9-9-9-9 Tefillos

Mekor?

As quoted on Kupat Ha’ir’s website:

The whole calculation is there as well if you’re interested.

GAW – I feel bad asking, but what’s Mestama? I hear it so much but I still have no idea what it means. Excuse my ignorance.

And I agree about Yovel, I’m not giving my approval about this whole thing, just a source that I have come across for those interested.

JF02 – LOL 🙂

The ninth month counting from what?

WIY: It’s a Machlokes Rishonim when Shmittah is. The Rambam has a calculation but disregards it in lieu of a tradition that the Geonim had.

We know when Shemittah was, in theory, because we know when B’nei Yisrael entered Eretz Yisrael. However, there is a Machlokes Tannaim whether Yovel counts as the first year of the next Shemittah cycle or not. To know when Shemittah is we would have to know that the Beis Din HaGadol never Paskened the way that we don’t Pasken now (or that they corrected it post facto if they ever did). That’s just one of the issues with knowing when Shemitah is. We assume we know, but we are not completely sure.

GAW – Aha! Thanks… You learn something new every day

There was a pamphlet in the Hamodia last week. That’s where I saw it. Check it out it sounds cool!

I had no idea till someone told me in school and we davened mincha early.

Can I ask a stupid question? Based on how I recall we Pasken, it’s not possible for this to be the 9th year of the Yovel cycle. It’s the 6th year of Shmitah. I thought we Pasken that Yovel doesn’t count as the first year of a Shmitah cycle, which would make this impossible. Am I wrong?

Sam2,

(sarcasm on) Stop being so smart. It’s getting hard for people to make hoaxes for money. (sarcasm off)

I also remember that there is a machloket whether Yovel is concurrent with the 7th Shemita or the year after it (4th perek of Gittin). Either way, this is not the 9th year from a Yovel. It’s the 13th.

This is related to Applewhite theorem which states:

(a) People are gullible and will believe anything, even claims that demand painful or suicidal observances;

(b) as long as the claim cannot be checked.

Sam

Thanks for crushing any neemanus that organization had left.

apushatayid: That’s not being fair to them. That’s just pointing out that they are lying. The campaign 4 years ago claimed to be the 9th year (and it is according to our count-if you assume Yovel still exists, that is). This year is the 9th year according to the Rambam, who we don’t accept (and who didn’t accept his own calculation in lieu of the Mesorah that the Geonim had). I have no idea what they used 2 years ago to claim it was the 9th year. I’d look into it, but I’m bored with this topic already.

WIY: From what I have heard, at least, they do put the money to very good use, don’t they? They really do help feed a ton of poor families. They just use mass superstition and scare tactics to get the money, which is quite underhanded.

may i just quickly point out that the :50- :53 minutes are not acourding to all opinions. if you read the hebrew on bottom it shows that one shita holds until :50. so its only six minutes not 9. just thought id point that out

🙂 Bump 🙂

That is so sick. No bracha comes from lying. Omigod, I can’t believe that aJewish organization would lie like that. SICK!

Herman Cain’s Guide to Tefilla. Like gavra said.

If they would run a campaign asking people to keep the taryag segulos, there would be many more shomrei mitzvos. A part of me says that this is really all part and parcel of reaching out to the “me generation”. No longer do people give to worthy causes, now they put money into a chineese auction in the hopes of winning a prize, the flashier the prizes the better the organization does. They are just tapping into the whats in it for me mentality, instead of dangling a new dining room set or trip to e’y in front of potential donors, they dangle a segula.

Layzer, they’re the problem!? Just read the negative comments here and elsewhere about Meshulachim, and all the wisecracks that Avaryanim managed to throw at an Ani. The fact that they have to invest so much to run such a campaign in order to get some Tzeddaka shows that a typed up sign in your Shul would not get you to donate.

In the ideal setting there would be no dinners, chinese auctions, colorful brochures, painted trucks and nagging Gabbaim. All we need is a note of what this organisation does and we’ll be knocking on their doors. Collectors shouldn’t need to go around the Shul. There should be a nice table set up for these Me’asim and everyone will come over and give Tzeddaka while smiling and nodding a thank you.

In this area there is a real Olam Hafuch. Those who spend every extra minute trying to make more money denigrate those trying to keep a Yeshiva afloat or sustain their family as money hungry.

Highly of what, bris menucha? Read the shaar blatt of the book, it says student of the arizal etc. etc. avraham ben yitzchak of Grenada. Obviously calling someone of that period “of Grenada” is strange so any other sources placing him before the expulsion. (Though if he was “of Grenada” he was clearly not a Gaon in the historical sense.)

HaLeiVi

The difference between a chinese auction and Kupat hair is that the CA gives you a chance to win a prize whereas KH PROMISES/GUARANTEES a prize (i.e. yeshuah).

Another difference: KH TAKES ADVANTAGE of people who are vulnerable, who need Yeshuos. CA’s don’t take advantage of anyone.

One more: CA’s have fixed prices per draw. No-one is encouraged to pay up life fortunes to enter.

3 years later and we have another 9-9-9-9 segula. Now kupat Hair is saying it is the 9th year of Birkas Hachama cycle…

all just pure corruption to get your gelt.

Hashem listens to your tefillos 24-7 WHEN THEY COME FROM YOUR HEART with truth & sincerity & not just babbled flying through davening without knowing what the words even mean.

Hashem listens even more on special occasions like yom kippur & other dates that have zechusim for certain types of tefillos like tu b’av for shidduchim tefillos etc…

BUT THIS 9999 is just pure corruption

catch yourself:

Catch yourself. I am among those who shudder when I view the use of segulos as a marketing tool. That is certainly not the intent of a segulah. We are certainly told plenty about how HKB”H is available, hears our tefilos, and even invites us to speak to him three times a day. Yet, there are many, many times we find that tefilos can get an extra push.

Why? Because there are such things as ???????, generally ?????? who “ride interference”. They are metaphorically the servants of the King who receive the tefilos and deliver them to the King Himself. One way to image this is to picture an ordinary person seeking to ask the King for something, who is turned away by these bodyguards because his behavior is seen as not befitting of someone who wants something from the King. “He is asking for ?????? But he is in violation of these mitzvos!”

There are various things that assist us in overcoming this resistance, and many of these are stated clearly in Shas, Shulchan Aruch, and numerous seforim from the early Gedolei Hador to the contemporary. Giving tzedokoh before davening, engaging in preparation before tefilo, the inclusion of baalei aveiroh in the minyan, davening in certain places (mekomos hakedoshim, kivrei tzaddikim,) etc. There are times when the receptivity to our tefilos is more certain, including Yomim Noraim, especially at Ne’ilah, during the process of several mitzvos such as Ner Chanukah and ner Shabbos, and when placed in situations in which we are able to overcome strong influences (example – when embarrassed by someone and not responding).

To challenge segulos, particularly those that come from reliable sources, is blasphemous. If the seguloh is to daven at a particular time, it does not mean to postpone tefiloh until then, or to ignore other responsibilities then. The Beis Yisroel – Gerrer Rebbe ZT”L missed Ne’ilah on Yom Kippur because he was attending to someone who was staying out of shul in defiance of the special day. The problem is not segulos. The problem is that they have been reformed into a marketable commodity. the organizations cast themselves as the owners of yeshuos, and that you can only be zocheh to be granted a yeshuah if you give them your money. That extreme is no more acceptable to me than the trashing of all segulos. And that is the problem with the 9-9-9-9 stuff.

TLIK – I am fully aware that many Segulos are mentioned by Gedolei Hadoros, including some that are in fact brought in the Gemara.

I do not profess to understand how these Segulos work. I do know that this question is discussed by the Meiri, who consistently takes a very rationalist approach. He explains, for example, that the Simanim on Rosh Hashana are meant for us to focus on what it is that we need, and what it is we need to do in order to merit that Hashem will provide us with our needs.

A similar approach can easily explain most, if not all Segulos (including all of your examples).

I do not deny, ?? ?????, the Kabbalastic side of these things, but I have a hard time believing that any of the authors who mentioned these Segulos, from Chazal on down to the present day, would sanction the way they have been hijacked.

Segulos, which were intended to buttress Avodas Hashem, have replaced it.

The Maharsha, as well, was fully cognizant of these Segulos when he commented on the Gemara in Berachos which I mentioned in my previous post. He says there that ???? ???? ?????? is intended specifically to contrast with such Segulos as ????? ?????? ?????.

The Iyun Yaakov (commentary to Ein Yaakov, written by the author of Chok Yaakov and Shvus Yaakov) states that ???? ???? ?????? is in contrast to ???? who went from place to place in an attempt to subvert the true ???? ???.

The writings of Rav Shamshon Refael Hirsch are replete with the idea that any means of trying to influence Hashem’s conduct of the world which is not based on the concept of ?? ????? ???? ????? ?????? ???? is, at the very least, in the spirit of Avoda Zara.

This is by no means a comprehensive, or even a representative, list of the Gedolei Hadoros who share this opinion. I would be surprised if it was not universally accepted.