NASI – The Inside Scoop

Once boys know what is expected of them, they will look for ways to achieve it. If the “admission ticket” to the dating arena means you need to be employable, you can be sure the boys will figure out a way to get in the game.

Yeah um. I know lots of guys who have to say they want to learn, because otherwise the girls won’t date them. The ticket to having the girls line up is to say you are learning. It’s the girls who are driving this thing.

in high school was not really thinking too much yet about shidduchim and now in seminary yes i have and my parents do know about this so yay im part of the solution!!! ooo this feels good lol

“The ticket to having the girls line up is to say you are learning”

Now, I’m confused. Are you telling me that, there is a shortage of girls who would be willing to consider a working boy? And that only boys that tout the party line will get calls?

OK, lets look at it another way. The “lakewood freezer” is about to crack open (some time next week, I think). Do you honestly believe that EVERY boy from last year’s crop is married or engaged? And that its only the girls who are left out in the cold? (freezer pun intended). And that a girl, 21-22 is ONLY looking at the new harvest, and not interested in someone who is truly her peer? I don’t.

I think there are plenty of boys, ages 24-26 who would work, if they believed we as parents (of both boy and girl) would endorse the idea. And plenty of girls who feel this way too.

Actually popa_bar_abba, what you say is partially incorrect. Many girls are not as fickle as you think; it sounds to me like you’re a bit bitter about something in this topic. Many very frum girls do not want to marry a learning boy. They appreciate what dedicating one’s life to torah means, however they know that practically that doesn’t always work. Personally, I would not want to marry a learning boy. Not just from the practical side, but also for other reasons. I grew up with a doctor father, two brothers are currently in medical school, and two brothers-in law in other health care professions. Although my siblings and I did grow up in a “working” home, we learnt to appreciate what torah is (my father takes EVERY single opportunity to learn.)Interestingly, one of my brothers in now in kollel. But this mentality didn’t just come from home. In fact, contrary to your beliefs, you’ll find that many girls’ (as well as boys’) schools educate their students as to the aspects of both lifestyles. They don’t put down working (it says in the kesuba that it is a man’s responsibility to support his wife, and if it’s not possible for a man to learn full time due to financial or shalom bayis reasons, it is even recommended that he go out to work-I have this on word of a very well-known Rebbitzen) however they do teach that torah is our blueprint for life, and if one sacrifices one’s life for torah, their merit is great. I know I went off on a little tangent here, but I’m just trying to tell you that there are many very good, frum girls who want to marry a working boy (of course they don’t want someone who’s working just because he hates to learn torah). I think that people who say that the “frummer” girls all want learning boys are just deluding themselves. It happens to be that I know many girls who are Rabbi’s daughters who want to marry working boys, and many not so frum girls who want to marry a learning boy just for the sake of doing what’s “normal” (and of course, as I always say, “normal is just a setting on the washing machin-it’s all relative.”

” In fact, contrary to your beliefs, you’ll find that many girls’ (as well as boys’) schools educate their students as to the aspects of both lifestyles. They don’t put down working (it says in the kesuba that it is a man’s responsibility to support his wife, and if it’s not possible for a man to learn full time due to financial or shalom bayis reasons, it is even recommended that he go out to work-I have this on word of a very well-known Rebbitzen)”

chelsealew,i know i’m butting in a little bit but your post brought back some memories. in 12 grade about 6 weeks before graduation, my principal came into the classroom and gave us a nice shmooze on the beauty of living a kollel life, what i “really means” (qoutes on purpose) to live a life for torah. oh and that was the first time we ever had such a shmooze. very sad the way they did that.

in seminary, 1 teacher used to start many topics “IY”H when you are living in Lakewood and your husband is sitting in learning and you don’t have a lot of extra money lying around…” and when i heard those words, i zoned out. i don’t think once the entire year this teacher, a choshuv Rebbetzin, say the words working and husband next to each other. what? you mean girls DON’T want to marry a working boy and they ONLY want learning boys?(SARCASM!!!!!!!) guess what rebbetzin’s, all your preaching didn’t work. i’m looking for a working MAN. not a boy. not a boy who wants to sit in kollel than figure out what to do when he realizes more than 1 salary is needed. in HS and sem there was no mention of both life styles. if you asked me, i might of said your kidding right. maybe where you come from yes they discuss both, but not where i am. i’m am very proud to say i am looking for a working man, who will support his wife. i am a traditionalist. the kasubah says the husband supports his wife.

Maybe if the kesubah was followed exactly, there wouldn’t be a crisis, and hence that might be the problem nowadays.

And yenting, I completely agree with you. For the reasons that you state, I fully appreciate my high school. But it seems like that’s how it is with most out of time schools (which is what my high school is considered although it is a very large bias yaakov…) they tend to be more open-minded. But yes, my school is smart enough to realize that brainwashing it’s girls to believe an opinion is usually counterproductive.

Actualy, it is not generalizing since I am referring to the girls that I know that do not want to marry a learning boy, while you’re talking about a general population of girls. But that’s besides the point. If one really believed that the right thing for him was to work, then he would only want to marry a girl who wants to marry someone who works. Therefore he should not be worrying about those certain fickle girls who don’t know their own minds. And I can assure you that there are plenty of very good, frum, and mature woman out there who do not want to marry a learning boy. PLENTY.

Popa bar abba: Your statement is rediculous. Girls want to be part of the learning which their husbands do. This is only possible when the husband learns after their marriage, since the learning which the husband accomplished before their marriage cannot possibly be considered ‘her’ learning.

” …don’t believe that such girls exist.”

Of course they do. And so do the girls / boys that I’m advocating for.

A frum girl who is older (meaning close to or age thirty) is probably not looking for a learning boy, because ANY guy who is age appropriate to such a young woman and does not yet have a means of parnassah or plan for one because he is still in yeshivah f/t, will probably be perceived as not responsible marriage material. His f/t learning plan should already be far behind him (based on the boys who get married at 22 and learn for 3-5 years, which IMO is too long for f/t ANYTHING that does not result in earning a living, especially when one is married with children). At thirty or more a guy should be firmly establishing how he will support his family and even maybe have money put away at that point. THIS DOES NOT PRECLUDE HIS LEARNING EVERY DAY.

My son learns every night b’chavrusah and also on his own. He also went to school full time for his LMSW and is going back for his second Masters in Public Health, while holding down a 20-25 hour a week job. I am not saying this to boast about my son, so if I come off that way, it is unintentional. Lots of people have wonderful sons and daughters who are ambitious while at the same time deeply-committed to their Yiddishkeit and learning. I say it only to prove it can and should be done.

Thank you, BPT. He really is. But not just because I think so. My husband and I are really proud of his accomplishments and especially of his middos.