New Brooklyn Eruv: Time to Accept?

Dear Youdont,

What is the point of responding to every little nuance in the teshuvos, if we can’t agree on what was Rav Moshe’s core opinion on eruvin? Who cares what type of psak he issued? First we learn ghow he understood rsh”r etc. Then we see how he worked with it through the sugyos. After we can discuss how he dealt with the halachic sources. And then finally we can come to how he encated hos shittah l’masah. Otherwise, it’s just you against whoever wants to give you an audience and it has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with Rav Moshe’s opinion.

You have been on this for years and you never once bothered to respond to all the people who know Rav Moshe’s opinion. You only wish to force your thinking onto them by hijacking the Iggros Moshe. Well, I am cut out for that and it seems like I have gotten to you. No hard feelings, but where you the guy who went to a wedding and harassed everybody about the eruv, but then conveniently left when Rav Dovid zt”l unexpectedly showed up?

n0mesorah: “What is the point of being evasive? Whatever your shittah is, you should own it. And say ‘I don’t know’ or ‘I can’t explain that’.

Exactly my sentiments, when will you admit that not only don’t you know Rav Moshe’s shitos, you don’t have an inkling regarding the inyan. I have not shied away from explaining any shita of Rav Moshe, you are reflecting on your attitude.

“1) Rav Moshe wrote something completely new, and we are left wondering if it is a new opinion or an omission from his first letter. Even though he writes that it is all explained at length in his teshuva, we see a new idea in the Flatbush letter of three million.”
Again with the smokescreens. I am not the one who invented the number three million, Rav Moshe did. I do not have to excuse why he declared that the number is three million, even though he did not mention it in his first teshuvah. Go ask it of Rav Moshe, he was the one who wrote three million. This is a lousy argument on your part, and it clearly a smokescreen.

“2) There can not be any teshuva that is about Brooklyn as then Rav Moshe could be accused of issuing a psak din barrur. Rav Moshe in 4:87 writes that he is compelled to respond with his opinion because he writes stuff about his own thinking. These lines are to be ignored.”
Comprehension alert!! Of course Rav Moshe opposed an eruv, but he admits that he is mechudash and the poskim would not agree with him. Hence he cannot issue a psak din barrur. That alone should shut down all the arguments against an eruv. Rav Moshe realized that the poskim did not agree with him, so those who establish an eruv, according to Rav Moshe, have on whom to rely.

“3) The understanding of the topic is not important. It’s all about what could we get away with in spite of Rav Moshe’s well publicized, thoroughly printed, and until recently, testified by many great chachamim. Anybody who points to Rav Moshe’s opinion, and doesn’t admit that it can be manipulated, must be ignorant.”
Comprehension alert!! No. Rav Moshe is mechudash; therefore, if one can find away to allow even according to Rav Moshe there is no reason to object. Moreover, no one has a right to prohibit by adding to Rav Moshe’s chiddushim, since to begin with he is mechudash.

“What is the point of responding to every little nuance in the teshuvos, if we can’t agree on what was Rav Moshe’s core opinion on eruvin? Who cares what type of psak he issued? First we learn ghow he understood rsh”r etc. Then we see how he worked with it through the sugyos. After we can discuss how he dealt with the halachic sources. And then finally we can come to how he encated hos shittah l’masah. Otherwise, it’s just you against whoever wants to give you an audience and it has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with Rav Moshe’s opinion.”
To those who are trying to play catch up, but made up their mind already. it would seem that it has nothing to do with Rav Moshe’s opinion. However, it very much does have to do with his opinion. As I mentioned there are three reasons to allow an eruv according to Rav Moshe. Your argument regarding a few words in 4:87, has absolutely nothing to do with Rav Moshe’s opinion, it is your opinion only.

“You have been on this for years and you never once bothered to respond to all the people who know Rav Moshe’s opinion. You only wish to force your thinking onto them by hijacking the Iggros Moshe. Well, I am cut out for that and it seems like I have gotten to you. No hard feelings, but where you the guy who went to a wedding and harassed everybody about the eruv, but then conveniently left when Rav Dovid zt”l unexpectedly showed up?”
Your the one who takes many days to answer, because you are playing catch up, but I am the one who does not bother to respond? In any case, what is it I, “never once bothered to respond to all the people who know Rav Moshe’s opinion.” Or is it that I, “only wish to force [my] thinking onto them by hijacking the Iggros Moshe? Oh. this story regarding Rav Dovid is probably another one of your bubbe meises. It probably never happened. No one harasses anyone to carry with an eruv. It is those who oppose who harasse those who carry.

“No hard feelings, but where you the guy who went to a wedding and harassed everybody about the eruv, but then conveniently left when Rav Dovid zt”l unexpectedly showed up?”
In any case your probably mixing up the story. Someone I know attended a wedding, which he heard Rav Belsky would be present at, and brought along IM, O.C. 2, because Rav Belsky argued that pirtzos esser is d’Oraysa. This individual proceeded to show Rav Belsky that Rav Moshe maintained that it is only d’rabbanan. To which Rav Belsky argued that a pirtzah of 16 amos would be d’Oraysa. However, this individual rebutted that Rav Moshe did not say that, and no one really maintains as such, as it is a shiur reshus harabbim not a shiur pirtzah. Suffice to say it was not pleasant, even though this individual was really seeking answers, and not to be antagonistic.

Dear Youdont,

“Your the one who takes many days to answer, because you are playing catch up, but I am the one who does not bother to respond?”

Sorry, but I am not always online.

There is nothing for ne to catch here. We got to the end. You aren’t saying anything.

You are the one who has not responded to anyone who really knew their stuff. Throughout this site, on a bunch of different threads, going back years. Now you are stuck with me.

And, the point that Rav Elyashiv et all backed Reb Dovid, and nobody was able to get him to agree with their arguments, is a sore point to any gibberish you dream up. A sore point which you never addressed.

In case anyone is trying to follow, I understand that Rav Moshe was saying that in his opinion they couldn’t build an eruv. And if they do, it should not be used. But if they wanted to build an eruv, based on someone else, he wouldn’t stop them.

It undermines the Brooklyn Eruv that they keep trying to align themselves with Rav Moshe.

“At one point, almost every rav in Brooklyn was asking Rav Moshe if he supported an eruv. Misrepresenting gedolim to the public is not a new problem.”
Simply untrue. They just followed the askanim who talked them into signing.

“Uh, okay. But Rav Moshe did write a very clear teshuva that any competent Ben Torah can decipher.”
Uh, OK. But most did not bother to really learn through them, and many did not fully understand it. Even more so, they definitely do not know the other shitos.

“PS I wonder what ‘the inyan’ means to you.”
What you do not know.

“You have no clue what I am talking about, yet you invoke the mysterious ‘inyan’ again.”
We shall see if I don’t know what you are talking about.

“If anybody cares to know, in between the first teshuva and the Flatbush teshuva, Conservative Judaism started driving on Shabbos and abandoned their ‘eruv until the suburbs’ project. For further information, you can still find all kinds of silliness among Conservative teshuvos written this year about the concept of eruvin.”
Total nonsense. There simply is no analogy there. In fact Rav Moshe’s allowing an eruv in Queens is proof that you are just making up nonsense.

“I am not arguing that people should not use eruvin because of this battle. I’m pointing out that there were brilliant minds pushing for eruvin at this time, that were not long for Orthodoxy.”
Irrelevant, as the argument does not begin.

“Rav Moshe’s shitah is clear and constant: Six hundred thousand people on a street makes that street a reshus harrabim. The same number out and about in a city, makes the public places of the city into a reshus harrabim. Precisely how to count a city is of no consequence, because if it is close than we are unable to guarantee that the eruv will contribute to shemiras Shabbos and are exempt from building one.”
Gibberish. Besides you obviously do not know what a sratya is. No. Rav Moshe shita is not clear, and it changed over the years. You constantly lie about it, because you do not know what to do with the inconsistencies. How to count a city is stated clearly in Igros Moshe, stop lying about it. In fact Rav Dovid agreed that his fathers shita is three million, when he allowed the Chicago eruv. In fact, the absurdity was on full display in Chicago. The anti-eruvniks argued that they disagreed with Rav Dovid regarding his fathers shita. Only those who osser can disagree with him.

“1) So you are left wondering about Rav Moshe’s intentions with his Flatbush teshuva. Because there is no chance that you are wrong here. But you won’t wonder about it either. We should ask Rav Moshe to wonder for you.”
Childish

“2) Rav Moshe writes that he is forced to write about Flatbush, because people think he permitted it. What compelled him? Is it possible that he believed that people are not allowed to carry with an eruv based on a mistaken belief of Rav Moshe’s permission?”
That is exactly it. Nevertheless, he stated clearly that he cannot issue a psak din barrur because he is mechudash and is arguing on the poskim.

You can split hairs now.

“3) Comprehension alert! Without Rav Moshe’s opinion, there is less of a reason to build an eruv in a mega-city. The simple understanding was that a population of 600,000 makes the city into a rsh”r. Rav Moshe is bringing about new ways to be lenient throughout his teshuvos.”
Totally incorrect. Rav Moshe understood that shishim ribo is conditional of the street, but then came up with his chiddush. So in fact you are arguing on Rav Moshe. There is no posek of stature that maintains that shishim ribo is conditional of the city, besides for Rav Moshe. Hence, Rav Moshe is machmir. Even the Mishkenos Yaakov understood that it is conditional of the street.

“So take away his chiddush and try to use the Aruch Hashulchan. (Except that the Aruch Hashulchan is trying to incorporate the Mishkanos Yaakov into the accepted halacha. [Meaning, that the sugyos go according to the Mishkanos Yaakov, but the halachah is different because of his chiddush.] But I doubt that matter is a factor to you.)”
It is not a factor, because it is not the Aruch Hashulchan’s chiddush, but only Rashi himself, and other Rishonim (Eruvin 59b). Furthermore, there are many other reasons to allow, such as mefulash umechavanim, and mechitzos.

“Nobody is adding to Rav Moshe’s opinion to forbid the eruv. And there is no way around it. His shitah is very straightforward, as it appears in chelek aleph.”
You simply do not know what you are talking about. Just one example: Pirtsos esser. According to the anti-eruvniks of course Rav Moshe maintains that it is d”Oraysa, but Rav Moshe maintains that it is me’d’rabbanan.

“4) A thourough review of Rav Moshe’s writings, show that many of his rulings were not given with a horaah lasos. Rav Moshe was very humble about forcing his opinion on others.”
Irrelevant

“You can still build any eruv you want. You can even put up an eruv in a bungalow colony, that nobody will check for years on end. You can build an eruv without knowing the topography. I don’t care.”
Sure and throw out hilchos eruvin. This is what the campaign opposing eruvin achived.

“But don’t go around proclaiming that Rav Moshe’s shittah is not definitive, when Rav Moshe clearly says it is.”
His shita changed, and his psak was based on incorrect information.

“As he told Reb Tuvya, you can disagree with him. But at least make the effort to properly understand the teshuva.”
And Rav Tuvia believed that Rav Moshe would allow the current eruv.

n0mesorah:
“You use Rav Dovid while saying his psak is irrelevant.”
Absolutely incorrect. I am only using Rav Dovid against eino modeh beruvin. I do not need to rely on Rav Dovid, I can b”H read a teshuvah on my own. I never said that his p’sak is irrelevant.

“Rav Elyashiv was personally very close to Rav Dovid, yet you say he had nothing to do with him.”
Irrelevant. In Flatbush Rav Elyashiv did not mention Rav Dovid at all.

“Rav Moshe was very clear about his opinions about Brooklyn Eruv, yet look at everything you post.”
Rav Moshe clearly changed his opinion along the way, so no Rav Moshe’s shitos are not clear at all.

“Rav Moshe wrote that he is forced to respomd, yet you say he agrees.”
The first part of the sentence has nothing to do with the last part. Correct, with the current facts on the ground, and without any additions to his shitos, Rav Moshe would agree.

“I could go on about Odessa, Warsaw, Paris, Chicago, and LA. But I will save it for someone who appreciates honest criticism.”
No you can’t, you do not even know what you are talking about in your own back yard. I would love to hear you am haratzus regarding these cities. Make my day.

“I don’t think I am right about anything. And I only know general ideas.”
Finally you admit that you do not know the inyan.

“But as soon as you entered this thread I saw that you were contradicting yourself.”
How can you judge when you only have general ideas.

“(As you have done in the past. But this thread was never really about halacha. You totally missed that. And it revealed to me, that you probably missed the halacha in all the other eruv threads as well.)”
I reiterate, how can you judge if you only have “general ideas.” There is no doubt in my mind that not only do you not know this inyan you do not know many others. I doubt that you have much shimmush from poskim, and simply do not begin to understand the halachic prosses. It is evident from all your posts.

“So I took you to task. Once I realized that there would be no isolating your opinions from whatever anyone else posts,”
Again, how can you judge if you only have a general idea.

“I started posting Rav Moshe’s opinion to hold you to some standard. I never imagined you would be so innovatively incapable of digesting Rav Moshe’s shitta.”
You psted, but have no idea what he means. It is therefore, irrelevant that you posted the teshuvos.
Finally, there is no doubt that the reason you did not answer most of my arguments is because you simply are in over your head. Hence, you argue that I do not know what I am talking about. Sorry, but anyone who would read our debate would realize your simply arguing because you convinced yourself, but are not capable of convincing others. Stay out of things you know nothing about, not even a “general idea.”

n0mesorah,
“I don’t see the purpose in this. It happens to be fun and more stimulating than most threads here.”
Oh but I thought that I don’t know what I am talking about. Please stop your narishkite, you do not know hwta you are talking about.

“1) You trust Rav Dovid’s statement about the Chicago Eruv (An eruv even more contentious than Brooklyn. I doubt you know or care about that). Yet, you reject Rav Dovid’s statements about the Brooklyn Eruv and his father’s knowledge of the statistics. And conveniently, you never mentioned Rav Dovid’s statement about the Los Angeles eruv.”
As usual a mishmash from a know nothing. As I said, I do not need Rav Dovid to learn a teshuvah, but for you and your ilk, I cite his opinion. No Chicago was not more contentious than Brooklyn (only by some Brisker, who most definitely would have a bigger problem with Brooklyn). I didn’t reject Rav Dovid’s statement regarding the Flatbush Eruv. I stated many times here that Rav Dovid was not referring to the current eruv only to the 1978 eruv. No, it is not my opinion regarding Rav Moshe and the Brooklyn statistics, it is a fact, he wrote incorrect numbers, and was clearly mislead, by an eino modeh beruvin. Oh and Rav Dovid agreed that his father would allow an eruv in LA (see the LA Guide Book). In fact besides for his gezeirah, there would be no reason for Rav Moshe to object to an eruv in LA. Those arguing against an eruv in LA in Rav Moshe’s name are simply ignoramuses, and do not begin to know his teshuvos.

“3) Rav Moshe says it is all in chelek aleph, yet you find a novel idea in that very letter. If you can’t answer this, you are obviously very wrong here. And there really is nothing else to discuss. But for fun, I’ll divert you from what is clearly the strongest proof against you. I am aware that not all of Iggros Moshe is of the same authenticity. The same is true of virtually every sefer. Including, Mishna Berurah, Aruch Hashulchan, Achiezer, and Chazon Ish. This is why we actually learn things well, instead of just rattling of sources. Your theory that Rav Moshe is saying something else in response to putting on a hat protector is laughable. (I actually laughed.)”
The laugh of an am haaratz is irrelevant. I would say that the question about the Igros Moshe as opposed to all the sefarim that you mention is different, but I will not b e party to your game. Keep on laughing it is telling.

“Here is where you have the lesser side in this debate.”
You don’t know your right arm from your left regarding this inyan.

“The question I posed was that Rav Moshe wrote here that “it is all written at length in every single detail in my sefer Iggros Moshe siman 139 (Which you refer to as the Manhattan Teshuva ).” Yet you say that he changed his opinion immediately after writing that he didn’t. So you didn’t solve the actual issue at all. You have a reason for this, that Rav Moshe was formulating his opinion about Brooklyn. [It is funny to think that Rav Moshe had not had an opinion about Brooklyn when he wrote the teshuva in Chelek Aleph. As if someone of Rav Moshe’s stature has to figure out his general ideas about an eiruv when the question arises. It is even funnier when we note that the first pert of the Manhattan teshuva is about Brooklyn. And a clear understanding of the entire letter will reveal (the assumption) that Manhattan had a more solid basis for an Eruv at the time.]”
Huh. A bunch of smoke. First of all I don’t have to answer for every word of Rav Moshe, contrary to you and your ilk, I do not believe that he was a Rishon, and his words cannot be dissected as such. Furthermore, you have not answered my clear proof that he added to his teshuvah, in order to object to a Brooklyn Eruv. Moreover, I never said that he changed his mind. I only stated that the words that you constantly harp on are proven wrong by the fact that he himself added in that same teshuvah to his chiddushim. Additionally I answered that he was referring to the matter of 12 mil by 12 mil, which was his chiddush in 1:139. No Rav Moshe changed his mind regarding the criterion of shishim ribo a few times. In 1:109, it is clear that he maintained that it is conditional of the street. In 1:139:5, he wrote that he has a chiddush that it is dependent on a 12 mil by 12 mil area. Only later in Brooklyn where it was pertinent did he add to his teshuvah, how to reckon the number of people over the 12 mil by 12 mil area. [Manhattan was encompass by mechitzos so only regarding the bridges was the criterion of shishim ribo pertinent. Hence, Rav Moshe did not need to formulate his later chiddush of three million.] Your argument that Rav Moshe did not need to formulate an opinion he knew it all, is contradicted by that fact that he changed his mind numerus times regarding the criterion. Most of all, these types of arguments are made by people who worship Rav Moshe, and don’t know much about the halachic process. Rav Moshe was not infallible, and clearly, and self admittedly was mechudah in this matter. As to the the matter of the Brooklyn teshuvah (1:138) being the beginning of the Manhattan teshuvah, it is apparent you never learnt the teshuvah. The Brooklyn teshuvah is only regarding the Myrtle Ave EL, and not about the efficacy of an eruv in Brooklyn. Stop shooting your mouth off on issues you know nothing about.

“And then you finish off your response by saying that Rav Moshe “only referred to his Manhattan teshuvah in regards to his chiddush that shishim ribo is conditional on 12 mil by 12 mil.” What are you doing here? Even if you are correct about everything else, Rav Moshe is still changing that very Chiddush from being about 600,000 people around town within a specific perimeter to the population of it’s residents. This would require a completely different basis that what brought about his chiddush in chelek aleph. So how could reference a teshuvah that does not back up this new novelty that you claim is his his new formula regarding Brooklyn?”
You really have a comprehension issue. As I explained, Rav Moshe did not need to conclude what was the population required to fulfil the criterion of shishim ribo in Manhattan. Manhattan was encompassed by mechitzos and was a reshus hayachid notwithstanding the population included therein. Brooklyn was a different story was not encompassed by mechitzos [according to the way it was relayed to him (he was misled)]. Hence, the criterion of shishim ribo played the part of classifying the borough as a reshus harabbim or not. So no Rav Moshe was not changing anything in Manhattan only how to apply his chiddush in Brooklyn.

“And even though we can point to eruvin earlier in the century, Rav Moshe would counter that they were either not accepted, not built, or came about in a very unique way. Again, the question is on you as to what could possibly be Rav Moshe’s basis for counting the population of the residents.”
What a bunch of gibberish. First of all, all the large cities that established eruvin, were used by most of the population. Clearly there were cities such as Warsaw, and Lodz which contained populations greeter than 600,000, and most of the population made use of their eruv. There was no unique way, they were built and reestablished even when the population reached 600,000. Rav Moshe, unlike you clowns realized that you can’t go against the minhag, and therefore, he formulated his chiddush of three million.

Dear Youdont,

It isn’t so complicated. I can’t tell what you mean when you don’t address contradictions. Not being contradictory is the first step in any intelligent thinking pattern. It could be you know Eruvin backward and forwards by heart. But since you don’t see the need to make your opinions fit with what you are stating, you come across as saying whatever fits the most recent post.

I am not claiming that I know more than you.

Nor am I saying that there are things you are ignorant of.

You are just not making any clear case. You have your own story of what anybody said and everybody may say about the eruv, and you give no regard for actual statements. I have a hard time accepting that you are any different when it comes to the Gemara or Shulchan Aruch. Blatant statements are never blatant to you. Either they are true by virtue of agreeing with you, or they are demonstrably false without any demonstrations.

It was hard for me to respond in the beginning. But now that I know the score, it is a lot of fun. I know that I can never be proven wrong, because you don’t have a clear concept of evidence being proven. You can claim that you know which two blatt long sugya I just referenced between the lines here, but you can never say which one because that would run counter to your thinking pattern.

Now let’s make some mudballs.

1) You continue to not address where you stand with Rav Dovid. It’s because Rav Dovid is not entitled to saying what he said if you are going to disagree. It’s the same thing you are trying to pull off with the Flatbush Teshuva. It is an improper way to learn. But you already through your hat/yarmulke/streimel on the side of someone who was on his way out of Orthodoxy, so it isn’t something that I should complain about.

2) Some of your attitude towards talmedei chachamim is more apikorsus than rejecting all eruvin that were ever made. I don’t know why you throw at me every anti eruv personality in North America. I don’t care for them and was never taking their side.

3) I don’t know who required you to answer to every word in every Rishon. But if you don’t want to accept Rav Moshe’s chiddush of rsh”r of a city you have a whole lot of words to explain. But there is a big difference between answering every word and holding the writer’s intentions accountable to the reader’s errors. If we give the writer the right to hold us to his intentions, than many things become very differnt. For example, we have no reason to assume the Magen Avram’s chiddush of mefulash was ever widely accepted. Besides for the problem of it not being sourced. [Sour ced? What’s that?]

4) And now for the real one. why did you make up that 12 x 12 is the chiddush of Rav Moshe? The novel interpretation of the S”A is applicable even if a city has an undefined size as it did before Rav Moshe. The Aruch Hashulchan and every other chiddush here never bothered with an exact size. Rav Moshe wasn’t coming to say 12 x 12. That is a side part.

Now you can go bananas at me. But this last paragraph tells the bystander that I knew the topic from the beginning and you have no chance until you allow Rav Moshe to talk for himself.

“1) You continue to not address where you stand with Rav Dovid. It’s because Rav Dovid is not entitled to saying what he said if you are going to disagree. It’s the same thing you are trying to pull off with the Flatbush Teshuva. It is an improper way to learn. But you already through your hat/yarmulke/streimel on the side of someone who was on his way out of Orthodoxy, so it isn’t something that I should complain about.”
No I consider Rav Dovid a gadol baTorah, but that does not preclude that he was not privy to anything more about this issue, as can be discerned by the fact he never said otherwise. Rav Dovid is entitled to say what he wants, but I am entitled to learn his fathers teshuvah otherwise. In fact he happens to learn his fathers teshuvah as I do and many others do. You are the one who can’t come to terms that Rav Dovid disagrees with you and your ilk. No you never learnt the Flatbush teshuvah until lately and you still don’t know what Rav Moshe says. Your absolute childish next statement does not warrant a response.

“2) Some of your attitude towards talmedei chachamim is more apikorsus than rejecting all eruvin that were ever made. I don’t know why you throw at me every anti eruv personality in North America. I don’t care for them and was never taking their side.”
This is yet again kindresh. You are into worshiping, but if I don’t subscribe to your belief’s I am an apikores. So lets understand this, Rav Moshe admits that he is going against the poskim, and I want to follow those poskim, I am the apikores. These silly arguments save for kindergarten. Never mind, that Rav Moshe did not issue a psak din barrur. Your next statement is proabaly as childish as the rest

“4) And now for the real one. why did you make up that 12 x 12 is the chiddush of Rav Moshe? The novel interpretation of the S”A is applicable even if a city has an undefined size as it did before Rav Moshe. The Aruch Hashulchan and every other chiddush here never bothered with an exact size. Rav Moshe wasn’t coming to say 12 x 12. That is a side part.”
Unbelievable narshkeit. First of all, the SA does not say the word city at all. Rav Moshe actually struggles with this issue and claims, kneged the Ramban’s shita, that the SA is referring to a sratya. This is yet again a huge chiddush. Those few poskim who claim that the criterion is conditional of the city, would maintain that Rav Moshe is a mekil. So no there is no doubt that Rav Moshe’s chiddush that a 12 mil by 12 mil area is what is referred to a city is a huge chiddush. Those who uphold this novel shita that it applies to a city need to answer for this, but they would never have come up with this chiddush of 12 mil by 12 mil. The Ramban asks on Rashi where does he know the chiddush of shishim ribo from, and so we no doubt can ask on Rav Moshe where did he get this chiddush from (which source used this measurement). Oh, and no, Rav Moshe clearly maintains that the Aurach Hashulchan upholds that the criterion of shishim ribo is conditional of the street. Oh, and now whatever Rav Moshe says in 1:139, is also a side part. Rav Moshe says his chiddush regarding 12 mil by 12 mil in all his teshuvos regarding eruvin in large cities, but you deem it a side part. Oh, Rav Dovid also says his fathers shita was shishim ribo over 12 mil by 12 mil. You are a jokester.

so for anyone interested in my 2 cents: (im not taking sides)
1) from what i remember reb moshe’s psak about manhatten in igros moshe vol 1is based on an opinion not quoted on shulchan aruch, so many rabbonim only go with the opinions brought in sh”u, (just like the michaber, rama, and nosai kelim disregarded those opinions)
2) do you use timers on shabbos? reb moshe held its asur.
there is a sefer printed on the eruv in flatbush with haskomes from leading rabonim
there are dif. between flatbush and manhatten
according to r”t, rashi tefillin are not kosher (in fact according to rashi, rashi tefilling are not kosher do to his difrent spelling of words, we follow the rambam (and others)
k much more, got to go