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I’m talking about applying for a national/international company not a heimishe one. So your point about YK and forgiveness is incorrect in this case.
The ease with which you justify lying for financial gain is disturbing. I wasn’t aware that M’dvar Sheker Tirchak only applied between Jews or only applied if you thought there might be future consequences.
The Wolf
Troll (maybe a familiar one)
some points…
1- this swiet username is confusing
2-non heimish companies are MOST likely to do a background check, and every job I’ve held has done so, even when my position was only an intern.
3-most people who are succesful without college degrees own some sort of business (a good ex of this is all the diamond dealers on 47th st). But if you dont want to have a business and have a career, you need a degree to even be considered.
4-have you heard of bulka college?
Last, I really think it will be good for you to finish. For job prospects, and to know that you completed something. From my first semester I wanted to quit college. I hated it and felt like it was getting me nowhere. After I graduated and didn’t have a job straight away I felt like I had wasted four years of my life- so trust me, i’ve been there. But in the end, things fell into place and I know now that quitting would have been so so stupid.
Please don’t listen to swiet. Never lie on a resume. Especially regarding education. Most employers do some sort of background check. Even if an employer misses it initially and you get employed, if the employer finds out about the lie, you can be fired for cause. And that follows you your entire career.
It doesn’t follow you. Former employers don’t pass on negative info, as a general rule, since they are afraid of getting sued. (If it went to court the former employer will have the burden of proof to demonstrate the info they passed on was accurate, and most corporations don’t want the burden even if they feel they are correct.) And worse comes to worse you can omit that employer from your CV.
It doesn’t follow you.
You just don’t get it, do you?
Leaving aside from the moment that you’re wrong about no one ever finding out (HR people talk, even if off the record), there’s just the fact that it’s flat-out dishonest and wrong. M’dvar Sheker Tirchak doesn’t stop at one’s resume. Prohibitions against fraud don’t stop at one’s resume either.
The Wolf
let’s not feed the troll….. oh wait, it’s too much fun to resist. Dear troll, if you are convinced it works, please by all means feel free to lie on your resume, I am not going to stop you.
Yeah. If you want to get a great job swiet, I suggest you put down that you have a phd in neurosurgery. That’s very well paying.
According to all studies done on the subject, college graduates make way more money than people who have high school degrees. I would stay and finish the degree- while the environment might not be conducive to Torah and spirituality, in the long term, you’ll feel more secure financially, and be able to live w/out worrying as much about money so yu can focus on Torah, mitzvos, and ruchniyus. It’s short term loss for a long term gain.
“even if it’s a degree in tennis and i’m applying to a dental office job?”
Perhaps, though a degree in tennis might not count for much anywhere. But any ordinary major would be fine no matter where you end up; you might be asked to talk about why you chose to work as a dental hygienist after studying english literature in college, but in my opinion that would make a good interview topic if you had a good story behind the decision (something better than simply that english people have bad teeth)
SaysMe – I wanted to write yesterday but didn’t have a keyboard available. Now that I have time to answer there are too many posts to read through so pick out the most intelligent, sensible posts and assume that I would have written the same thing had I had a chance.
Syag: LOL
SaysMe: Is it possible that there is something you don’t want to share with us that is causing your struggles? It doesn’t make sense that all of a sudden an A student becomes a C student and even considers dropping out.
That something, is probably the issue, more than any ruchnius issues. Or you would have transferred much earlier. Did you fail this semester or last semester?
You really don’t need the As for grad school. You should play whatever it is that is stressing you up into a story. It’s about playing the game right, and your grades are only a small part of the decision. They want diversity. Basically, everything that’s bad for shidduchim, is good for graduate school.
I hear you about summer classes.
“ruchnius pursuits, but don’t immunize. On your thread about brainwashing? yeah that stuff. and the words i hear, things i see- i’ve lost my sensitivity to too much of it.”
SaysMe, this sounds really interesting, but I honestly don’t really understand what you’re saying here. I do understand about losing sensitivity.
“Basically, everything that’s bad for shidduchim, is good for graduate school
Great line- and it’s so true!
I can’t believe that an allegedly frum Yid would even CONSIDER lying on ones resume. Have you never heard of geneivat da’at? Woe to you! Woe to your yeshiva teachers!! Woe to your parents who wasted their tuition money!!!
Besides, you WILL get caught. And fired. And possibly prosecuted. Of course, that is a good way to become a full time learner in a prison kollel. My rabbi is a prison chaplain and he would love a new chavruta. He won’t eat the prison food, though, as he doesn’t trust the hechsher.
Have you never heard of geneivat da’at?
It’s also geneivas mammon, as his salary is being paid on false pretenses.
Charlie: The top execs who got caught (as happens and is reported every 4 or 5 years) got away with it for decades before getting some promotion or something and it coming out. And compare that to the countless many many more who never got caught up. So, yeah, you can be fired. But meanwhile you had a high-paying job for many years that you would never otherwise have had. Oh, and show me a prosecution please for having an incorrect college degree listed on a CV. It never happens. And if you dig up some one in a million such thing, it is less likely than winning the lottery. Compare it to all the times that someone is caught and, at worst, he loses the job (he never would have otherwise have gotten) and nothing more. And the chances of even that much occurring is tiny.
you are wrong though. so stop trying to post that point.
Swiet,
How about if, instead of harping on the fact that you won’t get caught (on which you’re wrong, but let’s leave it for the moment), how about telling us how you justify it with regard to the prohibitions on lying, theft and fraud?
Or are you so amoral that everything’s okay with you as long as you can get away with it?
The Wolf
Oh, wait… swiet is Joseph?
Well then, that explains it — for he is a completely unrepentant liar and fraudster as evidenced by the use of multiple screen names.
The Wolf
getting real sick of this game, Joe
I always wonder if every troll is called Joseph and the original Joseph is long gone… Doesn’t make swiet any less of a troll though.
no, this is the real deal.
I always wonder if every troll is called Joseph and the original Joseph is long gone
It’s like the name pharaoh
SaysMe: Can you give me some concrete examples?
Saysme: If you want my take, its misplaced nostalgia of sorts. Most traditional employers right now are old school folks, and measure you by their own perhaps outdated standards. I got a BA so I want to see you do the same if you want to work with me. Why you were a philosophy major at Edison who decided to go for a career in finance is a story they can respect, even though logically it may make no sense to value that over no degree at all. As time passes employers will get wise to the online degree scam and learn to value it appropriately (as they did with BTL and then with Touro).
Government jobs are a different story and might have pay scales or requirements that incent or require the degree.
Again, this is all applicable when we are talking about a career that doesn’t have specific BA requirements. Obviously anything in the medical field is going to have specific requirements, but I’m talking about the careers where knowledge by any means is the requirement.
SaysMe: I wrote a long post to you, and then deleted it, because I don’t think you’re really interested in what I had to say.
It sounds to me like you’ve made up your mind. You want to be completely pure, college is making you less sensitive, therefore you are going to leave college.
It’s up to you. I think the posters in this thread have given you important information. I hope you process it and ask someone for advice before making a decision you may regret in the future.
it’s good for girls to go to college to support there husbands learning in kollel
SaysMe: Glad to hear that. Sorry but it’s just that I recently interacted with some people in a similar situation so I am familiar with some of the issues involved.
I’m glad that you are thinking it over. I sincerely think that you should stay in college.
Torah
You mind elaborating what saysme can be referring to and how college affects girls?
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