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What exactly is their thought when the go with the Arabs???
There just has to be some people who do the opposite of the norm. and they are the ones ya its a crazy thing.
There is no “thought”.
“Thought” assumes some level of intelligence.
First of all, it’s Neturei Karta.
Second:
There are two groups that call themselves “Neturei Karta” (actually, more). They can be divided in two groups, roughly.
About 80-90% belong to the ‘moderate’ wing which holds pretty strong demonstrations, burn Israeli flags, and the like. But they DO NOT cooperate with the Arabs in ANY WAY. They strongly oppose using the internet for anything as well.
Only 10-20% belong to the ‘extremist’ wing which go to Ramallah, Gaza and Teheran and love Ahmedinejad, the guys who went to Arafat’s funeral.
Read the Wikipedia article for more and for a pashkevil from the moderate group against the extremists (I wrote that section).
No offense, but can you please put the question into standard English? I have no clue what this means.
Since you’re curious, did you ask them?? Who are they anyhow, a different moslom sect?
Read their website by the same name. Better yet, read Netruna (True Torah Jews against Zionism) to understand the difference between mainstream anti-Zionists and NK.
I’ll put down money that this thread will be closed soon.
its so sad how these jew, who call themselves jews i should say, can go againts the jews like that! When I was growing up, I used to march in the Israeli Day Parade with my school and I used to see them, we’d ignore it. It was only when I started marching with my youth organization that we would do something about it. That was when we would all start dancing and singing as loud and as strong as we can in front of them to show them that we will NOT give into you and we will show you what realy Yiddishkeit is all about!
Bet this thread’s gonna close at any given moment. C’mon ranters! Go ahead and SHOOT cuz soon it’ll be time to close shop!
(Personally, I think they’re a bunch of fools not worth discussing.)
Yogibooboo
AMEN.
keep on doing that!!
They are a bunch of pathetic people who enjoy having a “holy cause” and revel in being hated for it, since it makes them feel like martyrs.
I feel bad for them.
Why should the thread be closed? There were articles on the main news page condemning them.
People need causes. For some people God and His Torah aren’t enough so they have to find something else. Preferably something that allows them to express their hatred for the Jewish people. Weberman v’siyato found the perfect solution — Tehran.
You may be surprised to find that IRL most NK members, even the fringe members, are gentle and softspoken people who wouldn’t hurt a fly. They’re extremely naive and tmimusdig and are really convinced they’re doing the right thing. And when Arabs come up to them and tell them, “I was ready to blow myself up in Israel but you convinced me that not all Jews are Zionists,” do you blame them for believing in their cause? To the best of my knowledge they’re included in ??? and we’re mechuyav to judge them favorably, even if we vehemently disagree with them (which I do).
msseeker; Not when someone validates Holocaust denial by attending a conference dedicated to that purpose. The bottom line is. As much as one might disagree with Zionist ideology or the very existence of a Jewish government in Israel, you do not make an alliance with bloodthirsty murderers who have one goal in their agenda . To kill Jews. Whatever opinion one has about them, they’re not so naive as to think the palestinian terrorists will stop their murderous actions due to the expressions of solidarity for their cause by the Naturei Karta.
I happen to live next to one of the heads of NK, and even if there is a moderate wing they do not represent NK. The NK is an extremist fanatic group. They themselves disassociate themselves from any moderates who claim to be NK.
“Whatever opinion one has about them, they’re not so naive as to think the palestinian terrorists will stop their murderous actions due to the expressions of solidarity for their cause by the Naturei Karta.”
Well, I know a few of them and I tell you they ARE that naive. (Please note, naive is a euphemism for stupid, but I didn’t say anything.) They suffer a lot for it, and they’re sure they’re moser nefesh for the greatest thing. The Arabs can be very charming and manipulative, and the NK members are just taken by their (false) warmth and friendliness. Look at the pics of A-jad and Bin Laden ym”s. Don’t they look like warm, gentle souls, much as Stalin ym”s did?
msseeker:
Megalgilin zecus al yedi zacai, v’chov al yedai chayev”
??????? ???? ?? ??? ????, ???? ?? ??? ????
True, but this is no reason for us to be ?? ??? ????. At least they have good intentions, unlike many true reshaim whom nobody on the internet would dare to besmirch as they do the NK.
I happen to live next to one of the heads of NK, and even if there is a moderate wing they do not represent NK. The NK is an extremist fanatic group. They themselves disassociate themselves from any moderates who claim to be NK.
The moderate NK disassociate themselves from the fanatics, and claim that the fanatics do not represent NK.
Bottom line? There are two groups calling themselves NK, each deligitimizing the other.
IMHO, I no longer consider them Yiddin. I would not use one for a minyan. I won’t eat their shechitah. I don’t trust their kashrus. I won’t let them intermarry with my family. I won’t drink or eat with them. They are to me, nochrim. Just plain old non Jews. I have refused to answer their kaddish in shul, minyan or not. tthey should not have aliyos, nor any other kibud in shul. They might as well go be mechalel shabbos for all I care. They are not self hating Jews. They are not Jews at all. I would not be mechalel shabbos to save one. They are simply non-entities. Husks of human beings.
msseeker: How in the world can I think that someone who violates the will of all the gedolim, including those on the Eidah Hachareidis, to be well-intended?
How can I think people, who knowingly misrepresent the words of the Chofetz Chaim and many others of his generation, “have good intentions”? (I say misrepresent, since all of their talmidim who were alive recently said so. Now, their talmidims talmidim say so. It reminds me of those who misrepresent Rabbi Miller and the Kasho Ruv posthumously)
Maybe and hopefully they somehow do have good intentions.
truth be told: I don’t think msseeker disagrees with you that the NK are very wrong. And go against the gedolim. Even someone “well-intentioned” can go far off the correct path.
But that being said, let’s put things into perspective. What they do is wrong, but it doesn’t kill anyone. It is bad P.R. Can you tell me what the greatest damage their actions cause, in your opinion? It makes us look bad. But what the Zionists do is far far worse and costs lives.
TBT: I highly doubt someone will put himself to shame, go against all rabbonim, allow himself to be poked fun of for his enjoyment. I really do think they’re veryy naive and narrow minded. Sadly, they think they’re heroic and doing the right thing. I’d rather say I pity them than hate them.
Grandmaster: I did not at all suggest who is worse. All I’m saying is, that some of them are knowingly incorrect in some of their actions. And I do believe they are putting us in danger.
(I may have the names wrong, but am pretty sure) The first time MH wanted to go meet Arafat ym”s, his father-in-law RAK went to the Eidah Hachreidis to stop him. Of course, he didn’t listen. So the Eidah went to the secular police, and had them stop him at the airport!
As a side point, if the Eidah went to the police to stop someone, you know they felt it was of up most importance. Either way, he knowingly violated his father-in-law as well as the Eidah.
So most don’t know (hopefully), but some sure do.
Ctrl Alt Del:
“IMHO, I no longer consider them Yiddin. I would not use one for a minyan. I won’t eat their shechitah. I don’t trust their kashrus… They are to me, nochrim. Just plain old non Jews.”
Having a crazy shitah does not make somebody a non-jew (and certainly not a “husk of a human being”!). If you would have said you consider them non-frum, we’d have what to talk about; but anybody who is born Jewish stays Jewish. No matter what they have done, no Jew “becomes” a goy.
That said, I once heard a Rov say (only partially in jest) that he would not count an arab-loving NKnik for a minyan, due to the fact that he’s obviously a shoteh…
Cntrl alt delete:
You are even mechalel Shabbos to save a goy mishum eyvo
Daas Yochid: you are right in theory, however the extremist faction of NK preceded the moderates by years.
Au Contraire. The normal NK’ers are the original’s who follow in the footsteps of the founding tzadik R. Amram Blau zt’l. The nuts going to the Arabs were never the official reps and just latched unto the NK name.
BS”D
There really is no Neturei Karta anymore.
It was never a movement or Chassidus to begin with; Reb Amram Bloy ZYA was not a rebbe; he davened in Mishkenois HaRoim and their mesivta is named for him. (His daughter, not his niece as I had thought, is married to a well known Chabad posek and his grandchildren are on Chabad shlichus in the Western USA and South America.).
NK was more of an organization that represented the various anti-Zionist groups, provided assistance and even created a parallel economy in Mea Shearim, and organized demonstrations.
The more official remainder of the NK is weak. Those who have taken the name for their own purposes are really just a ragtag band of oisvorfen from every kreiz and yeshiva you can think of (Beck is from Vizhnitz, Weiss is from Chaim Berlin and also tried Satmar and Vizhnitz before getting the boot and joining Beck, Cohen is supposedly a yekke of old British stock, Weberman is from the Malochim of old, Fryman is from YU, the London crew include Polish and Hungarian Chassidim etc).
The only reason they are not in cherem (well, Cohen is in super-cherem in Manchester) is that there is no kehilla in most of the places that they infest to place a binding cherem on them.
Peerim time is the right time to discuss these clowns. In fact Moshe Hirsch of not very blessed memory started off as the Purim Rov in Chaim Berlin years ago. He liked the attention so much that he married into a real NK family, broke with his family, and eventually became the Minister of Jewish Affairs for the PA. He was paid for his work, and his son lives quite well too especially for Mea Shearim.
600, your info is correct. Just a side note: I’ve heard several stories (from non-NK sources, presumably true) of frum Jews who got stuck in hostile Arab villages and saved their skins by claiming to be of MH’s people. One story happened in Belgium where some scary Arabs were harrassing Jews. One of them, a visibly frum one, started running and the Arab said, “Don’t be afraid, we know you religious Jews are against Zionism.”
So NK might have saved some lives or limbs. As tbt said above, ??????? ???? ?? ??? ????…
msseeker: During the intiffada, right when it started, a person I know personally drove to schem (it may have been beis lechem), not knowing that an intiffada began. When he arrived the soldiers were shocked, but told him not to stop for gas or anything on his return. Anyhow he got an Arab store to dress him and the members of his car up with shmattas on his head. He asked for the hamas style.
I guess you would say, ??????? ???? ?? ??? ????… and that hamas ym”s is ???????? Very weird logic
That Arab storekeeper is one of the ????? ????? ????? and should be publicly honored (unless this would endanger his life). What does Hamas have to do with it?
NK aims to enlighten the Arabs that Zionism does not equal Zionism, that in fact these two are diametrically opposed, and that real frum Jews are (or should be) anti-Zionists. It seems they have achieved their goal to some extent, possibly saving lives as a DIRECT result of their efforts. (While I vehemently disagree with their means, I’m all for their aim.)
“I no longer consider them Yiddin. I would not use one for a minyan. I won’t eat their shechitah. I don’t trust their kashrus. I won’t let them intermarry with my family. I won’t drink or eat with them…..”
There is another sect which qualifies for this category as well.
BS”D
Natrunia (Satmar) is legitimate and does indeed educate regarding anti-Zionism. Zionism is dead, and today’s post-Zionism is a real danger to Jews and Judaism, not that secular Zionism was much better.
The wannabe NK clowns hang around with our worst enemies, and in London one of them appeared as a witness for the defense in a case against an Islamic terror imam. Usually they endanger no one because even the yishmoelim don’t take them seriously anymore, but that one should have been put in cherem (he has a very generic first and last name so I’m not going to post it as confusion could result and harm could be done to an innocent man with the same first and last name).
The extreme NK spreads stories about having helped Jews in Iran etc as a way of legitimizing themselves. Those stories are urban legend. They could not even get the wife and children of the lunatic meshummad Youssef Khattab out of an Arab village.
The bloodthirsty yishmoeli vilde chayes in EY do not care one bit. They planted at least one bomb in Mea Shearim that was publicized. To them a Jew is a Jew.
Correction:
NK aims to enlighten the Arabs that Zionism does not equal JUDAISM.
Zeh l’umas zeh
You have non-frum Jews on university that are pro- Arab
You have frum Jews in Meah Shearim that are pro- Arab
You have non-frum Jews on university that are pro Israel
You have frum Jews in Meah Shearim that are pro Israel
Es hatzaddik v’es harashah yishpot ha’elokim
BS”D
You have non-frum Jews who know no better and are endangering Jewish lives with their foolish campus and political activism (J-street comes to mind).
Other non-frum Jews look to the state of Israel for their Jewish identity because that is what they learned at home and in afternoon Hebrew school. Both are tinokois shenishbeu at this point (2 generations ago both were porkei oil malchus shamayim). However, the behavior of the J-street crowd is pure rishus even if they know no better.
You have a handful of ragtag fools who are frum (filt mit rishus, veniker mitzvos) and are looking for attention and making a few bucks by visiting our enemies and demonstrating alongside them.
Frankly, the J-street crowd are a real threat to Jewish safety and not just to E”Y. We need to do more to reach the non-frum Jews who center Judaism around the state of Israel, as they do have Jewish identity and just need to be shown the way of Torah in a proper and non-judgmental manner.
The Ku Klutz Kartel should merge with the Phelps family of Westboro fame and go back to pre 1-a.
msseeker; From your posts (on this subject) it is obvious that you are “Dan l’Kaf Z’chus” ?? ??? ???? the members of this rag tag association. You look at them as a benign, somewhat naive, but essentially well meaning group. The reality is, however, that they are vicious, dumb fools. They’re being used as a propaganda tool by the arabs and Iran. To legitimize the murder of Jews. Let’s just look at one of their (Nat. Karta) most publicized actions. Attending the Holocaust (Denial) Conference. Even according to their own agenda, it was wrong to attend –and thus legitimize– that conference. Where is the anti-Zionism in that convention?! That was a purely anti-Jewish action. By standing shoulder to shoulder with the palestinians, they legitimize all their murderous, terrorist acts.
BS”D
Metro, what you said is correct except that even the soinim have realized that these fools are not of any use whatsoever. There is a video somewhere of the gantze pamalye (Snow Weiss and the six or seven dwarves) visiting Mad Mahmoud when the tzoirer came to speak at the UN in NY and even he pays them little heed.
And they’re not even fun for Peerim anymore. After MAF retired, they lost their entertainment value. He was so outrageous that it was obvious he was in it to get attention; I discovered his performances on Nitel Nacht 4 years ago and found them a great alternative to Lipa and the Yarmer Rov (the difference being that I laughed AT MAF whereas we are besimcha and laugh WITH the real badchonim). Weiss just doesn’t have that amateur badchan quality; he is more of an irritating crank.
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