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Pay thousands up front for Shadchanim to look for a Shidduch for your 20+ daughter, the older she is, the more you have to pay.
True or false?
False
Where did you hear this, OfCourse?
The part about paying more the older she is doesn’t sound likely to be the case, since NASI specifically wants to help the older girls.
Its true! There is a full page advertisement in this week’s Hamodia explaining the program. Personally, while I am sure they had good intentions, this program makes me nauseous. It’s like shadchanim will only look at you if you wave dollar bills in front of their face. Oh, you are over 22, gotta hand over more dough.
True. I saw an ad for it in the 5 towns Jewish times.
I feel like people are turning marraige into a business venture these days rather than trying to make shidduchim just for the sake of shidduchim. It’s disturbing.
I saw the full page add in the hamodia. I think it’s pragmatic. People work harder when there is money to be made.
So if a girl is 22 and her parents shell out $5000 + $500 and she doesn’t get engaged that year, they have to add $1000.00 on her birthday, or once you’re in, you’re in?
In shidduchim folks often lie about their age. Will they have to pay based on their real age or fake age?
Does a 22 year old get dropped from the list if she doesn’t plunk down another grand when she turns 23?
Doesn’t anyone in the cr read the yated? They also had a full page ad.
PBA — This is not a Ponzi scheme at all — did you read the ad clearly? The point is that these families are committing to pay very high shadchanus if someone makes a shidduch for their child, and the money is “held in escrow” so to speak by Nasi. Nasi is not paying “rewards” to anyone. They are simply compiling a list of families willing to pay these super high rates, and guaranteeing that the money will be payed by holding it in advance. Each person is paying the exact amount for themselves — not for the people before them, and if you chose to drop out (for example you get engaged via a different method!), they simply give you back your own money that they were holding (not clear if you also get back your $500 processing fee or not!).
I’m not saying I like the sound of this — I actually don’t — but your analysis makes no sense.
Yatzmich:
the ad says clearly, for the first 12 months once your in your in. if a girl chooses to stay in after 12 months (presumably because she appreciaites the extra attention she is recieving and thinks it gives her a better shot to get married, then she brings herself current).
m in Israel:
the $500 is just as guranteed as the shadchanus money. if a girls wants out (or gets engaged via a shadchan who didn’t get her name from the list) she gets the money back. in addition the first 50 girls that sign up are not being asked to put the $500 in.
I don’t like this at all.
1: The money is in whose bank account? Ribbis and or controls are a definite issue here.
2: They are perpetuating the crisis instead of solving it. Throwing money at a problem never solves it (see: inner city schools, specificly the Kansas city project).
3: Poor girls don’t have a problem? It proves their interest is in Gelt, not helping those who need it the most.
Now to their defense, they probably feel that they have tried everything else, and this is the last thing they can try.
However, any real solution will not occur until there are major structural changes in the system, which is imbedded and there are too many players who would lose out if there was a change.
i Used to like the whole idea of the nasi project..now i’m not so sure. Wasnt the Nasi project out to help ALL TYPES of singles? if so, why the huge price to add a name on? a boy/girl from a poor family cant afford that, a girl/boy from the middle class income family cant afford that either! when there are multiple single siblings in a family, that price is very hard to cough up!
cinderella- Why is this disturbing? Professional shadchanim work all day and night, not 9-5. Is it disturbing that your son’s Rebbe gets paid for teaching your kid Torah? Why should they not get paid for their hard work?
Here’s my issue with this new idea.
(I can’t stress enough that I represent no one besides myself and my opinions are strictly my own.)
As I have mentioned in the past- NASI is an organization that hides behind a cloak of anonymity- did anyone notice a single name mentioned in the add or just a place where to send a couple thousand dollars? They have made claims of outstanding success but one reading their flyers has no way of verifying the results.
Even if this idea does have a minimal amount of success, which I highly doubt it will, it still does not get to the root of the problem.
They mean well, but are missing the boat.
Unfortunatly, the problem is not that nobody wants to marry older girls. The problem is the age gap, which creates a shortage of boys. Any 4o year old man would gladly marry a 30 year old girl. Why in the world would the shadchan need $13000 to make such a shidduch.
And what should poor girls do? This project will of course discourage shadchanim from helping them. Why should the redd a 30 year old average girl to a boy, when they could redd one that will earn them $13000?
I’m pretty sure that when people get the hang of this idea, there willl be strong oposition and it will be rescinded.
cinderella- Why is this disturbing? Professional shadchanim work all day and night, not 9-5. Is it disturbing that your son’s Rebbe gets paid for teaching your kid Torah? Why should they not get paid for their hard work?
Most people can’t pay the rebbe either, but he still teaches. Most Rabbaim also doesn’t get paid on time, but they still teach.
Professional shadchanim are businessmen/women, just like Doctors & Accountants (who also provide a needed service, which may even be a mitzva). Don’t begin to compare them to our Rabbaim, who swaet with little monatary reward Leshaim Shomayim.
Wait, 22-year-old girls qualify as “older”?
rikki: The reward money is paid by the parents as well?
Why do some people think this is a scam? Everyone knows going in what the terms are, if you dont like it, dont send them money. Utilize other shadchanim or groups that “specialize” in older singles.
“Is it disturbing that your son’s Rebbe gets paid for teaching your kid Torah?”
I might (didnt really think it through) agree with the sentiment, but, this is a poor analogy (and not just this specific example). The Rebbe gets a salary from the yeshiva regardless of if, or how much tuition a parent pays the yeshiva or how much classroom time or out of classroom time he puts into an individual student or how successful a student is. Is the shadchan getting paid for all efforts expended, successful or not?
PBA. I didnt see the ad, but apparantly its not just $500 paid in by the parents, it is $500 PLUS the specified amount based on age. The bigger concern is, who is safeguarding this money? Who will make sure nobody plays the market with it, or worse? I have no idea what the $500 goes to cover (I guess NASI overhead such as costs of full page ads in jewish media across the country?), but I am not the IRS and not doing an audit on them, so I dont really care.
Ok. You are all correct. I was misreading it. The money comes from the parents.
Mods: Please remove my accusations.
As much as this Nasi “game changing plan” will turn people off – the reality is that it is needed and correct. (a) When people pay for a service, they will listen more attentively when they are red a shidduch, rather than the typical stupid “brush-off” for ridiculous reasons. (b) Shadchanim are offering their time, emotions, and prayers and deserve to be both recognized with a hearty “yaasher koach” (whether it worked or not), and MUST be rewarded financially for the few of many times that they succeed. They do it l’shem shomayim, but their time and nerves have to be paid for. Thats reality and menshlichkeit.
So if this Nasi approach causes you resentment – it’s probably because you are one of the people that feel that you have everything coming to you for free, the world owes you a free ride, and you do not know or understand the concept of “hakoras hatoiv”.
Kol Hakovod to Nasi for “saying it the way it is”, even if “it’s in your face”.
And I am not a shadchan.
I guess the question is: Is NASI now setting the benchmark for working with older girls?
Will this mean that no shadchan is willing to make a shidduch for a 24 year old without being guaranteed a $7000 commission?
Nat. I have no problem with shadchanim getting more money. But in many cases (like a 30 year old marrying someone much older than her) there is no reason why a shadchan would need a major incentive. Your point about the girls ignoring shadcanim’s suggestions may be true in some cases, but most of the time these older girls don’t hear from shadchanim.
apushatayid: This is not just an initiative, it is (as they themselves call it,) a game changer. It puts girls who can’t afford the money at a disadvantage. (Or worse it puts huge pressure on them to pay it to keep the playing field even ith those who can afford it)). Even for those who can afford it, it adds insult to injury that they are paying just to be looked at.
Perhaps asking for volunteers to become shadchanim for those girls who put their names on a list makes more sense.(these people would get paid only if they make a shiduch)
We can create new shadchanim if the current shadchanim find the older shidduch girls too challenging.
(Of course this will inly solve this part of the problem. The shortage of boys needs to be addressed bu bridging the age gap between boys and girls.)
Firstly, people have been doing this privately for years – promising shadchanim a lot of money to find their daugter a shidduch. I am not sure why we need Nasi’s help here. I am annoyed that they still owe a lot of people money (including me) before the cancelled their previous program and they claim they can’t pay it. They are breaking a promise and I certainly wouldn’t trust them to hold my money in escrow.
Secondly, in my experience shaddchanim push younger girls because they are more likely to get married to the first or second candidate. I know this since I specifically state that I don’t want a “fresh off the boat” girl and I keep getting send those resumes. Older girls need their friends, relatives and neighbors to work on their behalf
Nat-
I’m going to respectfully disagree with your opinion.
Offering an enormous reward for something that has in the past only commanded a modest compensation will lead to professional shadchanim getting nastier in the techniques that they have become famous for.
I shudder at the thought of all the lying, tricking, hand twisting and you name it that a shdachan will go through while drooling over a potential $13,000.
When I was dating I would have sooner brushed off a professional shdachan (while I was still taking names from them) if I knew they were in it solely for the money.
As I’ve mentioned in older threads, I think the first thing any organization that seriously wants to end the crisis should do is to crack down on the shadchanim. Have a committee of Rabonnim that creates a list of rules that all shadchanim who want to be certified by them must follow. If a shadchan suggests a shidduch, either side can verify that the shadchan is in compliance with the accepted rules. When a shadchan goes against the rules it should immediately be reported to the committee and investigated. Punishments should range from (but not limited to) warnings, financial disciplines, suspension of certification and permanent revocation.
Giving these large payouts is rewarding terrorism.
What about those that can’t afford it?
Is NASI abandoning the aniyam of Klal Yisroel?
sounds nuts to me. do they have a rav or someone guiding them to do this? I never went for their program but now they make me think they are a cult or something that just wants money!
What about those that can’t afford it?
Is NASI abandoning the aniyam of Klal Yisroel?
One good thing has come out of this….Shein and I have found some common ground 🙂
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Dr Pepper – I hear you. But the reality, whether we like it or not, is that shadchanim will try harder if they have a chance of being compensated. They are volunteers, not licensed professionals. And they do with their time whatever they want. they can even decide not to red shidduchim at all, and there is nothing you can do about that. You will just have one less shadchan. Give them the hakoras hatov they so deserve (instead of the abuse they ususaly get instead).
That the Rabbonim should create a shidduchim organization is an entirely different story, not being discussed now.
And I will reiterate my other point that I made. I will add a story so that ypou understand. The mashgiach in Mir, Rav Yeruchem ZT”L, charged a penny to enter to hear his shmuessen. A student that did not have, got the penny from him to use. He said, if you pay for something it has more “chashivus – you pay attention”. Same here – the singles and their parents will pay more attention to these shadchanim.
I don’t like the idea either, but it IS reality, and the way to go.
As for poor girls, life is unfair. Sorry but that too is reality. They will get theirs thru prayer and the RBS”O.
“apushatayid: This is not just an initiative, it is (as they themselves call it,) a game changer. It puts girls who can’t afford the money at a disadvantage. (Or worse it puts huge pressure on them to pay it to keep the playing field even ith those who can afford it))”
How does this specific aspect change anything. Parents who cant afford $1500 a month support, are ALREADY at a disadvantage, all this does is “institutionalize” the concept. The game changer with this plan, is that unlike before, there is a huge financial incentive being dangled in front of shadchanim, that no matter how much time and effort they expend on this girl, there is a guaranteed payday at the end.
“Is NASI abandoning the aniyam of Klal Yisroel?”
I am not a spokesperson for NASI, nor am I in any way affiliated with them, with that said; Has NASI ever billed itself as the champion of the aniyim? Is NASI the only group out there involved in shidduchim? If anyone has an issue with a shadchan who is part of this program, dont use their services, even if it is through a vehicle outside this program.
“The shortage of boys needs to be addressed”
As one shadchan told me, there is no shortage of boys, only a shortage of people willing to look in certain places for those boys.
I am not a spokesperson for NASI, nor am I in any way affiliated with them, with that said; Has NASI ever billed itself as the champion of the aniyim? Is NASI the only group out there involved in shidduchim? If anyone has an issue with a shadchan who is part of this program, dont use their services, even if it is through a vehicle outside this program.
No, but they have billed themselves as looking for a complete solution. This is a path to more problems for most of the poplulation at hand.
Nat-
It looks like you’re starting to understand the issue.
But the reality, whether we like it or not, is that shadchanim will try harder if they have a chance of being compensated. They are volunteers, not licensed professionals.
So they aren’t professionals, yet they expect to be compensated as professionals?
So they’re going to try harder? Is that what we need? More pressure, more lying, twisting more arms?
You can’t imagine how I wished they would have decided to never call me back. I was so relieved whenever a “professional” shadchan said they would never call back (only to break the promise shortly thereafter).
This actually is the biggest help for the poorer girls. it will enable them to get the attention that previoulsly only weathly girls were getting. In fact wealthy girls you can be sure won’t be on the list…
Here’s a question:
Re: the girls who don’t have the money handy etc… if eliyahu hanovi came to town and guaranteed they would be married by chanuka. How much would a 25 year old or a 28 year old girl give for that guarantee…..
we all know they would give 7,000 or 11,000 in a flash… whatever it takes…. Serve pizza at the wedding but at least they’ll dance!
NASI is not eliyahu hanavi…. but her money isn’t spent until after she walks down the aisle…. they aren’t making any promises for results, they aren’t even promising any phone calls. They will get this list into the hands of shadchanim all over the country and there’s a good chance that girls on the list will get attetnion more than if they weren’t on the list.
No one is forcing any girl to join.
any day a girl wants her money back she can have it back. The money belongs to her not to NASI. what does she have to lose… the .025% interest that the money was earning in a savings account.
Only time will tell if it works or not. If it works (meaning girls join and girls get married) then it’s all good. If it doesn’t, meaning either girls don’t join, or they join and don’t get married, then no harm no foul. No one spent any money other than NASI on some ads.
Re: the need for oversight and to instill confidence in the community. VERY true point. As the ad mentioned, they are setting up a system that will leave no room for doubt. It will be strict and it will be transparent. It should be in place shortly and when it is it will be publized.
For the record: the mission of the NASI Project hasn’t changed one iota. Alleviate the shidduch crisis by closing the age gap. This program is another piece of accomplishing that end, by generating massive attention for the girls who didn’t just start dating will result in more for them.
as an aside the 100/400 program (appreciating shadchanim for achiveable results produced for girls who didn’t just start dating) has been tremendously succesful. It is active in 6 different communites and will be coming to two more large in town communities withing the next few weeks.
No one is forcing any girl to join.
I can just see a shadchan telling a 30 year old girl they will only set them up for 13k, now that the price has been given that baseline.
AZ-
Do they get back the $500?
YES
please see post above from m in Israel, where that exact question was asked and answered.
NOT a penny of their money is spent unless the walk down the aisle. Only exception is if a girl from the list gets engaged and insists that the shadchan get paid before the chuppah. In that case the shadchan will recieve it before the chassuna and the 500 will wait till after the chassuna to go to NASI. Otherwise, until the chassuna it’s her money.
I saw the ad, and was nauseated. Because it implys that girls are “worth” x ammount (when in reality, they are priceless).
And what of the boy? Doe he need to pay a fee to be listed or offered? What is he worth?
(No, I better not ask that. That would imply accountability and expectations we want from the boy, and we do not require that)
What a screwy system we have dug for ourselves. Feh.
I saw the ad, and was nauseated. Because it implys that girls are “worth” x ammount (when in reality, they are priceless).
I was nauseated because it implies that older girls are worth more. Why should they be worth more? I am worth more.
Call me a purist, a romantic, rude, or just wrong. I think this is disgusting. Charging someone more by the year? Why are we treating those who form the foundation of Jewish family life like they are being sold with opposite pricing of day old bread? The terrible message is two-fold: That the value of a woman, human being, a precious neshama changes within a matter of two, three, or so years, and that our young men value someone less by a matter of a handful of years? Shallow, to say the least, has no room in Judaism. And if a husband married his wife at 22, she is less valuabe at 23?? Every 22 year old is a more “difficult sell” than every 21 year old? This is how we look at these girls?
As being the recipients of Torah, we should be ashamed that ad was put out there. It shows anything but a Torah view of the sanctity of life, the sanctity of marriage, the sanctity of family, and the sanctity of those young ladies looking to find someone. I think that organization should be approached by community leaders to change the program and young men should be told it is not derech eretz to say you want to date a 22 year old and not a 23 year old, solely on the reason of age. Terrible! It is a disgrace to run such an ad.
From a business standpoint, maybe the plan is good, but it just doesn’t smell right. Nish dos iz unzerer mehalech.
Also, why is not 1 single Rov listed on the Nasi ad. Even the “usual” ones like R’ Kamenetzky and/or Rav Solomon.
Something is strange here.
yungerman1 and gavra_at_work:
if i’m mistaking please correct me, but i believe that rabbeim get paid for their time – not for the teaching.
these people making shidduchim only get paid if they end up making a shidduch that works.
rabbeim obviously (hopefully) teach the children from love of Torah and their students. if they waste a day which could have been used to teach Torah, they still put in a day at work. however, the shadchanim are basically being bribed to find these girls shidduchim.
(i’m not sure if i am making myself clear, but this was the best way i could think of formulating my thoughts. sorry if you don’t understand.)
IF I AM MISTAKING, PLEASE CORRECT ME.
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