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I was walking today, and saw a man who was clearly on a different level of religiosity than me (I could tell by the way he was dressed).
With Rosh Chodesh Tammuz coming up, I’m aware that the Beis Hamikdosh was destroyed because of baseless hatred.
So I need a basis on which to hate him.
I noticed two things he was doing wrong.
1) He has a smartphone.
2) He was smoking.Which one is worse? Which one should I make a thread about saying what a chillul Hashem he’s making?
Both?
1) He has a smartphone.
2) He was smoking.Is it possible that he needs the smartphone to stay in touch with a Smokers Anonymous support group?
I thought it was because of free hatred. I always make sure to extract a price
Write about how the smartphone is worse than the smoking but the smoking is also worse than the smartphone, which makes them mutually worse than each other, causing an explosion of evil.
Thanks. I actually used to post under the name Joseph
I thought that was me.
If it wasn’t working, that makes it bitul zman.
So I need a basis on which to hate him.
I noticed two things he was doing wrong.
if you think he was doing something wrong that isn’t baseless
Is that really pba? long time…
Anyway, obvs the phone is worse. One will kill you, one will send you to hell.
Toi, the cigs are also worse, because the death they cause is a suicide. Like I said, they are mutually worse than each other.
Dy,
Yes how else is chinam transalated?
Sinas Chinam only applies when someone gives you Tochacha, it doesnt apply when you give it to others
What is sinas chinom? It says לא תשנא את אחיך בלבבך, do not keep you hatred bottled up in your heart, הוכח תוכיח את עמיתך go admonish your friend. Explains the Yad Joseph on the Ein Yaakov Yoma 9 that this is an inexcusable hatred. When the hatred is excusable, he will tell the person the reason for his hatred bringing peace , but if it is not, like jealousy, he will not divulge his hatred and he will show a friendly face continuing the hatred.
Sinas Chinam only applies when someone gives you Tochacha, it doesnt apply when you give it to others
But what if you are the others and the others are you?
Without valid basis (which is a pretty high bar)
I never knew baseLESS means valid base
Chinam means free not worth very little
See the Rashbam Vaykro 19:14.
DY, I agree. Hating someone for dressing differently is real sinas chinom because you will not tell the person hated since it is not an excusable hatred.
It is a valid base it is not sinas chinom because you will not keep your hatred bottled up and will tell the person being hated bringing peace. See the Rashbam above and the Yad Joseph quoted above.
Since it is important I will quote the Rashbam -If he does bad to you, don’t get to hate him (talk to him with nice words and in your heart plan against him) but admonish him for the bad deeds he has done to you which will eventually lead to peace. Says the Yad Joseph above that this only works for excusable hatred for offenses normally being hated for but for others he will not tell the hated individual because he has no valid reason to hate him, so he will keep his hatred bottled up in his heart causing sinas chinom.
Sinas Chinom is futile hatred with no benefit because the person hated will not change his ways causing hatred forever.
See רש”י in :שבת לב that חנם means where it’s not justified להלכה, and see משך חכמה in כי תצא that it’s almost never מותר.
The Torah is realistic. People tend to hate each other when they do bad to them. So the Torah says don’t hate him but tell him about it. If you don’t tell him about it, it is still asur to hate but not sinas chinom but hatred bottled up in the heart. If you will not tell him about it because it is not a valid reason to hate him, you will have sinas chinom which will fester forever. If a person is a known rasha, you allowed to hate him so not to learn from him.
What I said before is not correct. There is another level of sinas chinom where someone hates someone when he has a valid reason to hate him and does not tell the person about it but keeps the hatred bottled up in his heart. If he is a known rasha, you allowed to hate him so that you should not learn from him, אל תתחבר לרשע like it says don’t befriend a wicked person.
I hear,
So Sinas chinam is called baseless because the only time there’s a basis to hate someone is only when it’s l’halacha
To all Am Haaratzim here:
Sinas Chinum applies even to people you are allowed to hate!
That’s why we are still in Golus.
Prove me why I’m right!What’s wrong with a Smartphone? One of the participants in one my shiurim has one and helps contribute info. What are those who think differently doing here?
Health, what does sinas chinom mean to you? if you are allowed to hate is it chinom?
What does the phrase, “Sinas Chinum applies,” mean?
laskern -“Health, what does sinas chinom mean to you? if you are allowed to hate is it chinom?”
Now you’re getting it.
Obviously Chinum is Not the same in a person that you are allowed to hate!
I’ll repeat – “Sinas Chinum applies even to people you are allowed to hate!
Prove me why I’m right!”
I’ll give a hint – Look in one of the Masechtos in Moed.Maybe chinom means free with no restrictions since you are allowed to hate him.
How do u know his phone wasn’t meushar.
Also what was he wearing that gave u the idea that he wasn’t so religious?laskern -“Maybe chinom means free with no restrictions since you are allowed to hate him.”
No, it means – for No reason at all!
So why aren’t you allowed to hate a person that you’re allowed to hate?!?
Start Moed again! It’s in the end of a certain Masectah.For more about sinas chinam and smartphones, see the thread “Aren’t Smartphones Assur?” started by MasmidInTraining.
DaasYochid-It’s very nice that you’re working on yourself in terms of sinas chinam, but instead of looking for an excuse to hate him, be dan l’kaf zechus and look for an excuse not to hate him. If you can’t think of a way to be dan l’kaf zechus, just forget about it, and excuse it as “he probably had a reason”, which is none of your business, and get on with life. Smoking is horrible (and אסור), as is unfiltered internet (as you can see in the recent “Aren’t Smartphones Assur?” thread, I’m not sure why people are complaining about smartphones when the real problem is unfiltered internet. Perhaps you can shed some light on this.) Sinas Chinam, along with not being dan l’kaf zechus and labeling, are undoubtedly worse.
If he looked more religious than you, any flaw in his behavior is utter hypocrisy.
Really no hatred is baseless since the hater will always have what he considers a valid basis. And who are we to determine what is and isn’t valid? Therefore, there is no such thing as sinas chinom and we should all hate each other as we please, as the Torah instructed us to.
Stay tuned for more YCT teshuvas.
NC, Look at my posts the Rashbam and the Yad Joseph. If you have a valid reason to hate him, don’t keep the hatred bottled up in your heart, but tell him about it.
Sinat chinam means hating someone because he has a different opinion or because he hurt you personally (this is the aveira of netira). Ahavat chinam is loving him because he opposes you. Rav Kook said that opposition comes to tell people where they are erring. The Mekor Baruch, in fcat, quotes the Tzemach Tzedek as saying that the Chassidim owed a debt of gratitude to the Gra for preventing them from becoming another heretical breakaway movement.
there’s even a word describing one negative aspect. “Phub.”
Huh. I’d not heard of that before.
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