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Why did the YI in America say tachnun today? Haniyeh just got killed באבד רשעים רינה?
Right. We should check with Mossad every morning whether there is a reason for no tachanun based on whatever else they are doing.
When I asked once, I was told – you can say tachanun now, but will not need for Mincha …
C’mon, we are still in galus! There is no Beis Hamikdash. We are apprehensive of reprisals by Hezbollah, Hamas and Iran! We are in the middle of Bein Hametzorim, there is now more then ever a need to beg Hakodesh Boruch Hu for Rachamim!
The Torah says don’t celebrate when your enemy fails rather he’s Jewish or not and also rather it’s in business as your competitors failing or a personal failure that happened to your enemy. It’s a direct issur from the Torah to celebrate when your enemy fails.
1) Why does YI have different halachos than any other shomer Torah? I would think the question would be did anyone not say? Why did everyone say? Why bring in YI?
2) Do we know if this good or bad?
3) The reason we don’t say tachanun on ,say, Yom Tov, is because they are yimei din. Tachanun is mi’orrer din, so on days of din we don’t add dinmy minyan did not say tachnun yesterday it was Sharges Areah yartzit
Sam Klein it doesn’t say “whether he’s Jewish or not”. That statement refers to your Jewish enermy. On the other hand, we have Pesach, Purim, and Chanukah all of which celebrate the defeat of enemies who tried to destroy us, like HAmas. So in theory we should celebrate, but this is only one person and not the entire organixation so probably not yet.
@Sam Klein
When a Goy has a mapala we are permitted to rejoice. Stop reading Opinion columns and learn Perek Alef of Megilla.
Sam Klein
It’s not so simple. There are pesukim that say not that way. The mishnah berurah says we don’t say full Hallel after the first days of Pesach because it’s focused on kriyas yam suf and the mitzriyim died there. However many explain the contradiction that you can’t say Hallel, as that represents the ultimate joy, but one is able to just feel happy. Ask any mainstream rov and hear what they say. There is for sure no Issur min HaTorah to rejoice over the enemy’s downfall. Maybe it’s not a good thing, maybe it is. It depends, each situation is different.
IDK what to make of this, especially since we need to get the hostages back before we do what we have to in Gaza. This hit was satisfying, but probably also not smart to do before all hostages are back
coffee: According to R’ Schachter shlita, Yom ha’Atzmaut and Yom Yerushalayim are considered steps in the geulah, so they have a din of a quasi-Yom Tov. That would explain why there’s no Tachanun. Killing an enemy likely isn’t considered such a step.
Sam,
As others have pointed out, while from the drowning Egyptians it would seem improper to celebrate, there other Gemaros that imply otherwise, so stop spitting out blanket issurim.
Here is the Gemara that Pekak referred to:
Megilla 16a:
אֲמַר לֵיהּ: סַק וּרְכֹב. אֲמַר לֵיהּ: לָא יָכֵילְנָא, דִּכְחִישָׁא חֵילַאי מִימֵי תַּעֲנִיתָא. גְּחֵין וּסְלֵיק. כִּי סָלֵיק, בְּעַט בֵּיהּ. אֲמַר לֵיהּ: לָא כְּתִיב לְכוּ: ״בִּנְפֹל אוֹיִבְךָ אַל תִּשְׂמָח״? אֲמַר לֵיהּ: הָנֵי מִילֵּי בְּיִשְׂרָאֵל, אֲבָל בְּדִידְכוּ כְּתִיב: ״וְאַתָּה עַל בָּמוֹתֵימוֹ תִדְרוֹךְ״.Haman then said to him: Mount the horse and ride. Mordecai said to him: I am unable, as my strength has waned from the days of fasting that I observed. Haman then stooped down before him and Mordecai ascended on him. As he was ascending the horse, Mordecai gave Haman a kick. Haman said to him: Is it not written for you: “Do not rejoice when your enemy falls” (Proverbs 24:17)? Mordecai said to him: This statement applies only to Jews, but with regard to you it is written: “And you shall tread upon their high places” ( Deuteronomy 33:29).
Chanukah and Purim together with all the other times throughout the year that we say Hallel are said to thank Hashem for the open miracles done to klal yisroel and saving klal yisroel NOT to celebrate our enemies destruction which is a issue straight from the Torah
@Sam Klein,
I seem to recall that the Beni Yisroel said Az Yashir by krias Yam Suf.
Much of the shira specifically relates what happened to the mitzrim, and their downfall.
“What heter was there for bachurim to dance when they heard the news?”
I suspect it was a spontaneous reaction to what most of us consider great news and while you may be an exception, most yidden don’t stop consult with or seek a heter from their LRP when reacting spontaneously.
Evil people die all the time. If it was clearly a miracle (נס) or if he was someone threatening our existence, it might be an occasion for the gedolim to declare a yuntuf. The individual killed was a soldier fighting Medinat Yisrael, who in accordance with traditional of soldier everywhere and everywhen, specialized in killing civilians (technically illegal under international law, especially if your side loses the war). Since Nazi soldiers died on every day of the year (not heard, they lost millions and there are less than 400 days, so it is as mathematical certainty that every day is the anniversary of the death of a Nazi). Note than during World War II, which was a real threat to our existence, we didn’t cancel tachnun to celebrate the death of a Nazi. And the act he was killed in a very ordinary way by the Israeli forces makes it a stretch to say it was a miracle..
@nisht, When you have someone of the caliber of Moshe Rabbanu to lead the dancing then its acceptable to dance
Moshe Rabbenu sang az yashir when he saw that the destruction of the mitzyim brought the Jews to emunah.
“I guess a spontaneous reaction is all of a sudden מותר”
Who said it is “mutar”. The point was that except for highly disciplined individuals such as David Hamelech and Coffee Addict, a spontaneous reaction is one that typically doesn’t involve prior thought and halachic analysis. On hearing news of the destruction of someone who has caused incredible death and destruction, its a normal human reaction to show joy and even c’v a few dance steps before pausing to consider the appropriate response protocols.
> when he saw that the destruction of the mitzyim brought the Jews to emunah.
That was when Yidden saw the Mitzri army fully destroyed. At this point, it is appropriate to continue tehilim for safety of Yidden in EY.
Coffee why would you ask me that question? I didn’t know that bochurim were dancing at all, and I can’t say why they would have been. I’m not a Rabbi, and I definitely don’t know what psak someone else may have received.
What is YI?
Common,
1) Previous posters were asserting that Kris’s Yam Suf was proof that one should not say shir, or celebrate upon the downfall of enemies. Which is bogus, because the Beni Yisroel did say shira.
2) We typically look at what Moshe Rabbeinu did to learn from.
Bottom line is באבוד רשעים רינה.
“Where did you get smicha from”
Harvard Divinity School with a specialization in Yetzer Horah Studies
When a wasp lands on your nose while dining on your patio, I’m sure you immediately call your LRP and frame a shaylah with respect to the appropriate way of “neutralizing it” w/o any inyan of t’zar balei chayim or even worse, having the niftar drop off your nose on to your brisket sandwich.
GH,
Does your Am Hoaratzus, with all the attendant attributes described in the Gemara, which you constantly and readily display stem from a lack of mature discipline, or are they two different failings?
Yes, people who learn Halacha, take it seriously and are disciplined do know how and when to act. That is one of the defining attributes of frum people, certainly those who are חרדים אל דבר ה׳
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