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the worst social crime (=legal) in my book is when, in middle of an argument, you score a good point on someone and they don’t admit it. there are various tactics how to do it, from shrugging their shoulders to rolling their eyes, saying something dumb which has no shaychus, etc. worse yet are those who make you look either offending for arguing, or misconstrue what you say in order to make you look bad.
don’t get me wrong. no one has to change their opinions because you made a good point. no one has to be prepared with a rebuttal at all times. but a simple “could be. I’m not convinced.” or “that’s a good point. I don’t have the answer off the top of my head but I don’t think you’re right” or “true, but…” suffices. even an “I hear” does the trick.
as terrible as the crime is, it’s the most violated crime in the world. on such forums, though, it soars higher then ever. the anonymity affords being able to ignore it without looking like a deliberate coward. how many times does ****** state something and won’t comment on the valid arguments? those asterisks could be replaced with many, many usernames.
naturally, there may be warranted times. not everyone posts so often and may not see other posts. sometimes someone thinks the point is so parenthetical and/or so vague and/or so trivial that it’s not worth answering. sometimes they may not value the poster enough to respond. sometimes they were misunderstood–be it their fault or the argueer’s fault-and don’t think it’s important enough to explain.
there certainly are such instances. but sometimes , often, it’s just a pathetic cowardice. and it’s times like these that you can turn to this thread, post the offending posts, and try for some degree of accountability in debate.
I hear
Agreed
Ive had that experience trying to debate Hydroxychloroquine…
Even worse is when they escape to a different thread and repeat the misconceptions you spent pages debunking.
Participant, are you saying that e. e. cummings is right not one captal letter only the gaiva of I?
Although you are right, your better off not letting it bother you
nobody is hear to be convinced. You’ll feel better if you stop trying to convince anybody. stay here for your own sake , to flesh out your own ideas, to refine them rethink your previously held notions. Don’t worry about other people.
I assure You for every good point you think you “scored” that wasn’t acknowledged, there was one an “opponent” think was scored against you that wasn’t acknowledged.
There are posters who can see black and say white, I’ve hada poster literally redefine a word , saying he wasnt using a dictionary definition but some other “Definition” he dug up from the depths of the internet, misconstrued, cut half off of and said that was the defitnion he was using.
Thats the way it is, don’t let it bother you, Don;t view it as a “debate”
Alternatively, you might have thought you came up with a good catch or something irrefutable. But in reality it is anything but. And it was already disproven. So your interlocutor didn’t waste time responding to points that are silly, off point or merely rhetorical that don’t disprove anything at all.
Participant
Perfect example. You think you “scored a good point”
I think your comment makes absolutely no sense and has no shaychus to the topic at hand.
I don’t know what he thinksAAQ doesn’t owe you anything not every silly comment deserves a response. If he wants to engage in a silly conversation he absolutely can, if he doesn’t he doesn’t have to. If that makes you think you Got him. Gezunterheit pat yourself on your back.
I made a comment too, Am I “owed” a response? Of course not.
Participant- thumbs up on your last two posts. And thanks for this:
not answering a very simple question with nothing to lose when the answer has a 99.9% chance of showing the preacherâs hypocrisy is as clear an indication as they get that heâs fluff of baloney.
On point!
Participant
“which? the question for aaq? ”
Yes
“how can a question not make sense? the one I made here?”
no the one there
” how can it possibly not have shaychus.”
It isnt relevent to the discussion there. The discussion there was about welcoming strangers, Calling a sefardic Rabbi chacham or Rav has no relevance to that topicâAAQ doesnât owe you anythingâ
uhâŠduh? thereâs a reason this discussion is not taking place in bâd.You seem to think he “owes” you a reply.
In fact yo ustarted a new thread to bully him into replyingânot every comment deserves a responseâ
thanks so much for repeating what I already said.”you are most welcome. thus your entire thread is pointless.
“having said that, if pointing out someone violates their own preaching is considered silly by aaq then I canât fathom why”
whut?
“he frequents the coffee room. probably about half the comments boil down to something like this.”
Yep it happens big deal. Don;t let it get you down.âif that makes you think you got himâ
not answering a very simple question with nothing to lose when the answer has a 99.9% chance of showing the preacherâs hypocrisy is as clear an indication as they get that heâs fluff of baloney.”Fantastic! You win!
And syag agrees, so you MUST be right*“you certainly didnât owe me any response so what prompted you to flaunt your stupidity yet again?”
Pure enjoyment! Nothing more nothing less. I dont think I will convince you. I dont think you will acknowledge that you are contradicting your own premise (You said both not every comment deserves a response, AND “silence shows he is full of baloney”, you cant have it both ways
Actually you can, you can have whatever you want. )* I hardly engage with Syag especialy on politics for this very reason
see here
for my question “In this context whatâs the difference between a book and a memoir? ”
No answer to the question
does that mean I “got her”? I sure think so. do I think it shows her hypocrisy? Absolutely.Do I get all worked up that it is “the worst social crime” and start a thread about it?
No, I showed she was wrong, big deal move on. She doesn’t have to say “Ok you were right”(Granted the comparisons are not EXACTLY the same, since my question there was directly related to the conversation at hand, yours was not)
Oh you poor thing! How long you had to wait to undo being put in your place in exactly the way he described. If you can still be carrying it around so closely it must have been hard work for you.
Good job moving on! đSyag
who is that response to?
I assume not me,
since :
a. You ignore my replies (exhibit a above, dont worry I’m fine with it, as you aren’t very honest and what makes it worse is you have a better than thou attitude, at least I admit I’m snarky look at your comment. uch)
b. your comment in no way relates to me. Put in my place? in this thread? How ? by whom?
and c. “Moving on”? me ? that has never been my goalbut I cant figure out who else it is to
And for the record (and yes, I’m already sorry I broke my rule about not reading your posts) I never saw your question. I stopped reading your post after line three to respond and never went back. ever. if participant hadn’t taken the words RIGHT out of my mouth, i would not have veered from that path here either. And don’t be insulted, it should be joyous news for you. While I used to go out of my way to check out your posts, that died pretty quick after you changed (the change you yourself pointed out)
Lol yes!
EXACTLY” I never saw your question.”
EXACTLY
See it does not necessarily mean “not answering a very simple question with nothing to lose when the answer has a 99.9% chance of showing the preacherâs hypocrisy is as clear an indication as they get that heâs fluff of baloney”sometimes, the person simply didn’t see it
other times, the person may have just lost interest
other times they dont want an endless back and forth that goes no where.“And donât be insulted,”
I’m not, don’t worry not at all.
Im disappointed, since you changed too, but dont even see it.BTW how do you get replies up so quick, areyo connected to mods?
I reload the paage a few times, my comment isnt there than I repload again a minute later and mine and your follow up are thereLol I provide a long post, that you skip, and somehow I’m the one confused by long posts?
you’re funny.
But no youre not geoingt to get me to call you names. I am a patient explainer so I will helpI’ll keep this shorter, with a summary at the end. you should be fine.
“you could have simply said that my question didnât prove anything.”
That is EXACTLY what I said.I don’t know why he didn’t answer as I said “I donât know what he thinks”
I was responding that the fact that someone doesn’t answer doesnt mean you got them.
It could be They didn’t think it was a good or relevant point worthy of response (Like I think regarding your irrelevant comment there)
It could be they didn’t see it (Like syag claims she didnt in my post linked above)
It could be they lost interest, don’t want to get bogged down in a silly conversation (Like syag in this post)
Of course it could be that you “got them ” . Though even in that case, starting a new thread to gloat seems petty, You aren’t owed anything, ok you got him, you win mazel tov, it isnt that great a feat, do you plan to put it on your resume, “Was able to defeat a YWN poster”so to keep things concise:
your premise (that silence = defeat) isn’t true , and if it was it isn’t worth getting worked up about.with me?
relax deep breathes. Your version of the conversation does not reflect reality
This is the actual one:
Participant: I suspect aaq didnât answer my question because the answer will prove his hypocrisy.
Ubiq: not necessarily, there are lots of possibilities why someone wouldnt answer. perfect example. I think the question had no shaychus, I don’t know why he didnt answer
Participant well what do you think the answer is?
Ubiq : I have no idea. Yo uexpect me to know why a poster phrased things one way in one thread and’t“but perfect example of the one who knows the answer not answering but not because heâs escaping the truth.”
not quite. PErfect example OF there being many reasons why people don’t answer. You think you have the best zinger and you stumped him. I think it is a completely irreelvent question that doesnt deserve an answer (The thread is about welcoming people, you wrote a little tosfos asking a striha between word usage from a different (unrelated) post. I dont know why AAQ didnt answer, maybe he was stumped. Maybe he ddnt see it maybe he too thoight it was irrelvent to the thread)
My point is there are many reasons why people dont reply. This is a perfect example. Yo uthink its the best question, I think it is silly, irrelevant and distracting.
Note: Even If I’m wrong and it is a Great, relevant question It STILL doesn’t change my point, as my point is there are lots of reasons why people dont answer (Syag helpfully provided a few more excellent examples in this very thread)
That was the first hlf of my point. The Second half is even if you DID stump him, starting a new thread to gloat about it seems a bit petty. just pat yourself on the shoulder you are very very smart, print out the thread post in your fridge“you have no clue whether or not itâs relevant.”
Again, it doesnt matter. I may be wrong and you are really askign the best kasha ever posed on ywn.
I don;t know the answer nor do I care. It is completely irrelevant to my point.“what would be the most plausible explanation for such behavior?”
completely irrelevant to this (or that discussion) but just for fun:
Sefardim are often called Chacham, not so much Ashkenazim. Alternatively he forgot to cross reference his post with other posts he’s written, Veyesh omrim shnei AAQ’s haviNow your turn
What did I have for lunch yesterday?I haven’t lied once.
“you asserted that my post had no relevance”
Correct, though I said that as a possibility (I think so, I don’t know what aaq thought) . I’m following that thread so far I stand by my assertion. The discussion is about judging ….
s”econd and on was even if it was relevant maybe aaq had I different reason for not replying”
Yes and he said as such on that thread.
Lol. Should I post a new thread to brag about win?
” and even if not this thread is uncalled for blah blah blah.”
Yes it is weirdOh and I can’t help but notice that you didn’t answer my question.
edited
And that the right thing to do is to acknowledge that I made a good point
đ„Mods
I can’ say I care for your selective editing, my edited line, was milder or at worst equal to what I have been called on this threadExactly why we have to start editing instead of hoping it would actually stop on it’s own. Expect it from the other’s posts here as well.Â
I wonder how personal the heading “someone else” was meant to be.
“another lie or memory loss?”
Lets back up. you got lost
You started a thread upset that A poster didnt reply to your question depriving you of your win.
I replied, that what you think was a good point the other gy may not have and even if you were deprived it isn’t worth getting excited over.
You then refenced the thread you meant.
I pointed out this was an excellent example. You think You had a great point. (and thus were deprived of your “win”) I replied this is an excellent example of What I referred to. It is possible the opponent DIDNT thin it was a good point (I sure didn’t, and don’t) and thus wasn’t worth answering. It was possible that he simply didn’t see it.
Regardless this thread was silly <- THIS was and is my point
Either because your premise isn’t true. Silence DOES not indicate a “loss” it could be they didn’t bother replying OR didn’t see itAND even if they did, don’t get excited.
So to sum up . I do not think your question there is relevant . But it doesn’t matter what I think, that isnt what this thread is about. I could even be wrong, and it is the best question ever asked. That is COMPLETLY beside my point.
If a person doesn’t think its a good question (even if they are wrong) they may not bother answering. I don’t now what AAQ thought maybe he thought (like I did and Do) that it was a stupid question. But again what I think doesn’t matter“why should I answer your completely irrelevant question?”
YES! nailed it. Even If I think it is the best question ever, even if it IS the best most relevant question ever. Your not answering doesn’t mean anything. you dont hink it is relvent, why should you answer. I couldn’t agree more. Very well put
“aaq didnât write why he hadnât responded to me”
You are right, I misread his reply.
“your theories were all that he saw them but still didnât answer”
no my theories were that there are lots of possibilities
“woah you donât remember that you stated my question was non sensible”
Sure do, but that was never the point.
“I was completely aware. I was, for the most part not commenting on it”
Then you were ignoring my point.
“youâd rather I pay attention to all the reasons someone might not respond”
That and only that is and was my point.
“donât accuse me of losing track of the conversation because I ignored your fiery speech”
No accusation you did, as I pointed out over and over, and as you now agree: “I was, for the most part not commenting on it,”
“I understand your frustration”
no frustration this is an amusing thread.I do not understand your frustration though. who cares If I think your question was silly? first of all you say I’m stupid you say I’m a liar and second I said multiple times, It could be a brilliant point, that went over my head.
You are getting so worked up at the thought of a stupid liar POSSIBLY not thinking your point is brilliant.
take it easyMy sincerest apologies. I realize my last paragraph is poorly worded.
Allow me to rephrase
Your contention is “the worst social crime (=legal) in my book is when, in middle of an argument, you score a good point on someone and they donât admit it.”
in other words You want/expect that your “good points” be acknowledged.Sure at the end of the OP you grant that there may be other reasons why a point is ignored, but clearly you don’t put much weight on those, as otherwise this entire thread is pointless.
with me so far?
So what I pointed out, is that it is quite possible, that that which you think is a “good point” that should/must be answered to avoid violating this most serious of social crimes, your opponent may think is silly/irrelevant
As you (later) acknowledged “âwhy should I answer your completely irrelevant question?â Same with the question that started your thread why should he answer your completely irrelevant question?
It doesn’t matter If you think your question is relevant (and thus requires a response) IF he doesn’t, then as you admit, no response is required.
Again, he may be wrong, it might be the best most relevant question in the world. IF he doesn’t think it is so, he won’t respond.Honestly I’m surprised this turned into such a contentious issue
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