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There are a number of books I know of written by Jews that have LOTS of objectionable material and themes.
of course
Oops!! Sorry, Squeak!
BTW, I literally laughed out loud at your post before!
“1.written by a goy vs written by a Jew” So?
“im sorry, i cant explain it to you”
I think I’m aware of what you’re getting at – that the soul of Jew infuses itself into his/her creative works, and the soul of a goy infuses theirs. Disregard if I’m wrong.
OK. But does that mean automatically = BAD? What if the goy creates something spectacularly amazing and beautiful without tznius, etc issues (say, Beethoven’s 9th, 5th, 6th symphonies) with the intent solely on creating something wonderful, ex nihilo almost? Take Beethoven. His soul went into it but with very possibly pure, simple intentions of translating the natural, physical vibrations in his head into weaving a pleasant tapestry of musical notes? Is that a problem, given the circumstances? Maybe LVB was trying to reach the divine in his own way. Maybe. Maybe Mozart was as well, as was Vermeer, Conan Doyle, Michelangelo, Dante, etc?
if you understand the purity and holiness of the Yiddish Neshama
if you understand we are in golus and what our mission is here
if you have Emunah in Olam Ha Boh deep in your heart
then i dont have to explain further
if you dont, then nothing i can say will help
Thank G-d, i really hoped i might
if i can inspire you further, i used to be a tv addict, walked in the house every night, sat on the sofa and turned it on; and before i put my foot on the gas, the radio was turned on. newspaper every day. magazines at work. i loved science fiction and fantasy novels. i read maybe fifty a year. none of that any longer. i am literally a new person.
but if you dont know why it is important, it can be more difficult. take it slowly. try to commit to no secular books for 40 days. Chazal say it takes 40 days for a major change. think hard about why you are doing it. think about your eternal existence. think about what Hashem provides you with every day. think about his love for you. think about what He wants from you. then make a commitment.
May Hashem give you strength.
feivel has done it again.
Thank you for being you
I totally disagree that there is anything wrong just because a book is non-jewish. It all depends on the book. Predictably here, people jump and insist that yiddishkeit is all about being close-minded and walling ourselves off from all contact with the world, thinking we are the only good people, and everything and everyone else is bad and Hashem is angry at them all, and he will even get angry with us if so much as read someting that they wrote. He is just waiting for an opportunity to throw us into gehenom, and reading Sherlock Holmes is as good an excuse as any. He is smacking his lips and rubbing his hands in glee as he relishes this opportunity to punish people for reading anything other than what’s on the approved chareidi booklists.
So a child should not read Johnny Tremain about the American Revolution, or Red Pony, or a biography of Einstein or Edison or Abraham Lincoln? We are in this world for a purpose and we have a mission to spread kindness and warmth and to accomplish as much as we can and help the less fortunate and to be a light unto the nations. If we have no knowledge of other people and cultures, we will not have any common language to share what yiddishkeit has to offer. A Jewish child may find the most inspiring book he ever read was a biography of Jackie Robinson, the first black baseball player, or the story of Rosa Parks. The biography of Beethoven is heartbreaking as is his music. And a child may even become motivated to be a bigger masmid by reading about Bill Gates who from his elementary school days often spent nights in the computer lab of his school shteiging in computer theory, and the teachers would wake him up in the morning on the floor of the school.
There is nothing wrong with a child reading about this unbelievably great world that the RBSH created, and all that has transpired, as he learns to separate the good from the bad and to strive for the good.
By allowing a child to broaden his mind and develop some anivus, not thinking that everyone else is bad and worthless, it helps him develop better ahavas habriyos which is the foundation of the world and of all midos tovos.
When he is told that everything is treif and stupid, it leads to the kind of personality disorders that cause people to run around on the streets calling their fellow Jews Nazis. It leads to kids going off the derech because they have no motivation to do anything, since the thought of doing nothing but learning, and not even being allowed to get any secular training to make a decent living is so depressing that they begin to despise the religion. Everything is treif and asur, so they can’t develop any goals or hopes for the future or to use their G-d given talents to better the world, whether by means of curing a terrible disease or inventing a new technology (I don’t mean a new Shabbos blech) or developing expertise in classical music or anything else of interest to them. They remain ignorant of the entire world, and appear to the rest of the world as a bunch of simpletons locked into the 17th century. How can one possibly think of going into kiruv when he comes across as a total ignoramus?
There is plenty to gain from being exposed to other cultures. (The gemara says that various tannaim said oheiv ani es hamedayim or oheiv ani es haparsiim–I love this or that nation because they have such and such admirable traits.)
If you want to believe that avodas hashem means one should be close-minded, that is fine. But at least realize that just as much good, if not more, can be accomplished by being open-minded and friendly to all, and acknowledging the accomplishments of others of all types.
There may be four categories to consider:
1. Written by a jew with a goyish kop.
2. Written by a jew with a yiddish kop.
3. Written by a goy with a goyish kop.
4. Written by a goy with a yiddish kop.
I totally understand what pashuta Yid is saying! You can not make kids grow up in an unrealistic bubble so that they think that everyone is BAD! Unless they look act or dress just like them! You are just setting them up for disappointment and resentment later on in life
BS”D
A Jewish child may find the most inspiring book he ever read was a biography of Jackie Robinson, the first black baseball player, or the story of Rosa Parks.
This is very, very sad as is the rest of the post it comes from.
When I read things like this I can only say: “ashreinu ma tov chelkeinu” about those of us who know better than to accept American post war values as if they were Torah.
The Lubavitcher Rebbe told Senator Moynihan that in essence he admired the Chinese in NY. But never once did he say that any JEW should emulate their ways (which include avoida zoro let alone eating tarfus), only that Senator Moynihan should look out for their well being because their quiet and self-reliant nature may have been impeding their ability to receive assistance in acclimating to the US.
Read books to find out about history – by all means. In the beis kisse where they belong. And make sure they’re clean even for in there. Otherwise, you start thinking that Jackie Robinson (or George Washington) was lehavdil Moshe Rabbeinu and Rosa Parks was chas vesholom Devora haNeviah.
In fact if I ever have daughters I will tell them the REAL story of Rosa Parks, a tired woman who just sat in the first available seat and then was used by all kinds of activists, to contrast her to real heroines like Chana or Devorah or Soroh Schenirer AH who did what they did out of conviction and as proud women of Torah.
However, I will make sure they read Amos Oz’s biography of Theodor Herzl OLBM as well as Perfidy by Ben Hecht and a book about Roosevelt YMS and his policy on refugees.
You forget that the American democracy is as much klipa and from the yetzer as the dictatorship of Ahmadinejad is, and that values like yours led to the spiritual Churban which took so many Jews away from Yiddishkeit in the US. There was of course the fire of the Shoah, but there was also the far more gentle water of American assimilation, that led us to lose so many over the past generations.
600 kilo
A person does not have to teach their kids that all those people are our heroes. But they can learn about them; not to emulate them; but I guess ignorance is bliss!
BS”D
Just to clarify, what I mean by the beis kisse is not necessarily literal, but that if you need to read them you need to think of them as beis kisse literature, something that isn’t ossur but is “past nisht”.
It is 2.30 AM here and thanks to a power outage that killed my day I am working for another couple of hours. I might just click on an old Haim Moshe, or Enrico Macias, or even Farid ul-Atrache video on You Tube to stretch a bit and stay up. When I do that I know I’m not doing what I’m supposed to, and I don’t buy such music or even download the videos because I know it isn’t the right thing to listen to – but I just might want to listen to it to help me stay up. I certainly don’t excuse myself by saying that Haim Moshe’s old lyrics come from Shir HaShirim (they do but they’re not kedusha or quality either for that matter), or that Enrico Macias’s lyrics are all about peace and tolerance and love (they are, but the universalist PC kind that has no place in Torah and they’re sappy besides) or chas vesholom anything positive about the words ul-Atrache sings which I don’t understand really anyway.
Secular books and harmless secular music have the same spiritual value as diet soda has nutritional value, and are harmless so long as taken the right way, not in excess and not to supplant anything of value. But if you don’t know the difference, or you let your kids access it too early it is like putting Diet Coke in a baby’s bottle.
mominisrael, sorry for coming across rude. its just that some people make beleive that they are i kont know what and when they post a 2nd post you realize that what they said is so not true. thaks for teh explanation a ksiva vchasima tovah, may you only have simchos!
Kilobear, didn’t the gemara learn the extent of Kibud Av Vaem from an idol worshipper named Dama ben Nesina? Where is your source that everything in the world that is not Jewish or frum is bad? I am also rather surprised at your statement that American democracy is as bad as Ahmadinejad. I believe all the gedolim have said the US is a medinah of chesed. The US is not perfect, as with the St. Louis ship episode, but we have much to be happy and proud about and to be thankful to the RBSH for all this goodness. When I take a car ride with my kids on vacation, my heart literally swells from seeing all this goodness.
Speaking of non-Jewish books, I suppose you wouldn’t approve of the non-Jewish song “America the Beautiful”, either. From my perspective, I find it one of the most inspiring and beautiful songs ever written, and think it is pure hakaras hatov to the RBSH as it says: G-d shed his grace on thee. This is what I mean when I say there are good people all around us, and many are not Jewish. I believe the writer of this song was one who truly felt the goodness which we have here in the USA and wanted to thank G-d for it with his whole heart.
I am told that a generation ago, frum yeshivas used to sing these patriotic songs before class. Now because we are so much more “advanced” than our parents’ generation, it is beneath our dignity to do so.
BS”D
Mybat, knowing who Jackie Robinson or Rosa Parks is makes sense only when you’ve learned gantz Shas with meforshim ten times over. In the real scheme of things, they are specks of dust, symbols more than anything else. Besides, they as unconnected to us as lehavdil Sarah Schenirer or R’ Shraga Feivel Mendlowitz would be to a black person. Can I expect a US public school to teach about Sarah Schenirer as an example of women in education? Nope. We are supposed to be different and apart and so are our heroes.
I would not even expect a public school Holocaust class to mention Reb Elimelech Tress ZTL.
I’m very proud that I used to think Placido Domingo was the name of a Latin American guerilla leader, and cared little when someone set me straight.
That is because I don’t enjoy opera or think it is anything but bitul zman, and I don’t do business in Latin America either so when I read the online papers I gloss over the articles about anyone with a Spanish name who isn’t directly threatening Yidden (like Chavez YMS).
On the other hand I’m not proud of the four years I wasted in an Ivy League university learning kefira and useless material that I never used in my career, though I had little choice in the matter because of the way I was raised. I do not care that I know who Voltaire or Rousseau or Plato were and what they wrote or that I know who the Jacobins were and who Jinnah was. I’d only find value in reading the philosophers again if I found myself doing kiruv work with those who were taught that it supplanted than Torah chas vesholom, which pretty much was what we were taught.
I will not raise future generations in the same way, and I’d be as proud of a child of mine graduating from where I did (undergraduate, not professional which is another matter indeed) as I would be if I had offspring in Federal Koilel.
BS”D
First of all I did not say bad. I said klipa. A non-Jewish government’s chessed is not from kedusha, it is from what is good for itself.
We now see what is happening in the medine shel chessed, and it is only a matter of time before India and China take over and the US becomes like Germany or England both in terms of being just a minor power and in terms of having a severe problem with Muslims. I for one believe it is punishment for not allowing Jewish refugees in during the war; also it is because of multiculturalism where cultures that do not encourage industry and success are now admired and everything is instant and Mc.
The only patriotic song I sing is Hashem Hu Malkeynu, which should be the anthem of the frum Jew and may be one day as it is going mainstream. It teaches and reminds us Who the real leader of the world is and that when confronted with anything that denies our beliefs, whether in a democracy or a dictatorship, we must go in fire and water to sanctify G-d’s name.
The non-Jews are good when they see Jews being better. I see this every day here where I live. We are proud and different and separate and get treated accordingly. In the US, where most Jews are secular, I see a begrudging acceptance of Jews in general and certainly no great admiration. In Europe where Jews hid their identity, we all know what happened and continues to happen.
When the medine delivered decisive victory, Jews were admired. Then, Jews showed a lack of hakoros hatov for the nissim that saved a shlimazel state from being driven into the sea and the medine started to act like a US “Federation” Jew. That was the beginning of the end which now has the medine reviled throughout the world and even non-Zionist Yidden suffering as a result from anti-Semitic attacks and lack of proper response.
We need to be separate and distinct and proud. Practical knowledge for parnossoh is one matter, and their values are another matter. Quotes out of context from Gemoro mean nothing. Cleanliness from the cat – sure. Can we keep a cat at home? Lots of restrictions make it very hard to do so.
BS”D
The writer of America the Beautiful was just writing a popular song for his culture, the way Yossi Green writes popular songs for our culture. The difference is that 99% of the time Yossi Green does not write the lyrics; he takes them from Torah and sets them to music which is pleasant for our ears.
The song came from a very different America, and frankly it is cheesy and cheap and reminds me only of silly public school assemblies and silly kids dressed in red, white and blue just as Soviet kids dressed in red.
If you want to have some fun, google Afghanistan the Pitiful, which was written after 9-11. I think it was posted on a Google Group and may be difficult to find. It is as much a parody of America the Beautiful as an anti-Taliban satire.
600 kilo
My husband graduated with honors from an ivy league as well. If you ask him if he would allow his children to attend that type of university his answer would be yes. If you were to ask him to allow them to study in a kollel he would be very happy. But your children should be prepared so that they should have all the necessary tools for whatever path they choose to take in life. This is not to idolize American revolution heroes or anything like that even attending a university doesn’t garranty success.I hope you understand my point.
mominisrael
Much Hatzlacha in all your endeavors. Thank you for asking your question. I hope you heard your answer.
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