admit to? Just ONE? Not one itty bitty ONE? ONE? ONE THING????
Everything that this Pres. has done is great and squeaky clean. It all smells like roses, ALL OF IT?
(The saddest part of this whole thing is that, My list is just a sampling!!)
But Charlie and CO. can continue to live in la la land if they so choose that IS their right and certainly dont deserve name calling. For the rest of us V’Hamayven Yaven! Hashem Yishmor!!
Very civilly, I ask,
is there not ONE thing that this administration did right? ONE that all of the partisans can admit to? Just ONE? Not one itty bitty ONE? ONE? ONE THING????
Everything that this Pres. has done is terrible and corrupt. It all smells like three weeks ago’s left over cholent, ALL OF IT?
(Sorry, but the inability to judge things objectively is a phenomenon of the human condition which has nothing to do with democrat vs. republican or conservative vs. liberal.)
“The IRS became Obama’s IRS when he took office. “
And one thing he did wrong was to leave the Bush administration holdovers in charge there.
” it certainly appears that the White House directed the IRS to give Conservative (alright, Tea Party) groups a hard time.”
There is no evidence for that, even though the Tea Party groups did deserve a hard time on their 501(c)4 applications. They simply aren’t social welfare organizations. In fact, they could have been charged with perjury for claiming to be on their application to the IRS.
“It’s funny that the Dems who ridiculed NCLB love Common Core and the Reps who supported NCLB take shots at Common Core.”
I have not been defending Common Core. It is a good idea in theory but like NCLB it relies too heavily on standardized testing.
“Simply calling an accusation a lie isn’t refutation. “
I was responding to a commenter who was accusing Obama of, among other things, mass murder. It is not for me to disprove such an outrageous slander. It is reminiscent of the attacks on Israel today.
“You typify what is wrong with political discourse in America today.”
That you attack ME and not the people who initiated the slanders that I debunked shows what is wrong with political discourse in America today. Right wingers make scandalous false attacks on Obama, and the guy who debunks them gets attacked.
“being in the country illegally is a crime (hence the word illegal)”
Actually, in most cases it is not a crime. It is civil violation, like a parking ticket. It is a crime when you re-enter only after having previously been deported. If you are here illegally and get caught, you can in most cases leave immediately at your own expense and return legally later. (If you have been convicted of a serious crime, you are deported and can’t return legally for at least ten years.)
It is possible to make it a crime — and indeed it is a crime in some countries, but then you would have to double or triple or quadruple the size of the federal prison system if you wanted to imprison the illegals. You’d also have to double or triple the number of federal judges, federal prosecutors, and public defenders, and enact a tax increase to pay for it all.
“I think Charlie just meant to deliniate his words from the words of the one to whom he was responding, though. ALL CAPS is easier than italics. “
That is correct.
“Yes, you can absolutely count the owner of a corporation for a minyan.”
But not the corporation he owns.
You disagree? Can I count a corporation that is owned by a woman?
” And yes, religions–including Judaism–have requirements that could apply to the owner of a corporation.”
But not necessarily to the corporation itself. Please cite the passages in the Mishnah, Bavli, and Yerushalmi that discusses corporations with limited liability.
But not necessarily to the corporation itself. Please cite the passages in the Mishnah, Bavli, and Yerushalmi that discusses corporations with limited liability.
Wow, your arguments are almost as bad as Avi Weiss’s.
As any 2 year old could realize: if the owner of a corporation has religious duties and prohibitions on his actions in directing the corporation, then forcing him to violate those does infringe on his religious liberty.
There are none so deaf as those who will not hear.
“As any 2 year old could realize: if the owner of a corporation has religious duties and prohibitions on his actions in directing the corporation, then forcing him to violate those does infringe on his religious liberty.”
In that case, corporations are asur. There is nothing in halachah that permits escaping liability for damages, or unpaid debts, and that is precisely what corporations are about.
Charlie, you finally stumbled across a genuine application of dina d’malchusa dina, and totally missed it.
2-year-olds do not have realizations involving owners of corporations.
Once we’re saying stupid things, I’ll note that according to you, I could set up a corporation and use it to kill people and bring church choirs into shul.
Or I could just make my yeshiva a corporation and use it to teach apikorsus!
You’re asking a good question about limited liability, but the answer isn’t that there are no issurim when acting through a corporation.
You seem to be afflicted with a rather bizarre malady which makes you think that you need to agree with every single thing Obama does just because you agree with some. This sort of black-on-white thinking is ridiculous and really quite dangerous.
“I’ll note that according to you”
I didn’t say that at all. And this is another example of the way that political discourse is done here. You have yet to counter my successful defense of President Obama’s record and have to resort to bringing up unrelated issues.
Regarding the Hobby Lobby case, the logic of the decision will bring back the days when there were Judenrein suburbs, co-op apartments, and law firms, and “No dogs or Jews” signs on businesses. Anyone who wants to discriminate can simply say that his religion requires it. I’m old enough to remember Jim Crow and KKK rallies — remember that the KKK used Christianity to justify their hate.
“You’re asking a good question about limited liability, but the answer isn’t that there are no issurim when acting through a corporation.”
In fact, poskim have to reach, stretch, and create chidushim when they attempt to determine whether a corporation is subject to the halachot of a Jew. Corporations simply aren’t discussed by Chazal or rishonim because the concept simply didn’t exist. Had Jews really been involved in finance to the degree that the anti-Semites claimed that we were, the question would have been brought before the Acharonim and it is entirely possible that the idea of a Jew being able to escape liability for his/her debts/damages would have been laughed out of the beit midrash. Now that today the entire world financial system is based on this un-Torahdik concept, our poskim have had to adapt. These issues are non-trivial.
Don’t keep telling us what you aren’t saying–just tell us what you are saying:
To wit:
Do you agree there are religious requirements and restrictions on corporate owners when they act through their corporation?
And to respond to you KKK argument, I’d much sooner take the KKK’s racial persecution over prohibiting my religion.
Or, as the confederate traitors used to say:
Better the fire ‘pon the roll,
better the blade, the shot, the bowl,
than crucifixion of the soul,
Maryland my Maryland.
Charlie. People have different definitions of successful and in your la la land it is quite all encompassing.But I digress. . . Im still waiting for ONE thing that they have done wrong. Not BUSH THIS OR BUSH THAT. ONE admission of wrongdoing ANYTHING AT ALL?? ONE independent something??? ONE?
Please lets have political discourse of intelligence. But when you cant answer my simple question to which no matter which Pres. in history there is something to point a finger at. Whether D or R there is always something, then my friend YOU are the one that’s being intellectually dishonest and showing your true colors as a hyper-partisan hack.
A wise man once told me “Democrat = Machala Sh’ayn Bo Refuah”
the question would have been brought before the Acharonim and it is entirely possible that the idea of a Jew being able to escape liability for his/her debts/damages would have been laughed out of the beit midrash.
Why on earth would you assume that? If that were the case, there would be no reason why contemporary poskim wouldn’t similarly reject the escape from liability afforded by incorporation.
And the assumption that LLCs would be assur is entirely flawed to begin with; if indeed it were not possible for a corporation to escape halachic debt, there are other aspects to corporations; not every entity which does business with a frum corporation would be subject to the psak of a bais din.
Curious, how does one look up the accomplishments of President Obama?
charlie,
i’m amazed at you!
why is it that an albert einstein professor (of neurology no less) willing to stoop to answering for a president that just happens to be a democrat, you realize that the people you could be arguing with are about as old as someone that could be your son/daughter! the gemara states (i think in kesubos) that the reason the passul guy answers back to accusations is because there is a point to their words if they were “crazy” there would be no need to answer back.
its not like he’s running for a third term anyway
dy asked
“in all fairness is there something obama has done right”
the answer is yes
countless jews have been saved by something called “the iron dome” (even though ultimately Hashem is the matzil) which was given to israel during obamas watch
ultimately Hashem is mamlich melachim (even though he doesnt have a din melech Hashem still chose him and lev saarim umalachim b’yad Hashem even if you dont like what he does)
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