No, you don't own the parking spot you dug out for the next two weeks

In my alter heim people would put folding chairs and other obstacles to let people know that this spot was not up for grabs.

Is that on the books legally, or just understood?

Not for two weeks, though. Maybe two days.

Under the Lockian theory of property rights you now own the spot because you made significant improvements to the otherwise unused land. It’s the same theory that the American colonists used to justify their capture of Native American territory, or what some people use to justify the settlement of Eretz Yisrael (we took arid, unusable land from Arabs and made it productive farmland). GET A GUN AND PROTECT YOUR RIGHTFUL PROPERTY!! DONALD J. TRUMP 2016 You did the work, you should enjoy your spot.

Thank G-D for driveways.

This notice is posted on the web site of my NJ township’s department of public works:

“Citizens are reminded that it is illegal to attempt

to unlawfully reserve street parking.

Doing so may risk removal of offending material as

the case requires.”

Of course, many people are either unaware of or ignore that rule.

A well-respected posek in my town lives near the train station where there’s a lot of competition for parking spots, especially when snow piles block a bunch of them. When I attempted to use the cleaned out spot in front of his house, he came out and forbade me from doing so, claiming that it was reserved for his wife’s car.

I understood his position all too well and I did eventually find a spot quite a distance from the train station, but I was not a happy camper.

Was this well-respected posek paskening l’halacha that it belonged to him? Isn’t he a Nogeia Badavar?

He might have made a Chazaka, but as every not-so-well known posek knows, Kol Chazaka Sheain Imo Teineh, Aino Chazaka. He would first have to had purchased the parking spot from the city or township, and then made his improvement.

He could however claim ownership to all of the hefker snow that he moved, with a kinyan hagbaha. Of course, he might not want to admit that, because he might be a mazik if he piled it up in front of someone else’s parking spot or driveway.

My daughter made a cogent statement today, and I think it OUGHT to be a law. If I spent money and/or time, and physical labor to dig out my car, then for three days after a snowstorm, there should be a law that only the person who dug out the spot may use it. After that, it’s up for grabs. I live next door to a Yeshiva/Shul, across the street from another Yeshiva, and there is another Shul being built on my block. I have already been greatly inconvenienced by inconsiderate people who blocked my driveway a couple of feet, which made it impossible for me to get into my driveway without risking breaking an axle.

Should someone ALSO benefit from the money that I paid out to a couple of guys to dig me out, just because I left my house briefly to buy needed staple items? It’s not right. It might be legal, but it is really unmenschlech. And no, I have never done that to anyone else. Moreover, when this was done to me last year, the person who parked his car didn’t move it for two days. I am not a youngster anymore (so my knees tell me), and it is extremely painful and teacherous for me to carry groceries or even just walk on the snow and ice, from a parking spot all the way down my block. People should not be so thoughtless. I understand I do not OWN the spot, but at least don’t steal it out from under me until after a COUPLE of days after the storm. Bad enough when it happens in beautiful weather.

Well, at least she agrees with you that you don’t own it for two weeks.

Joseph, I do not think it is right for someone to steal the spot I or anyone else either dug out with our own hands, or paid good money to have someone else dig. And yes, I think it is reasonable to have to wait for a couple of days (if not three) after a storm, unless they were in that spot to begin with. Otherwise, they should leave a note with a phone number where they can be reached, so the person who dug out the spot can return and ask them to move. FOR TWO DAYS OR SO. That is not unreasonable. What IS unreasonable, is for someone to watch and wait for me to leave, then immediately chaap my space, and then stay there. That has happened to me more than a few times, and I AM NOT A HAPPY CAMPER!!!! Winter brings out the non-best in me…

Sorry, Oomis, as frustrating as it is, the spot does not belong to you. You didn’t pay for the spot, you paid to get your car out.

Your driveway, OTOH, is yours, and you have a legitimate complaint against someone who blocks it.

Why don’t you just park in your driveway?

Oomis, in many OOT cities, the rule you propose is actually the rule. It works well, since this way people actually shovel out the spots instead of just moving enough snow around to get their car out.

However, the reason that isn’t the rule in NY, is that there are not actually enough spots on the street for everyone to be parked there at the same time. So if your rule were the rule, the people who were at work, or wherever, when the snow fell, would not be allowed to come home for your two days. (And it isn’t as if they could park on the next block–there’s someone taking every spot there also.)

So while I sympathize with your digging out your car only to have someone else grab the spot, I also sympathize with the dude who went to Lakewood for shabbos and now has zero spots to park in in NY (under your rule).

Snow in NY really stinks. Well, actually, NY really stinks.

OOmis

First just to clarify You didnt dig out a spot you dug out your car. (If there was a empty spot that you went ahead and dug out so that you can put your car there, then I agree nobody should park there before you do)

More importantly though. when you left the spot where did you park? You do realize wherever you parked was dug out too thes now didnt fall leaving you empty spots at wherever you may need to be in the next few days. right?

Are you suggesting that for a couple of days people should only be allowed to park in stores with parking lots? Does this really make sense to you?

People who commute to work shouldnt go to work unless their office provides parking?

And someone who was out of town for the storm cant park at all for a few days after the storm?

Do you realy think any of the above are reasonable?

NY stinks much worse when it snows, because they don’t pick up the garbage.

At least its frozen so it isn’t rotting.

The problem is the idiots who clear away the snow from parking spots and then the garbage starts rotting there again.

Did the guy die?

Cuz if not, he probably learned his lesson.

Was that a suggestion to Oomis?

Bluhbluh Long Branch?

The Goq: No, not Long Branch. I think it’s best that I not provide info that might lead to identifying that individual (I could have provided it to begin with).

As they say: Loose lips sink ships. 🙂

Oomis, while I feel your pain, I completely disagree with you. This is called life in the big city. Sometimes it stinks, but you obviously feel the positives outweigh the negatives and continue to live in the big city. You want your spot, dont move the car. they are blocking your driveway, have them towed. You need groceries, call the store and pay for delivery. You want your own parking spot waiting for you every time you come home, then buy a house with a driveway and enforce your rights to your driveway.

Now I understand why my kids behave the way they do. They probably know some of yours and learned to copy their behavior

It took me no longer than half a minute to determine which town you referred to.

In New Jersey there is a difference between a town and a city.

The one who dug it out doesn’t own it for the next two weeks, but if anyone else wants to take it, they should first have to move all the snow back and then dig it up themselves.

Do you have a driveway?

Yeah. Wondering the same thing. Didn’t you indicate you own a driveway?

“We have a car, and my daughter has a car.”

You have one house on the block, but two cars? I think we should pass a law, one car per home, why should you have a right to take up more parking spaces than homes you own on the block?

So, what it really boils down to is that in general, snow or no snow, you live on a block that many people come and look for parking every day and you have to compete with them day in and day out. Compounding your frustration is that some of those people dont respect others and hog two spots. Your frustration is further compounded when it snows and parking becomes that much more difficult. Despite your frustration, you are not guaranteed a parking space on your block. If you wish to guarantee yourself a spot work with the local politicians to institute residential parking only. Perhaps have one or two handicapped spots created and get a permit. Your age and/or physical limitations are a) not known to everyone who passes through and is looking for parking and b) does not guarantee you a parking space unless it is a clearly designated spot and you have a permit to park in such a space. This doesnt mean people should be mean, but that is entirely different than “I shoveled it, its mine”. Perhaps if you tried a different approach and appealed to the mench in people you might be pleasantly surprised.

“I don’t want to be moser on them.”

For what it is worth, I have asked my own Rav and was told this is not being “moser”.

Your last parapgraph only reinforces our disagreement. It is not your spot or your neighbors spot. Your frustration will simply grow for as long as you live in a highly trafficked area.