New And Returning Members!

A6KB, whether you want to admit it or not, the fact that you bothered saying goodbye says something. There was always an option to email a mod and you chose this. Again, I wish you hatzlacha in everything.

*kapusta*

A600KiloBear you sound like you haev been through a lot in life. I can only imagine the pain and hardships that you have and are enduring. But ask yourself this and if you struggle with the answer that means that you still believe there is master for this complex world.

If you truely belive that there is no reward and punishment than please agree to pass to me all the rewards for your good deeds past, present and future. And in turn you will take all the sins that I have and continue to accumulate in life. Its a win win situation. I win because I will leave this world with many rewards and no sins and you will lose nothing since after all you don’t believe in this anyway.

So can you please agree to give me all your rewards and take my sins?

you really don’t believe in G-D?! (what happened to the BS”D on top of every post?!!

helpishere- I’d like to welcome you (being that after all is said, this is the welcoming thread). But you’re not new. So- a thank you from the CR for stepping in.

feivel- thank you; I knew you’d come through. Didn’t you once mention you were a professor on atheism?

Left.

Just as I said once that I would have rather gone to the gas singing Ani Maamin than lived only to sing Hatikvah in a soccer stadium, I would do what I believe is true and that is the end of it.

The following is a later edit by the poster, after Feivel’s all-cap response:

edit i did not read that. I have no problem with the existence of a creator who set the world in motion; I just do not believe any higher power runs the world now or that we must worship this creator or creating force.

You were right because I did not read properly. See above. I’d probably try to bust out of it and if not I’d choose right. The existence of a creator does NOT mean the existence of a deity who presently controls the world.

Intelligent design. OK, that’s something. The Clockmaker who went away. It is an old argument, and many of the world’s most highly respected scientists believed it – including Isaac Newton. feivel, I doubt that it has ever been disproven on a purely logical basis. It certainly has many shortcomings, but I can only see the next step (that G-d is “assah, oiseh, v’yaaseh) as a leap of faith.

Even if evolution had been completley disproven (wich it most defenitly has not been! on the contrary just about evrey expert in the natrual sciences and evrey leading authority in the natrual sciences say it has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt) and the watchmaker argument was a valid argument it still wouldnt mean anything.

The idea that we, one small group of one species on one planet out of probably hundreds of billions of planets, cirling one star out of BILLIONS of stars, in one galaxy out of BILLIONS of galaxies, in a universe so massive that even if we were to travel at the speed of light for hundreds of millions of years we would not even cross a fraction of it, are the reason this universe is here seems to be an extreme leap of faith.

We are not going to have another long debate about evolution in this thread. If anyone wants to repeat the evolution debate please start a new thread or continue in General Shmooze2. This will be the last post about evolution in this thread

“Even if evolution had been completley disproven (wich it most defenitly has not been! on the contrary just about evrey expert in the natrual sciences and evrey leading authority in the natrual sciences say it has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt)”

(This was last publicly updated August 2008. Scientists listed by doctoral degree or current position.)

Paul Ashby Ph.D. Chemistry Harvard University

Philip Skell Emeritus, Evan Pugh Prof. of Chemistry, Pennsylvania State University Member of the National Academy of Sciences

Lyle H. Jensen Professor Emeritus, Dept. of Biological Structure & Dept. of Biochemistry University of Washington, Fellow AAAS

Maciej Giertych Full Professor, Institute of Dendrology Polish Academy of Sciences

Lev Beloussov Prof. of Embryology, Honorary Prof., Moscow State University Member, Russian Academy of Natural Sciences

Eugene Buff Ph.D. Genetics Institute of Developmental Biology, Russian Academy of Sciences

Emil Palecek Prof. of Molecular Biology, Masaryk University; Leading Scientist Inst. of Biophysics, Academy of Sci., Czech Republic

K. Mosto Onuoha Shell Professor of Geology & Deputy Vice-Chancellor, Univ. of Nigeria Fellow, Nigerian Academy of Science

Ferenc Jeszenszky Former Head of the Center of Research Groups Hungarian Academy of Sciences

M.M. Ninan Former President Hindustan Academy of Science, Bangalore University (India)

Denis Fesenko Junior Research Fellow, Engelhardt Institute of Molecular Biology Russian Academy of Sciences (Russia)

Sergey I. Vdovenko Senior Research Assistant, Department of Fine Organic Synthesis Institute of Bioorganic Chemistry and Petrochemistry

Ukrainian National Academy of Sciences (Ukraine)

Henry Schaefer Director, Center for Computational Quantum Chemistry University of Georgia

Israel Hanukoglu Professor of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology Chairman The College of Judea and Samaria (Israel)

Alan Linton Emeritus Professor of Bacteriology University of Bristol (UK)

Dean Kenyon Emeritus Professor of Biology San Francisco State University

David W. Forslund Ph.D. Astrophysics, Princeton University Fellow of American Physical Society

Robert W. Bass Ph.D. Mathematics (also: Rhodes Scholar; Post-Doc at Princeton) Johns Hopkins University

John Hey Associate Clinical Prof. (also: Fellow, American Geriatrics Society) Dept. of Family Medicine, Univ. of Mississippi

Daniel W. Heinze Ph.D. Geophysics (also: Post-Doc Fellow, Carnegie Inst. of Washington) Texas A&M University

Richard Anderson Assistant Professor of Environmental Science and Policy Duke University

David Chapman* Senior Scientist Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution

Giuseppe Sermonti Professor of Genetics, Ret. (Editor, Rivista di Biologia/Biology Forum) University of Perugia (Italy)

Stanley Salthe Emeritus Professor Biological Sciences Brooklyn College of the City University of New York

http://WWW.DISCOVERY.ORG

Bernard d’Abrera Visiting Scholar, Department of Entomology British Museum (Natural History)

Mae-Wan Ho Ph.D. Biochemistry The University of Hong Kong

Donald Ewert Ph.D. Microbiology University of Georgia

Russell Carlson Professor of Biochemistry & Molecular Biology University of Georgia

Scott Minnich Professor, Dept of Microbiology, Molecular Biology & Biochemistry University of Idaho

Jeffrey Schwartz Assoc. Res. Psychiatrist, Dept. of Psychiatry & Biobehavioral Sciences University of California, Los Angeles

Alexander F. Pugach Ph.D. Astrophysics Ukrainian Academy of Sciences (Ukraine)

Ralph Seelke Professor of Molecular and Cellular Biology University of Wisconsin, Superior

Annika Parantainen Ph.D. Biology University of Turku (Finland)

Fred Schroeder Ph.D. Marine Geology Columbia University

David Snoke Associate Professor of Physics & Astronomy University of Pittsburgh

Frank Tipler Prof. of Mathematical Physics Tulane University

John A. Davison Emeritus Associate Professor of Biology University of Vermont

James Tour Chao Professor of Chemistry Rice University

Pablo Yepes Research Associate Professor of Physics & Astronomy Rice University

David Bolender Assoc. Prof., Dept. of Cell Biology, Neurobiology & Anatomy Medical College of Wisconsin

Leo Zacharski Professor of Medicine Dartmouth Medical School

Michael Behe Professor of Biological Science Lehigh University

Michael Atchison Professor of Biochemistry University of Pennsylvania, Vet School

Thomas G. Guilliams Ph.D. Molecular Biology The Medical College of Wisconsin

Arthur B. Robinson Professor of Chemistry Oregon Institute of Science & Medicine

Joel Adams Professor of Computer Science Calvin College

Abraham S. Feigenbaum Ph.D. Nutritional Biochemistry Rutgers University

Kevin Farmer Adjunct Assistant Professor (Ph.D. Scientific Methodology) University of Oklahoma

Neal Adrian Ph.D. Microbiology University of Oklahoma

Ge Wang Professor of Radiology & Biomedical Engineering University of Iowa

Moorad Alexanian Professor of Physics University of North Carolina, Wilmington

Richard Spencer Professor (Ph.D. Stanford) University of California, Davis, Solid-State Circuits Research Laboratory

Braxton Alfred Emeritus Professor, Anthropology University of British Columbia (Canada)

R. Craig Henderson Associate Professor, Dept. of Civil & Environmental Engineering Tennessee Tech University

Wesley Allen Professor of Computational Quantum Chemistry University of Georgia

James Pierre Hauck Professor of Physics & Astronomy University of San Diego

Mark Apkarian Ph.D. Exercise Physiology University of New Mexico

Joseph Atkinson Ph.D. Organic Chemistry MIT

Dennis Dean Rathman Staff Scientist MIT Lincoln Laboratory

Richard Austin Assoc. Prof. & Chair, Biology & Natural Sciences Piedmont College

Raymond C. Mjolsness Ph.D. Physics Princeton University

John Baumgardner Ph.D. Geophysics & Space Physics University of California, Los Angeles

Glenn R. Johnson Adjunct Professor of Medicine University of North Dakota School of Medicine

George Bennett Associate Professor of Chemistry Millikin University

Robert L. Waters Lecturer, College of Computing Georgia Institute of Technology

http://WWW.DISCOVERY.ORG

James Robert Dickens Ph.D. Mechanical Engineering Texas A&M University

Phillip Bishop Professor of Kinesiology University of Alabama

Jeffrey M. Jones Professor Emeritus in Medicine (Ph.D. Microbiology and M.D.) University of Wisconsin-Madison

Donald R. Mull Ph.D. Physiology University of Pittsburgh

John Bloom Ph.D. Physics Cornell University

William Dembski Ph.D. Mathematics University of Chicago

Ben J. Stuart Ph.D. Chemical & Biochemical Engineering Rutgers University

Raymond Bohlin Ph.D. Molecular & Cell Biology University of Texas, Dallas

Christa R. Koval Ph.D. Chemistry University of Colorado at Boulder

John Bordelon Ph.D. Electrical Engineering Georgia Institute of Technology

David Richard Carta Ph.D. Bio-Engineering University of California, San Diego

Lydia G. Thebeau Ph.D. Cell & Molecular Biology Saint Louis University

David Bossard Ph. D. Mathematics Dartmouth College

Robert W. Kelley Ph.D. Entomology Clemson University

David Bourell Professor Mechanical Engineering University of Texas, Austin

Carlos M. Murillo Professor of Medicine (Neurosurgery) Autonomous University of Guadalajara (Mexico)

Walter Bradley Distinguished Professor of Engineering Baylor University

Sami Palonen Ph.D. Analytical Chemistry University of Helsinki (Finland)

John Brejda Ph.D. Agronomy University of Nebraska, Lincoln

Bradley R. Johnson Ph.D. Materials Science University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign

Rudolf Brits Ph.D. Nuclear Chemistry University of Stellenbosch (South Africa)

Gary Kastello Ph.D. Biology University of Wisonsin-Milwaukee

Frederick Brooks Kenan Professor of Computer Science University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

Omer Faruk Noyan Assistant Professor (Ph.D. Paleontology) Celal Bayar University (Turkey)

Neil Broom Associate Professor, Chemical & Materials Engineering University of Auckland (New Zealand)

Malcolm D. Chisholm Ph.D. Insect Ecology (M.A. Zoology, Oxford University) University of Bristol (UK)

John Brown Research Meteorologist National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration

Joseph A. Kunicki Associate Professor of Mathematics The University of Findlay

John Brumbaugh Emeritus Professor of Biological Sciences University of Nebraska, Lincoln

Thomas M. Stackhouse Ph.D. Biochemistry University of California, Davis

Nancy Bryson Associate Professor of Chemistry Mississippi University for Women

Walter L. Starkey Professor Emeritus of Mechanical Engineering The Ohio State University

Donald Calbreath Professor, Department of Chemistry Whitworth College

Pingnan Shi Ph.D. Electrical Engineering (Artificial Neural Networks) University of British Columbia (Canada)

John B. Cannon Ph.D. Organic Chemistry Princeton University

John L. Burba Ph.D. Physical Chemistry Baylor University

Stephen J. Cheesman Ph.D. Geophysics University of Toronto

Mike Forward Ph.D. Applied Mathematics (Chaos Theory) Imperial College, University of London (UK)

Lowell D. White Industrial Hygiene Specialist (Ph.D. Epidemiology) University of New Mexico

Brian Landrum Associate Professor of Mechanical & Aerospace Engineering University of Alabama, Huntsville

David Chambers Physicist Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory

Michael T. Goodrich Professor of Computer Science University of California, Irvine

T. Timothy Chen Ph.D. Statistics University of Chicago

Sarah M. Williams Ph.D. Environmental Engineering (emphasis in microbiology) Stanford University

http://WWW.DISCOVERY.ORG

John Frederick Zino Ph.D. Nuclear Engineering Georgia Institute of Technology

Shing-Yan Chiu Professor of Physiology University of Wisconsin, Madison

Todd A. Anderson Ph.D. Computer Science University of Kentucky

John Cimbala Professor of Mechanical Engineering Pennsylvania State University

Chris Swanson Tutor (Ph.D. Physics, University of Oregon) Gutenberg College

Kieran Clements Assistant Professor, Natural Sciences Toccoa Falls College

Jan Chatham Ph.D. Neurophysiology University of North Texas

George A. Gates Emeritus Emeritus Professor of Otolaryngology-Head and Neck Surgery University of Washington

John Cogdell Professor of Electrical & Computer Engineering University of Texas, Austin

David R. Beaucage Ph.D. Mathematics State University of New York at Stony Brook

Leon Combs Professor & Chair, Chemistry & Biochemistry Kennesaw State University

Laraba P. Kendig Ph.D. Materials Science & Engineering University of Michigan

Nicholas Comninellis Associate Professor of Community and Family Medicine University of Missouri-Kansas City

Stephen Crouse Professor of Kinesiology Texas A&M University

Cham Dallas Professor, Pharmaceutics & Biomedical Science University of Georgia

Charles N. Verheyden Professor of Surgery Texas A&M College of Medicine

Melody Davis Ph.D. Chemistry Princeton University

Thomas Deahl Ph.D. Radiation Biology The University of Iowa

Robert DeHaan Ph.D. Human Development University of Chicago

Gage Blackstone Doctor of Veterinary Medicine Texas A&M University

Harold Delaney Professor of Psychology University of New Mexico

Jonathan C. Boomgaarden Ph.D. Mechanical Engineering University of Wisconsin

William Bordeaux Chair, Department of Natural & Mathematical Science Huntington College

Michael Delp Professor of Physiology Texas A&M University

Keith F. Conner Ph.D. Electrical Engineering Clemson University

David DeWitt Associate Professor of Biology Liberty University

Aaron J. Miller Ph.D. Physics Stanford University

Gary Dilts Ph.D. Mathematical Physics University of Colorado

Gerald Chubb Associate Professor of Aviation Ohio State University

Robert DiSilvestro Ph.D. Biochemistry Texas A & M University

Daniel Dix Associate Professor of Mathematics University of South Carolina

Allison Dobson Assistant Professor, Chemistry Georgia Southern University

David Prentice Professor, Department of Life Sciences Indiana State University

Kenneth Dormer Ph.D. Biology & Physiology University of California, Los Angeles

Ernest Prabhakar Ph.D. Experimental Particle Physics California Institute of Technology

John Doughty Ph.D. Aerospace & Mechanical Engineering University of Arizona

Jeanne Drisko Clinical Assistant Professor of Alternative Medicine University of Kansas, School of Medicine

Robert Eckel Professor of Medicine, Physiology & Biophysics University of Colorado Health Sciences Center

Seth Edwards Associate Professor of Geology University of Texas, El Paso

Eduard F. Schmitter Ph.D. Astronomy University of Wisconsin

Lee Eimers Professor of Physics & Mathematics Cedarville University

William J. Hedden Ph.D. Geology Missouri University of Science & Technology

Daniel Ely Professor, Biology University of Akron

Pattle Pun Professor of Biology Wheaton College

http://WWW.DISCOVERY.ORG

Rosalind Picard Sc.D. Electrical Engineering & Computer Science MIT

Danielle Dalafave Associate Professor of Physics The College of New Jersey

Richard Erdlac Ph.D. Structural Geology University of Texas (Austin)

Michael C. Reynolds Assistant Professor of Mechanical Engineering University of Arkansas-Fort Smith

Bruce Evans Ph.D. Neurobiology Emory University

Gary Achtemeier Ph.D. Meteorology Florida State University

William Everson Ph.D. Human Physiology Penn State College of Medicine

Susan L.M. Huck Ph.D. Geology/Geography Clark University

James Florence Associate Professor, Department of Public Health East Tennessee State University

Douglas R. Buck Ph.D. Nutrition and Food Sciences Utah State University Fellow, American College of Nutrition

Margaret Flowers Professor of Biology Wells College

Mark Foster Ph.D. Chemical Engineering University of Minnesota

Suzanne Sawyer Vincent Ph.D. Physiology & Biophysics University of Washington

Clarence Fouche Professor of Biology Virginia Intermont College

Robert Blomgren Ph.D. Mathematics University of Minnesota

Kenneth French Chairman, Division of Natural Science Blinn College

Richard N. Taylor Professor of Information & Computer Science University of California, Irvine

Stephen C. Knowles Ph.D. Marine Science University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill

Marvin Fritzler Professor of Biochemistry & Molecular Biology University of Calgary Medical School (Canada)

Mark L. Psiaki Professor of Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering (Ph.D., Princeton) Cornell University

Walter E. Lillo Ph.D. Electrical Engineering Purdue University

Mark Fuller Ph.D. Microbiology University of California, Davis

Daniel Galassini Doctor of Veterinary Medicine Kansas State University

Stanley E. Zager Professor Emeritus, Chemical Engineering Youngstown State University

Andrew Fong Ph.D. Chemistry Indiana University

John Garth Ph.D. Physics University of Illinois, Champaign-Urbana

John K. G. Kramer Adjunct Professor, Dept. of Human Biology & Nutrition Sciences University of Guelph (Canada)

Glen O. Brindley Professor of Surgery, Director of Ophthalmology Scott & White Clinic, Texas A&M University H.S.C.

Ann Gauger Ph.D. Zoology University of Washington

Pamela Faith Fahey Ph.D. Physiology & Biophysics University of Illinois

Paul Brown Assistant Professor of Environmental Studies Trinity Western University (Canada)

Mark Geil Ph.D. Biomedical Engineering Ohio State University

Ibrahim Barsoum Ph.D. Microbiology The George Washington University

Jim Gibson Ph.D. Biology Loma Linda University

John W. Balliet Ph.D. Molecular & Cellular Biology University of Pennsylvania,

Post-doctoral Fellowship, Harvard Medical School

William Gilbert Emeritus Professor of Biology Simpson College

Joe R. Eagleman Professor Emeritus, Department of Physics & Astronomy University of Kansas

Dexter F. Speck Associate Professor of Physiology University of Kentucky Medical Center

Warren Gilson Associate Professor, Dairy Science University of Georgia

Raul Leguizamon Professor of Medicine (Pathology) Autonomous University of Guadalajara (Mexico)

Steven Gollmer Ph.D. Atmospheric Science Purdue University

http://WWW.DISCOVERY.ORG

Gene B. Chase Professor of Mathematics and Computer Science (Ph.D. Cornell) Messiah College

Chris Grace Associate Professor of Psychology Biola University

James A. Ellard, Sr. Ph.D. Chemistry University of Kentucky

Richard Gunasekera Ph.D. Biochemical Genetics Baylor University

Jennifer M. Cohen Ph.D. Mathematical Physics New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology

Russel Peak Senior Researcher, Engineering Information Systems Georgia Institute of Technology

Graham Gutsche Emeritus Professor of Physics U.S. Naval Academy

Olivia A. Henderson Ph.D. Pharmaceutics University of Missouri, Kansas City

Dan Hale Professor of Animal Science Texas A&M University

Robert L. Jones Associate Professor, Department of Ophthalmology University of California, Irvine

James Harbrecht Clinical Associate Professor, Division of Cardiology University of Kansas Medical Center

George W. Benthien Ph.D. Mathematics Carnegie Mellon University

James Harman Associate Chair, Dept. of Chemistry & Biochemistry Texas Tech University

Frederick T. Zugibe Emeritus Adjunct Associate Professor of Pathology Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons

William Harris Ph.D. Nutritional Biochemistry University of Minnesota

Thomas H. Johnson Ph.D. Mathematics University of Maryland

Paul Hausgen Ph.D. Mechanical Engineering Georgia Institute of Technology

Gregory A. Snyder Ph.D. Geochemistry Colorado School of Mines

Walter Hearn Ph.D. Biochemistry University of Illinois

Howard Martin Whitcraft Ph.D. Mathematics University of St. Louis

Nolan Hertel Professor, Nuclear & Radiological Engineering Georgia Institute of Technology

Joseph Francis Associate Professor of Biology Cedarville University

Roland Hirsch Ph.D. Analytical Chemistry University of Michigan

Todd Peterson Ph.D. Plant Physiology University of Rhode Island

Charles Edward Norman Ph.D. Electrical Engineering Carleton University (Canada)

Dewey Hodges Professor, Aerospace Engineering Georgia Institute of Technology

James P. Russum Ph.D. Chemical Engineering Georgia Institute of Technology

Marko Horb Ph.D. Cell & Developmental Biology State University of New York

Joe Watkins Military Professor, Department of Mechanical Engineering United States Military Academy

Barton Houseman Emeritus Professor of Chemistry Goucher College

Mark Pritt Ph.D. Mathematics Yale University

Edward Peltzer Ph.D. Oceanography University of California, San Diego (Scripps Institute)

Cornelius Hunter Ph.D. Biophysics University of Illinois

Rodney Ice Principle Research Scientist, Nuclear & Radiological Engineering Georgia Institute of Technology

Malcolm W. MacArthur Ph.D. Molecular Biophysics University of London (UK)

Rafe Payne Ph.D. Biology University of Nebraska

Muzaffar Iqbal Ph.D. Chemistry University of Saskatchewan (Canada)

Mark P. Bowman Ph.D. Organic Chemistry Pennsylvania State University

David L. Elliott Chair, Division of Natural Sciences/Mathematics Louisiana College

David Ives Emeritus Professor of Biochemistry Ohio State University

Amiel Jarstfer Associate Professor of Biology LeTourneau University

Stephan J. G. Gift Professor of Electrical Engineering The University of the West Indies

Tony Jelsma Ph.D. Biochemistry McMaster University (Canada)

http://WWW.DISCOVERY.ORG

Raleigh R. White, IV Professor of Surgery Texas A&M University, College of Medicine

Jerry Johnson Ph.D. Pharmacology & Toxicology Purdue University

Harold D. Cole Professor of Physiology Southwestern Oklahoma State University

Yongsoon Park Ph.D. Nutritional Biochemistry Washington State University

Richard Johnson Professor of Chemistry LeTourneau University

David Hagen Ph.D. Mechanical Engineering University of Minnesota

David Johnson Associate Professor of Pharmacology & Toxicology Duquesne University

Jay Hollman Assistant Clinical Professor of Cardiology Louisiana State University Health Science Center

Lawrence Johnston Emeritus Professor of Physics University of Idaho

Albert J. Starshak Ph.D. Physical Chemistry Illinois Institute of Technology

Robert Jones Associate Professor of Mechanical Engineering University of Texas-Pan America

Scott T. Dreher Ph.D. Geology (Royal Society USA Research Fellow) University of Alaska, Fairbanks

David Jones Professor of Biochemistry & Chair of Chemistry Grove City College

Robert Kaita Ph.D. Nuclear Physics Rutgers University

Kenneth Demarest Professor of Electrical Engineering University of Kansas

Edwin Karlow Chair, Department of Physics LaSierra University

Francis M. Donahue Professor Emeritus, Chemical Engineering The University of Michigan

James Keener Professor of Mathematics & Adjunct of Bioengineering University of Utah

Shawn Wright Ph.D. Crop Science North Carolina State University

Douglas Keil Ph.D. Plasma Physics University of Wisconsin, Madison

Dave Finnegan Staff Member (Ph.D. Chemistry, University of Maryland) Los Alamos National Laboratory

Micheal Kelleher Ph.D. Biophysical Chemistry University of Ibadan (Nigeria)

Christine B. Beaucage Ph.D. Mathematics State University of New York at Stony Brook

Rebecca Keller Research Professor, Department of Chemistry University of New Mexico

Gerald E. Hoyer Retired Forrest Scientist (Ph.D. Silviculture, University of Washington) Washington State Department of Natural Resources

Michael Kent Ph.D. Materials Science University of Minnesota

William A. Eckert, III Ph.D. Cell & Molecular Physiology University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill

Richard Kinch Ph.D. Computer Science Cornell University

Irfan Yilmaz Professor of Biology (Ph.D. Systematic Zoology) Dokuz Eylul University (Turkey)

Bretta King Assistant Professor of Chemistry Spelman College

Mauricio Alcocer Director of Graduate Studies (Ph.D. Plant Science, University of Idaho) Autonomous University of Guadalajara (Mexico)

R. Barry King Prof. of Environmental Safety & Health Albuquerque Technical Vocational Institute

Hiroshi Ishii M.D., Ph.D. Behavioral Neurology Tohoku University (Japan)

Michael Kinnaird Ph.D. Organic Chemistry University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill

Lasse Uotila M.D., Ph.D. Medicinal Biochemistry University of Helsinki (Finland)

Donald Kobe Professor of Physics University of North Texas, Denton

Martin Emery Ph.D. Chemistry University of Southampton (UK)

Charles Koons Ph.D. Organic Chemistry University of Minnesota

Miguel A. Rodriguez Undergraduate Lab. Coordinator for Biochemistry University of Ottawa (Canada)

Carl Koval Full Professor, Chemistry & Biochemistry University of Colorado, Boulder

Magda Narciso Leite Professor, College of Pharmacy & Biochemistry Universidade Federal de Juiz de For a (Brazil)

Bruce Krogh Professor of Electrical & Computer Engineering Carnegie Mellon University

Tetsuichi Takagi Senior Research Scientist Geological Survey of Japan

Daniel Kuebler Ph.D. Molecular & Cellular Biology University of California, Berkeley

http://WWW.DISCOVERY.ORG

Wesley Nyborg Emeritus Professor of Physics University of Vermont

Peter William Holyland Ph.D. Geology University of Queensland (Australia)

Paul Kuld Associate Professor of Biological Science Biola University

Douglas B. Matthews Associate Professor of Neuroscience Baylor University

Heather Kuruvilla Ph.D. Biological Sciences State University of New York, Buffalo

Nancy L. Swanson Ph.D. Physics Florida State University

Martin LaBar Ph. D. Genetics & Zoology University of Wisconsin, Madison

William B. Hart Assistant Professor of Mathematics University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign

Teresa Larranaga Ph.D. Pharmacology University of New Mexico

Yuri Zharikov Post-Doctoral Research Fellow (Ph.D. Zoology) Simon Fraser University (Canada)

Ronald Larson Professor and Chair of Chemical Engineering University of Michigan

Wolfgang Hutter Ph.D. Chemistry University of Ulm (Germany)

Robert Lattimer Ph.D. Chemistry University of Kansas, Lawrence

Robert J. Graham Ph.D. Chemical Engineering Iowa State University

M. Harold Laughlin Professor & Chair, Department of Biomedical Sciences University of Missouri

Samuel C. Winchester Klopman Distinguished Professor Emeritus (Ph.D. Princeton) North Carolina State University

George Lebo Associate Professor of Astronomy University of Florida

Kurt J. Henle Professor Emeritus (Ph.D. Biophysics, University of Pennsylvania) University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences

J.B. Lee Assistant Professor of Electrical Engineering University of Texas, Dallas

James O. Dritt Ph.D. Civil Engineering & Environmental Science University of Oklahoma

Matti Leisola Professor, Laboratory of Bioprocess Engineering Helsinki University of Technology

Manuel Garcia Ulloa Gomez Director of Marine Sciences Laboratory Autonomous University of Guadalajara (Mexico)

E. Lennard Sc. D. Surgical Infections & Immunology University of Cincinnati

Glen E. Deal Ph.D. Electrical Engineering Florida Institute of Technology

Lane Lester Ph.D. Genetics Purdue University

Paul Whitehead Ph.D. Chemical Thermodynamics University of Natal (South Africa)

Catherine Lewis Ph.D. Geophysics Colorado School of Mines

John R. Goltz Ph.D. Electrical Engineering University of Arizona

Peter Line Ph.D. Neuroscience Swinburne University of Technology (Australia)

Gerald P. Bodey Emeritus Professor of Medicine, Former Chairman Department of Medical Specialties,

University of Texas M.D. Anderson Cancer Center

Garrick Little Ph.D. Organic Chemistry Texas A & M University

John Nichols Ph.D. Mathematics University of Tennessee

Mark Bearden Ph.D. Electrical & Computer Engineering Carnegie Mellon University

Harry Lubansky Ph.D. Biological Chemistry University of Illinois, Chicago

Daniel L. Moran Ph.D. Molecular & Cellular Biology Ohio University

Fulbright Scholar

Ken Ludema Emeritus Professor of Mechanical Engineering University of Michigan

Jed Macosko Ph.D. Chemistry University of California, Berkeley

Nigel Surridge Ph.D. Electrochemistry & Photochemistry University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill

Christopher Macosko Ph.D. Chemical Engineering Princeton University

David Keller Associate Professor of Chemistry University of New Mexico

Allen Magnuson Ph. D. Theoretical & Applied Mechanics University of New Hampshire

Amy Ward Ph.D. Mathematics Clemson University

http://WWW.DISCOVERY.ORG

Shane A. Kasten Post-Doctoral Fellow (Ph.D. Biochemistry, Kansas State University) Virginia Commonwealth University

Robert Marks Professor, Signal & Image Processing University of Washington

Jesus Ambriz Professor of Medicine Autonomous University of Guadalajara (Mexico)

Julie Marshall Ph.D. Chemistry Texas Tech University

Jay L. Wile Ph.D. Nuclear Chemistry University of Rochester

David McClellan Assistant Professor of Family & Community Medicine Texas A&M University College of Medicine

Evgeny Shirokov Faculty Lecturer (Nuclear and Particle Physics) Moscow State University (Russia)

Andy McIntosh Full Professor of Thermodynamics and Combustion Theory University of Leeds (UK)

Mark A. Robinson Ph.D. Environmental Science Lacrosse University

Tom McMullen Ph.D. History & Philosophy of Science Indiana University

Martin Poenie Associate Professor of Molecular and Cell Biology University of Texas, Austin

Haim Shore Professor of Quality and Reliability Engineering (Ph.D. Statistics) Ben-Gurion University of the Negev (Israel)

Tony Mega Ph.D. Biochemistry Purdue University

Carl Poppe Ph.D. Physics University of Wisconsin

James Menart Associate Professor of Mechanical Engineering Wright State University

Theodor Liss Ph.D. Chemistry MIT

James Keesling Professor of Mathematics University of Florida

Brian Miller Ph.D. Physics Duke University

Christopher D. Beling Associate Professor of Physics The University of Hong Kong (China)

Art Nitz Ph.D. Anatomy & Neurobiology University of Kentucky

Thomas Milner Associate Professor of Biomedical Engineering University of Texas, Austin

David Ness Ph.D. Anthropology Temple University

Forrest Mims Atmospheric Researcher Geronimo Creek Observatory

S. W. Pelletier* Emeritus Distinguished Professor of Chemistry University of Georgia, Athens

Paul Missel Ph.D. Physics MIT

Victoriano Saenz Professor of Medicine Autonomous University of Guadalajara (Mexico)

David Monson Ph.D. Analytical Chemistry Indiana University

Hugh Nutley* Professor Emeritus of Physics & Engineering Seattle Pacific University

Terry Morrison Ph.D. Chemistry Syracuse University

Bijan Nemati Ph.D. High Energy Physics University of Washington

William Russell Belding Ph.D. Mathematics University of Notre Dame

Bridget Ingham Ph.D. Physics Victoria University of Wellington (New Zealand)

Paul Nesselroade Associate Professor of Experimental Psychology Asbury College

Kevin L. Kendig Ph.D. Materials Science & Engineering University of Michigan

Robert Newman Ph.D. Astrophysics Cornell University

Angus Menuge Ph.D. Philosophy of Psychology University of Wisconsin-Madison

Khawar Sohail Siddiqui Senior Research Associate (Protein Chemistry) University of New South Wales (Australia)

Janet Parker Professor of Medical Physiology Texas A&M University, Health Science Center

Scott Northrup Chair and Professor of Chemistry Tennessee Tech University

John Omdahl* Professor of Biochemistry & Molecular Biology University of New Mexico

Fazale Rana Ph.D. Chemistry Ohio University

Rebecca Orr Ph.D. Cell Biology University of Texas, Southwestern

http://WWW.DISCOVERY.ORG

Lawrence Overzet Professor of Engineering & Computer Science University of Texas, Dallas

J. Meredith Assistant Professor, Chemical Engineering Georgia Institute of Technology

Siddarth Pandey Assistant Professor of Chemistry New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology

Gordon Mills Emeritus Professor of Biochemistry University of Texas, Medical Branch

A. Clyde Hill Ph.D. Soil Chemistry Rutgers University

Stephen Meyer Ph.D. Philosophy of Science Cambridge University

William Purcell Ph.D. Physical Chemistry Princeton University

Paul Randolph Ph.D. Mathematical Statistics University of Minnesota

Christopher Morbey Astronomer (Ret.) Herzberg Institute of Astrophysics, National Research Council of Canada

David Reed Ph.D Entomology University of California, Riverside

Charles D. Johnson Ph.D. Chemistry University of Minnesota

J. Ishizaki Associate Professor of Neuropsychology (M.D., Ph.D. Medicine) Kobe Gakuin University (Japan)

David Rogstad Ph.D. Physics California Institute of Technology

Mark Shlapobersky Ph.D. Virology Bar-Ilan University (Israel)

Arthur John Jones Ph.D. Zoology & Comparative Physiology Birmingham University (UK)

Patricia Reiff Director, Rice Space Institute Rice University

Oleh Havrysh Senior Research Assistant, Protein & Peptide Structure & Function Dept. Institute of Bioorganic Chemistry & Petrochemistry

Ukrainian National Academy of Sciences (Ukraine)

W. Christopher Schroeder Associate Professor of Mathematics Morehead State University

Gail H. Allwine Professor of Electrical Engineering (retired) Gonzaga University

Dan Reynolds Ph.D. Organic Chemistry University of Texas, Austin

Andrew Steckley Ph.D. Civil Engineering University of Western Ontario (Canada)

Terry Rickard Ph.D. Engineering Physics University of California, San Diego

Arlen W. Siert Ph.D. Environmental Health Colorado State University

Mubashir Hanif Ph.D. Plant Biology University of Helsinki (Finland)

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Strangely enough, I know or knew one of the signators personally (unless the signator is someone of the same name and a similar position) from the early 90’s when he was trying to augment his low university salary by trading in textiles in Moscow.

And I don’t understand how the topic of evolution was ever brought up in response to my post.

I don’t know either, I certainly didn’t bring it up…80

I don’t even pretend to know whether evolution as described by Darwin is correct. Accepting evolution and denying the presence of a deity do not necessarily go hand in hand.

In any case, I really would appreciate having my account deleted. My farewell is final; I am different from you and really don’t have a place here.

Is anyone of us not different than another? Is the Morrocan the same as the Italian Jew? The Syrian the same as the Hungarian Jew? The Yemenite the same as the Yerushalmi?

R’ Itzik

You could never do damage, even supposing that everyone knows who you are. No matter how far you might choose to travel away from Yiddishkeit, anytime you return you are 100% full fledged member of Am Yisrael. As you said, there are plenty of examples of this.

Have you ever considered finding a new setting? ‘Change the place, change the mazal’. If you are uncomfortable where you are, perhaps there is a different place with more people who ARE like you.

A600KiloBear – we’re sorry to see you leave. If you want to stop by for a quick L’chayim on the “Alocholic mixes” thread – please feel free to do so anytime. It’ll be my greatest kovod!

alcoholic mixes?? now that is a real coffee thread! Nezdrovie-cholent! (absolut is my favorite..well, maybe some good glenfiddich is also good!)

where is that thread?

Itzik,

You are most definitely not different from people who believe in H-shem.

Those who have emuna are as varied a bunch as you will find anywhere in the world.

-there are Chasidim whose speech and thought are in Yiddish, and whose world revolves around their chassidus.

-there is the suave and polished businessman who effortlessly blends in with his WASPy business associates.

-there are those who have been professionally trained to debunk missionaries and therefore know much more of other religions than the average Jew does.

Based on the level of knowledge, sophistication and humor in previous posts, you are very worldly-wise and capable of fitting in with the secular world.

You have the smarts and experience to do a lot of good.

You can no more disassociate yourself from your Jewishness than you can from your humanity.

I wish you much hatzlocha.

600kilobear, I felt similarly as an older single. You’re not alone in feeling alone. The feelings went away when I got married, along with many questions of faith.

BS”D

Not so much of an effort to stay frum (in fact the lack of availability of junk and processed kosher food here helps me stay healthy) but the very opposite in fact – a very strong community which is like a fishbowl for a private person like me who does not put marriage and family ahead of career and does not like admittedly well meaning people to poke into his personal or even business life.

The only other alternative for me in the present economy is working in India while living in EY, and the prospect of living in EY, which is an even bigger fishbowl, is really not for me.

At least here I live far from the shul and can stay home if I want, behind my double doors and far from anyone from the community. It is only in shul and on Shabbos that the questioning and kibitzing starts and if I decide to I can live with that.

In EY your neighbor is (usually) Jewish and feels he has a need to know everything about you and to waste your time with stories and questions. On my last trip to Tverya I literally had to scream at a strange woman for peeking over my laptop screen in a hotel lobby – in EY looking over someone’s shoulder is not considered rude but in civil society it sure is. (You don’t want to know what I screamed at her in Yiddish to send her scurrying away in fear LOL!).

Living in India is going a little too far in terms of remaining private. Then again if there is a shul and a rav it might be enough for me if need be, at least temporarily.

itzik-

one thing you have to admit is nowhere else will people who don’t know you be upset youre leaving their beliefs. No other nation would everyone be crying and praying when 6 people in India who they don’t know are trapped.

Itzik,

I hear the problem with nosy people. And I agree it is a terrible middah.

But that is a separate issue. That is not the core of the problem. In my limited capacity, I can’t imagine that being THE cause here…

I don’t mean to be nosy (not funny), but can we take this apart?

1. You are an older single

2. You live somewhere in the Ukraine area

3. You value your privacy- extremely

4. You have big questions regarding faith

5. You are an intelligent & intellectual person

6. You have been in this matziv before

7. There is a major (bad) influence in your life which you mentioned you’ve walked away from in the past

This is all I (think I) know- I’m sure there’s much much more.

To tackle each point:

1. There is a lot of stigma and pressure regarding “older singles” in the Jewish communities. THIS REFLECTS NO FAULT OF YOURS.

Every older single goes through big nisyoinos. They don’t win every battle, some don’t win the war. But Hashem DOES give the koiyach to win. It’s up to you.

A lot has to do with perspective and emunah.

2 & 3. Living in a secluded close knit Jewish community is what causes this “fish bowl” you describe. There is nobody else to rely upon- you only have each other. Moving to a metropolis of Jews will ironically offer you the privacy you seek- even though it may be more “closed in” or “crowded with Jews” or “narrow minded”, you will most likely be less “bothered”. And you will also most probably be very close to major business areas.

4 & 5. GET THEM ANSWERED. You are not G-d (sorry). We all have questions- don’t let them fester until explosion time. Please.

If you find it difficult having deep personal conversations with a Rov and revealing your doubts, try starting online. There are numerous websites that offer “ask the Rov”. Shoot away- ask every question you have. They will direct them to the most appropriate party. And if you are not satisfied with the answers, that does not mean there isn’t a more satisfying answer available.

** If it took you all this research, knowledge and time to come up with the question- then it will take at least that much to come up with the answer!

6 & 7. I’ve taken the liberty to surmise that this person still has an effect on you; and that here lies the core of the situation. I can not speak further as I don’t have any other info regarding this matter. But if I am correct, then it is high time to remove yourself from this person’s reach and influence. You are only human and as such, you’re not above influence.

Do with this post as you wish.

All I know is that we care about each other- yes- kol yisroel areivim zeh lazeh. I really believe it.

– areivim

Itzik,

Regarding privacy, I can’t believe what you describe not to be an exaggeration. Every store owner, cashier etc.?? Why don’t they give me so much attention 😉 You must really stand out of a crowd 😉

Why is it NY, E”Y or the Ukraine… what happened to everything in between?

So they referred you to a live Rov- why not try it out? I personally find it much easier to “spill my guts” to an anonymous person than to someone I know well.

Regarding shidduchim, who is forcing you into anything? You need to find the right one, not just anyone.

“If I truly feel happier alone…”- do you believe that? You do not have control over whether you get married or not, but I don’t feel that’s the correct or healthy perspective. It’s a pronounced shrug. And we all know you didn’t really give up yet.

– areivim

PS- if you respond to this now, do not think I am ignoring as I need to step away from the CR, most probably for the night. Hatzlocha!

BS”D

Regarding the store owners in the frum world; I am a man who proudly cooks and a technical guy. A butcher or grocer who deals with women all day, or a hardware store man who deals with vexing questions from balebatim who don’t know which way to turn a screw, obviously wants to speak to me. And when 2 yidden speak, it begins with Jewish geography and then turns to personal questions. Then the butcher turns out to be related to a close friend and quickly becomes a well meaning shadchan(this actually did happen), the grocer asks me when he’s going to sell me candy for my lechaim, etc.

I don’t want to live in the US, and Canada where I actually am entitled to citizenship is even less attractive because while the communities are nice the tax system is choking and the weather is very unpleasant. Any other attractive place except EY is closed to me for citizenship reasons; you cannot just show up in an EU country and open a business the way you can in the developing world. Ditto for Australia which is probably the closest Jewish community to the Far East.

BS”D

Why would I want to live in Muslim infested Englandistan? My experience there has not been a good one in terms of either the communities (too formal) or the surroundings (crime plus Islam).

Anyway I have one grandparent who was born in an EU country which probably is not enough.

Jewess- thank you, that was an inspiration.

BS”D

Salford is Manchester? I would do anything to live in close proximity to Haroun Cohen of Ku Klutz Kartel fame for as long as it took me to make that yitzur feel so unwelcome that he would move to Teheran where he belongs. I could probably do it in 3-4 weeks plus another 60 days as a guest of Her Majesty for cruelty to animals. Probably would be worth it.

Newcastle has a community?

Coming from the US and living in the FSU, I could never get accustomed to the UK.