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Hi guys, I have a predicament I needed to ask for some advice about. This past year I was engaged to someone, and for one reason or another it did not work. We broke it off about four months ago, and now I have really started to move on and date again. At the time of the breakup, which happened due to do her mental instability issues, many in her circles including some of her best friends reached out to me and wished me the best, knowing that I was a good guy throughout and treated her well.
One of her (my ex fiancee) closest friends was really always very nice to both of us, and while i was engaged, we tried to set her up with a few of my friends, but it never worked out. Recently, a friend of mine had suggested that perhaps I should ask her out, and truthfully as I have thought about it more and more, she really has a wonderful heart and many of the qualities I have looked for. When I was engaged , I used to always tell myself how this friend really deserves the best.
Now, how would I go about asking her out? She knows that I am a good guy, and she saw how well I treated her friend. Not to mention, her friend use to say amazing things about me to everyone. I had met her parents on a few occasions and they were also very wonderful people; however, I dont want to just call her, and give her the oppurtunity to say no without thinking it through. If she does think it through, I truly believe she will be open to giving it a try, and truthfully thats all im looking for. In some ways, her and I have more in common than me and my ex. Our families are both sephardic, we speak the same languages at home, and on the one occasion (ironically my enagagement party) that my parents and her parents met, they got along very well.
I feel that the fact that we have this history together could come to hurt or help me. On the one hand, she knows me well, knows im a good guy, and knows my background. On the other hand, it wouldnt be most ideal for her to date me considering i was engaged to one of her best friends. My friend who suggested it seems to think that a simple phone call to her would be enough, and that she would be more than willing. I am not so sure though.
How should I go about this? I think it would be a shame for both of us not give it a try.
Thanks.
Definitely, do not call yourself. Have someone else suggest it for you this way no one will get directly hurt, if the answer is not to your liking. Hatzlocha!
You have to understand that asking her to consider dating you would be a major complication (to say the least) to her friendship with your ex.
I think you should ask a warm, sensitive, posek, someone who deeply understands peoples feelings to guide you on the proper steps to take so as not to mess it up, and ease the burden of hurt all around.
In my limited knowledge, i’d have someone “let it slip” to this girl that she was mentioned as a shidduch to you a few times and you were very open to it, but didn’t want to put her in a tough place by making her decide.
However, is she was open to it, then you’d be very happy to give it a go.
Don’t let her know you sent someone, it should just be a scoop that someone close to you let slip.
WOW!!! That’s a tricky one!! i agree with a mamin, it should definitely be someone else suggesting the shidduch!! Is your ex-wife still close friends with this girl??? if yes, i don’t think she will want to jump into the shidduch right away! Girls are sensitive when it comes to hurting their best friends!! i wish you lots of hatzlacha!!
Have someone else call.
Do you think that your parents could call hers?
Please keep in mind your ex-fiance. If you are dating her friend, it may get awkward.
Please use a shadchan and preferably your Rav. Hatzlacha Rabba!
You should not call directly. If the relationship was broken off by mutual consent than you have a better chance with her. If you broke her friends heart, unless your “ex’s” mental health issues are blatant and obvious to everyone, her friend may regard you as the bad guy (prior contact not withstanding).
She may or may not feel comfortable dating you, but it’s certainly worth asking (have someone she respects do it for you).
Years ago, someone sought me for a shidduch, who was previously married to a roommate from seminary. He was religiously what I was looking for, but it so creeped me out and I felt so much like I was betraying her that I declined the shidduch. Go in with an open mind, hopeful, and know that any possible snags may or may not be about you.
Hatzlacha!
i have to agree with bein_hasdorim on this one. he had a really good point!
happy face also had a good point. girls tend to be very loyal to their friends. most girls would think at least ten thousand times before considering to date her best friend’s ex. i know that i probably wouldn’t – though your situation sounds a little different – so tred carefully.
good luck!
The first thing that comes to mind is this. At any point during the dating process did anyone, meaning your Kallah or her family, make you aware of her emotional (mental) issues? In other words, were things kept from you that should have been revealed to you?
That is an important question. If the kallah had these issues before she was presented to you, and you were NOT told about it, there is no reason what-so-ever that you should have any guilt pursuing any of her friends if one of them is more suited to you. And I don’t think that her friend would have a problem responding in the affirmative either in such a situation.
On the other hand, if the Kallah developed issues during the engagement that she did not display earlier, or you knew about he issues but thought that you could deal with them, then you should be more careful how you go about it. Maybe you should go back to the original shadchan and have her make the call. Or go to your Rosh Yeshiva and have him call the girl’s parents. He can explain the situation better and he can explain that there is nothing wrong with the two of you dating.
As many here have said, girls are extremely caring and sensitive to their friends and their feelings. It would be imperative to first see if both this girl and your ex-fiance are not too weary about such a suggestion (through someone else), and only then to bring yourself into the picture and talk directly. It is so important to take into consideration any feelings that may be hurt along the way, so move forward with extreme care. I hope it works out!
Mustangrider. you know you probably wouldn’t do what? go for the shidduch??
Ir Flabush,i remember a situation where my friend went into a shidduch where the boy didn’t want her, then a few months later a shadchan called with the same boy she went out with. i know it was a great boy, i heard so many amazing things, but the thought of knowing that i would hurt or even lose a friendship so dear, didn’t allow me to go on with the shidduch! i know it’s an entirely different scenario and your even good with this girl, but you have to understand that a friend means alot!!
I agree with bein Hasdorim
Ask a posek and if you’re given the go ahead, than have someone let it slip, as was mentioned.
Ir i think before you go on anymore dates with any girls you need to work on your middos, specifically gaavah you refer to yourself many times as a good guy and say that she lost out on something pretty good, you also made a comment how when u were engaged you thought this girl deserved the best are you the best? just something to think about
Happy face – correct!
i meant a true situation where a friend of mine broke up and she still likes him. so in that situation i said no (yes i was redt to my friend’s ex). though i should add that there were other reasons that made me say no.
however, i believe that IrFlatbush’s situation sounds a little differen’t. from what he said i think the girl would probably consider it. but he should take it slow – like i said before – follow bein_hasdorim’s advice.
Come on Goq!! A person is allowed to have some self respect!!
Happy face if I’m the only one who got this vibe from his original post then i will gladly retract my statement, there is self respect and then there is excessive pride.
Goq, the only thing he says about himself is that he is “a good guy” he doesn’t say he is the “perfect guy”!
ASK A RAV….?
he said hes a good guy several times it was a bit excessive
I don’t see anything wrong with someone thinking that they are a good guy and yes if a girl breaks off a shidduch because of mental stability issues she is missing out on something good (not sure it would be such a good marriage though if she had these issues). I don’t see anything wrong with what the OP said, why does everyone have to think of themselves as lowly good for nothings?
I agree with Bein Hasedorim. I also believe you should tread carefully,but try to get a feel for whether or not this girl would be interested (she might not be, even without the issue of her girlfriend, as a factor). If she IS interested, she might want to talk to her friend about it. I hope this works out they way that will bring you simcha and not cause pain to anyone else.
Who knows if your former engagement was specifically designed to ensure that you meet the other girl?
Ir, in response to your post which responded to my post (I hope that isn’t too confusing), I think you are right. There is no reason for you to consider your ex-fiance’s feelings about this. I only said what I said because that’s what I would have done. If I were in a such a situation, I think I would be concerned about my ex-fiance’s feelings. But that would be wrong. I would have no reason to. This is somewhat related to the thread I started a little while ago. It’s something I have to work on. Good for you!
Wishing you much Hatzlacha in all that you do I’YH. Speak to your Rov, and have him call the call the girl’s parents, to explain that you would like to go out with the girl.
My son was offered a shidduch with a wonderful girl, from a great, heimishe family. The girl had been engaged previously to a lovely boy, a few years before, for about 2 months. My son has kevius of learning very early in the am as well as every night. One of the boys in his morning seder is the guy who was engaged to this girl. My son went out with this lovely girl, got engaged and B’H are married now. My daughter in law’s very good friend, whom she went to High School with and Sem got engaged to her ex fiance, and is now married B’H. They both live in the same neighborhood, and are cordial one to the other. What was not right for my daughter in law, was great for her friend. H’KBH has His plans and we have to do our hishtadlus in life to find our true beshert. Everything is Hasgacha Pratis. We have to have complete emunah and bitachon. Some things have to take its course.
May H’KBH grant you much siyata dishmaya to find your true beshert in the right place, in the right time soon and to build a bayit neeman b’yisrael be karov. Amen!
haha i also saw that Goq! With boys having pple dying to set them up 24/7 and being told how amazing they are, it affects them eventually. be very humble!! but also value urself
ty for the conformation lbj it seemed obvious to me glad im not the only one
IR, only you know what the emotional issues are that effected your ex Kallah. You didn’t answer my inquiry if the Kallah had these issues before the engagement or if it is something that developed during the engagement. If these two girls are very close and the girl in question still supports the ex-kallah she will not do anything in the world to hurt her. In addition, there is a huge inyan of not hurting anyone when it comes to fertility and having children. Depending on how you broke it off with your ex-kallah and her family, would it be possible to approach them and say that obviously it was not meant to be, but Hashem does have a plan for all of us, and maybe his plan was not for the two of you, but for you to meet the friend and see her qualities. Let them know that you are not looking to hurt your former Kallah, but you would like her permission to date her friend because you do not want friction between the friends and do not want to break up a friendship. If it would cause her pain, then you should forget about it and move on.
Just her knowing that it might work out for her friend and you, she might love her friend enough to allow the two of you to try. She might not say yes right away, but giving her the opportunity to think about it, she might come around within weeks or a couple of months.
I am saying this because if you cause her additional pain knowing her emotional situation it can effect you and your future wife later on when you are trying to have children. That is a huge inyan. So maybe this is something you really should discuss with your Rav and review your whole situation in regards to the break up, how you handled it. How your ex feels about you right now. How she would feel if you dated her friend, etc. If she has no hard feelings towards you, maybe it is she that you should approach first.
ManofReason I’m not seeing so much reason here. It seems he said he’s first STARTING to date after 4 months. And he may think he’s a prince, but he doesn’t imply at all that he stil wants to be with his ex bec she sounds crazy. Having a broken engagenment, thinking you’re a prince, and wanting to date her best friend doesn’t constitue mental instability.
He definitely does not need permission from his ex-kallah.
I think the answer is simple, like many posters have already said. Ask a shadchan or someone uninvolved to “redd” it to her!
Now, I’d like to post my own dilemma: I was about to get engaged to a boy with mild mental issues, but then he told us about his problem, and we were told by our Rav to stay away. Since you, IrFlatbush, have gone through a similar situation, can you give me some chizuk that we made the right decision? What is it like to be in a relationship with one who has mental issues?
IrFlatbush; Thanks, It’s a sensitive situation and has to be entered w/ sensitivity. I suggest you Daven to HB”H it should go smoothly.
I wish you much Hatzlacha!
That must be really hard for you. I truly sympathize with you on this. Although you’ve mentioned alot of detail I don’t know the full story well enough to advise but I really wish you pure hatzlocha and Brocha in finding your true zivug in life. May you merit to build a bayis Ne’eman beyisroel very soon. I feel your pain it’s definitely not easy. May we only hear of simcha bekorov. Daven hard!!! Break through those gates and you’ll find her. TRUST in the one above!!! He has got his Devine plans for each and every one of his creations. Hope all goes well.
Flatbush, I was reading what you said carefully , and there is almost a reccuring theme ” you need to look out for yourself, it was her fault, she ruined the engagement” It sounds like she called it off, and thats extremely upsetting. Having been in the same situation years ago,There are a few points I need to make. You were supposed to meet her, but HKBH did not want you to marry her. Think of the good things that came out of the relationship and be happy that it happened.Even if it was her fault, Forgive her. If you really want to go out with her friend for the right reasons then you will. Do not do anything out of spite, becuase then you are still hurting yourself. Be happy you met her, forgive her, and move on, and you will meet your bashert very soon.
I dont think you should approach her friend on your own and I think davening is the main thing here- along with a really really good rav!
Dear Ir i didn’t say you had to feel worthless but the excess of self praise in your posts was to me obvious, i don’t feel worthless and neither should you but i do think you need to keep your ego in check. I apologize for calling you out in public, wishing you well in all your endeavors.
IR- what happened with you?
Thank you, this was a great dose of chizuk. I appreciate it! Wishing you much hatzlacha…
is this the girl that you are dating? so happy to hear that things are working out for you. there are still a couple of people here that wish they would have it as easy as you are now. may we hear besuros tovos soon.
I am just curious, what ended up happening with you and the girl? Did it end up working out?
Oyoyoyoy here we have a problem.
The problem of curiosity.
What are you first- a yid or a scientist?
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