New York State is Denying Access to Education to Anti-Vaxer Students

Syag Lchochma: “doomsdday – WRONG”

Not very intelligent “chochma”. What exactly am I wrong about? Do you believe a study of
32 pack a day smokers vs 34 pack a day smokers having the same cancer rate proves that smoking
does not cause cancer? Because that is what that study stated. (substitute vaccines for cigarette packs and autism for cancer).

Little I Know there are hundreds of papers/studies by PhD scientists stating that vaccines are harmful. Just because the Fake News covers this up, doesn’t mean these hundreds of scientific papers don’t exist.

The little I know.

yeh . one of the biggest Autisim expert in the US (who the governemnt themselves used as an Expert testimonial in court to say that vaccines don’t cause autisim ,) changed his view IN COURT AFFIDAVIT

and this is not some sort of dr or scinetist that had a license revoked, etc.. Even according to the government he is one of the biggest experts in usa. They don’t use some nobody for an expert testimonial in court to save themselves from a lawsuit.

(Dr. Zimmerman is a former Director of Medical Research at the Center for Autism
and Related Disorders at the Kennedy Krieger Institute and Johns Hopkins University
School of Medicine, and is regarded as the leading national authority on autism and
mitochondrial disorder.)

i will bring down some context

Dr. Zimmerman testified on November 9, 2016 that vaccines can
in fact cause autism and even answered “Yes” when asked under oath: “Do other people in
your field, reputable physicians in your field, hold the opinion that vaccines can cause the
type of inflammatory response that can lead to a regressive autism?”

Dr. Zimmerman further testified that once HHS understands and accepts the causal relationship between
vaccines and autism, “it will prevent the development of autism in quite a few children”

Dr. Zimmerman’s similarly credentialed colleague, Dr. Richard Kelley, also provided
the following very revealing testimony in a deposition under oath:
Lawyer: Do you agree with the statement that vaccines do not cause
autism?
Dr. Kelley: No
Lawyer: Is it generally accepted in the medical community that
vaccines do not cause autism?
Dr. Kelley: It is a common opinion.
Lawyer: It is generally accepted in the medical field that vaccines do
not cause autism?
Dr. Kelley: I have no basis to judge that. It is most often
when physicians are commenting on that they say there
is no proven association.
Lawyer: Do you know the position of the American Academy of
Pediatrics about any link between vaccines and autism?
Dr. Kelley: Yes. They also say there is no proven
association.
Lawyer: Do you agree with the position of the American Academy of
Pediatrics?
Dr. Kelley: I agree with their position as a public health
measure. I don’t agree with it scientifically.
Lawyer: You are actually arguing for a link between vaccines and
autism in this case, aren’t you?
Dr. Kelley: I am.
Lawyer: And that is contrary to the medical literature, isn’t it?
Dr. Kelley: It’s not contrary to the medical literature that
I read. It is contrary to certain published articles by very
authoritative groups who say there is no proven
association in large cohort studies.
Lawyer: Your opinion is contrary to, say, the opinion of the CDC,
correct?
Dr. Kelley: It is contrary to their conclusion. It is not
contrary to their data.

(NEED ANY BETTER WORDS!!!)

Neville Chaim Berlin

If you did research and then claim that we are retarded then maybe you have an opinion.

But to say that people who say that when there is a רעותא in the safety, you need to study the safety before putting yourself at risk. (even when we might be saving someone else .חייך קודמים)

(there are thousand of people that got injured right after vaccine which surely makes a big רעותא in the חזקת ברוא so we are obligated to guard our health and not put outself in danger)

so to use a Mashal imagine when there is a Johny that several times he entered a house and they later found someone dead in that house . It doesn’t mean that Johnny killed him . Corolation doesn’t EQUAL causation .

but would you ever let your son go together with this Johny to a house before knowing 1000% for sure that Johny didn’t kill all these people?

so who is mental retarded?

the person that wants safety studies or the person that says Corolation doesn’t EQUAL causation. we don’t know if johny killed them so he lets his children alone with johnny?

and the government doesn’t want to study the safety because they will be liable in trillions of dollars and give an excuse that its not ETHICAL … .

so if you can answer the question that are ICAN sent to the HHS secretay (Dec 2018) in a response to the answer that HHS sent them or explain to me why anything is not a valid question then , ok I hear you.

but being ignorant and anyone that studies it or wants answers you just say that they are mental retarded…

Folks, Syog LChochma said I was “wrong” but refused to say what I was wrong about!

Syog LChochma refused to answer this Yes/No question: Do you believe a study of 32 pack a day smokers vs 34 pack a day smokers having the same cancer rate proves that smoking does not cause cancer?

SL gives this Fake excuse for not responding to my challenge: “Since you don’t listen to or process anything other than your own words”

This is a LIE! I respond to and QUOTE the claims of the Vaccine Injury Deniers (AKA Pro-Vaxxers) and then I refute their claims. When SL can’t refute what I wrote, SL claims it’s “a waste of time to respond”. That’s what people who LOST the argument say!

Syag Lchochma

horray … now you won me … this is what all the pro-vaccine religion do – that anyone that asks questions about their religion they say that there is no point to answer becuase your crazy or won’t listen anyway..

i am in NY and i am going to have a problem with school.

and if you can answer me the question that the ICAN sent to the HHS secretay (Dec 2018) in a response to the answer that HHS sent them. OR explain to me why anything there is not a valid question then , yes, I would be ready to give vaccines to my children .

but no. you won’t even check it out . because if someone doesn’t belive in the governement then he is for sure a crazy person.. and his research of course is non-sense .. then yeh you won..

Neville ChaimBerlin

really you compare alumunim foil to vaccines????

if there would be thousands of children that right after they started eating from aluminim foil they had seizures or became autisitc , etc. then Yes I would have stoped using alumunim foil until i know that proper studies are done to insure that its safe. even if corolation doesn’t EQUAL causation …

and i think YOU TOO WOULD.

ubiquitin people haven’t forgottten . they didn’t care then to read all the nonsense that people are writing . (at least I didn’t)

but now that the NYS made this school issue . I am more pained and frusterated that when i saw this post i had to respond.

“. And for MMR the study would have to be MMR vs 100% Unvaccinated.”

No it wouldnt
AND just in case it would, those studies have been done too ”

CAN YOU PLEASE SHOW ME WHERE THOSE STUDIES ARE???

ubiquitin

“Wrong! Anti-Vaxxers have asked CDC for 100% Vaxxed vs 100% Unvaxxed. CDC refuses. Why?

This question has been answered over and over and over. ”

yeh, can you give me an answer that makes sense to a normal human being???
(besides the stupid ethical answer which totally doesn’t make sense. because when someone is sick then everyone agrees that its NOT ethical to give the sick guy medicine that has NOT YET been proven to be safe . (remeber the 2 million dollar campaign a week ago for saving a a child life because the FDA didn’t approve the medicine over 2 ) But when someone is HEALTHY then its NOT ETHICAL to deny him medication that <i> might < /> prevent him from becoming sick. DOES THIS MAKES SENSE TO YOU????? not to me )

“2. The Study does not prove that MMR does not cause Autism. If cancer rate is the same for 32 pack a day smokers vs 34 pack a day smokers, that does NOT prove smoking does not cause cancer! ”

Ubiquitin: no…

Ubiquitin, you just admitted that the Vaccinated + MMR vs Vaccinated (no MMR) does NOT prove that
“MMR does not cause cancer”. THANK YOU for admitting the study is FRAUD.

“this is what all the pro-vaccine religion”
Tip: You can just call it Judaism. It’s quicker that way.

“really you compare alumunim foil to vaccines????”
Do you not realize that I was quoting you with that post? If so, then you are an extremely effective troll, and you have my utmost respect. If this is the case, I know you can’t admit to it, but from one angry internet loser (me) to another, just know that it’s a job well done.

Doomsday,
we went through this several months ago and you did not answer my question. Look back at my question and respond with an answer al pe halacha and not according to your own thinking and rationale.

Dooms,

What made you come out of hiding?

If you really believe you have the answers and knowledge , why did you leave the old thread?

All the points you mention here were already handled. You were exposed. So why fo at this again when you failed earlier?

Ubiquitin cites a Vax vs Unvax study: The effect of vaccination on children’s physical and cognitive development in the Philippines. A scientist, VaccinePapers, DEBUNKED this study and I explained it to you in the old thread. To repeat:

a. This study is invalid because the “vaxxed” PHILIPPINE children in this study only got ONE dose of aluminum containing vaccine by age two vs SIXTEEN doses of aluminum for AMERICAN children! That’s
625 mcg of aluminum (Philippine) vs. 4,925 mcg of aluminum (American). So this study proves ZERO about the SAFETY of the AMERICAN CDC Vaccine schedule!

b. There were only 85 “vaxxed” children (who got way less vax then CDC schedule). The autism rate is 2% – you would need HUNDREDS of vaxxed children to get even a FEW autism cases, so this study is invalid because it is much too small.

c. This study was NOT randomized. The Vaxxed children has Richer, Better Educated Parents so probably INHERITED higher IQ which is why Vaxxed children scored better on tests then unvaxxed children who had poorer, less educated parents (lower iq parents). Also vaxxed children had more food and clean water then the unvaxxed children, which also effects test scores.

d. The study did not look at HEALTH Outcomes – only height/weight and test scores. So the study did not look at the rate of asthma, allergies, diabetes, epilepsy etc. in the vax vs unvax.

DD:

You’re back at this again. I have read your analysis of the research, and can engage in interpreting things differently, perhaps even disputing the findings. But I won’t engage in that. It’s bitul Torah, and the parshiyos we are reading now are way too interesting and packed with wealth to sit and rehash the old debates.

All I say is that there is an overwhelming mass of scientists that reach an opposite conclusion, and they are not all being bribed by big pharm. I accept the mainstream conclusion and have no interest in your slant.

Ubiquiton: “you claim a you want a vaxxed study vs unvaxxed. One is done and the new complaint is “but the vaxxed werent vaxxed enough”

On the old thread I stated that vaxxed meant 100% vaxxed PER CDC SCHEDULE. The CDC schedule has EIGHT TIMES the aluminum of the Philippines Schedule in the study. 625 mcg aluminum vs 4,925 mcg aluminum. So it proves ZERO about the safety of the CDC Schedule.

Also, we are talking about AUTISM which has a rate of 2%. It is IMPOSSIBLE to see if even the Philippine Schedule causes Autism with only 85 Vaxxed. You would need HUNDREDS of VAXXED in order to see even a few cases of Autism – even with the CDC schedule which has EIGHT TIMES as much aluminum as the Philippines Schedule. Nice try, but no cigar.

Abba
“it’s about educating the anti-vaxer students that are being denied an education.”

My neighbor doesn’t believe in clothing. (He thinks they cause autism which is more likely than vaccines given how many studies there are on vaccines)
He insists on sending his children to yeshiva that way.
The yeshiva said they can’t come like that.

Is the yeshiva wrong ?
What do you want from their father he was shavya anafshei an issur hanaah on clothing ?
what about the kid’s education?

“Many parents only vaccinate their children because the yeshivas requires it.”

BH!
Exactly why such rules exist

Honest
” they didn’t care then to read all the nonsense that people are writing . (at least I didn’t)”

And there you have it. you are simply not interested in the truth. Kudos to you for admiting that so openly. Make no mistake we all knew that, I’m just surprised at your candor.

In case you decide to read this :
1) This question has been answered over and over and over. ”

“yeh, can you give me an answer that makes sense to a normal human being???”

sure! 1) it won’t change anything and we all know that. So why invest money in a study that won’t change a thing
2) Yes it isnt ethical
you say “which totally doesn’t make sense. because when someone is sick then everyone agrees that its NOT ethical to give the sick guy medicine that has NOT YET been proven to be safe .” I dont know what this means. nobody agrees to that. This is such nonsense. Studies are done on human subjects all the time. I try to get patients enrolled in such studies when there is no proven cure available, then maybe an experimental drug might help. What gave you this wrong notion.
” (remeber the 2 million dollar campaign a week ago for saving a a child life because the FDA didn’t approve the medicine over 2 )”
Yes. why?
” But when someone is HEALTHY then its NOT ETHICAL to deny him medication that <i> might < /> prevent him from becoming sick.”
Not might, that has BEEN PROVEN.

Heres a question. would it be ethical to study if parchutes save lives of those who fall out of airplanes? these are healthy people. So lets throw some out without a parachute. Especially when there is no study proving that parachutes help.
Even if let people self enroll in the parachute study. “Oh I was going to jump anyway” do you see the downside of allowing such a study to go forward? now granted the comparison isnt exact becasue There are far far far more studies proving the efficacy of vaccines than parachutes., but still hopefully you get the gist

” DOES THIS MAKES SENSE TO YOU????? not to me ”
Hopefully now it does.

“CAN YOU PLEASE SHOW ME WHERE THOSE STUDIES ARE???”
I provided one
happy?

Of course not!
after all “didn’t care then to read all the nonsense that people are writing”
hey at least your honest about your dishonesty

Ubiquiton, you are correct that a RETROSPECTIVE study is not randomized but looking at a Million 100% unvaxxed compared to the rest of the population that has an Autism rate of 1:50 and learning disability rate of 1:6 would easily prove that Vaccines cause autism and learning disabilities.

I have no problem with doing a PROSPECTIVE study (randomized) but you Vaccine Injury Deniers claim it is “not ethical” so the only alternative is a RETROSPECTIVE study – which you reject because “not randomized”.

Bottom Line: Vaccine Injury Deniers refuse to ANY KIND of Vax vs UnVax Study and have all kinds of excuses! Because they know Vax vs UnVax Study would prove that vaccines do more harm than good! So the Government must wipe out the 2% Unvaccinated to ensure there never can be a Vax vs UnVax Study – destroy the CONTROL GROUP (Unvaxxed) and Cover Up all the harm done by Vaccines. Very clever.

NC

“With all due respect, you’re wasting your time. ”

I know, but I have trouble letting things go. sometimes I stick around for fun but this one isnt even fun so it is just my hangup

“Logic did not create them, and therefore logic cannot destroy them.”
Very well said. thank you

Dooms
“We know 100% of people who fall from that high die.”

False, like every one of your posts. Look up vesna Vulovic. True most people wh fall that height without a parachute die, but that is due to the healthy cohort effect. Most if not all peopl wh jump out of an airplane without a parachute are already suffering from a mental condition.

“but looking at a Million 100% unvaxxed compared to the rest of the population that has an Autism rate of 1:50 and learning disability rate of 1:6 would easily prove that Vaccines cause autism and learning disabilities.”
And if the reverse is true you’d say and I quote ” The Vaxxed children has Richer, Better Educated Parents so probably INHERITED higher IQ ” So what exactly would be gained. i’m wasting time discussing this with you, do you really think the answe is more time (and money ) wasted
as a wise man said ” Logic did not create them, and therefore logic cannot destroy them.”

OH Boy ubiq!! They have finally done it! They have finally presented an argument SOO ridiculous it can’t even be responded to. The REAL reason for vaxing folks, here it is:
🎺 ” It’s about eliminating the 2% who are still Unvaccinated so there can never be a Vaxxed vs UnVaxxed Study.” 🎺
Mods- you can close the thread.

Abba_s,

The supreme court has ruled that the choice of whether or not to vaccinate does not fall under the category of civil rights, especially during a breakout.

I don’t understand why parents want to send their children to a school that believes such outdated conspiracy theories such as that vaccines are safe. If they believe that, then who knows what else they believe and are indoctrinating my kids with. Maybe they’re even part of the conspiracy and are being paid off by big pharma?!?! These schools are blind sheeple who just eat up whatever the government tells them.

Abba
“a few yeshivas tried to ban their anti-vaxer students but the state wouldn’t allow it because of the religious exemption”

Correct, now do you not see how absurd it is to want to send your child to a yeshiva (ie a religous instituion) but not follow THEIR policies claiming “religous exemption”?

“Kidnapping these almost 5,0000 children beside being a capital offense according to both secular and Jewish law”

Um no its a capita offence accoring to neither . And at any rate. Isn’t children’s education worth it?

“Do you think you can get far”
We dont need to get far, we can set up mobile vaccination stations

“and the anti-vaxers will be onto you ”

meh we will tell them we are injecting a natural remedy of kale and alfalfa sprouts , we are not talking about the smartest bunch here all we need is a celebrity endorments and they will be all for it.

“and you are dumping the schooling on the parents”

wrong wrong wrong.

THEY are dumping it on themselves, I am not sure why you are struggling wit h this .
If a person refuses to dress his kids, you grant that the yeshiva doesnt have a responsibility. It is the exact same thing here.
A school can make any rule they want, no homes with TV’s unfiltered internet, filtered intenet, parent in kollel, smartphones, not-smart phones, or even no pro-diseasers.
Do you grant a yeshiva’s right to any of the above rules?

why not no pro-diseasers?