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I was just in Israel for sukkos and I wasnt at all scared while there but I am more so afraid with my daughter being there and I’m so far away (Chicago)
Not even so much scared… But the situation is scary &I dont know that even with best judgement helps – so bitachon is important and hishtadlus…
I just cant bear the idea of hwer needing me and me being so far away…
This surely challenges a person’s bitachon; Hashem is in control of all situations. As for your daughter, seminaries generally are overly cautious in such situations (I speak from experience with my daughters all having been there) and even if the situation isn’t so scary, they likely will confine them to the seminary walls or just going in groups. So I would just tell you to continue to daven for her safety and that of everyone else in Israel.
Even with the recent violence, Israel is far safer than the US. Have faith.
What about all the shootings in American schools?
Avi,
Have you heard of shootings in seminaries in Boro Park, Lakewood, Baltimore, Montreal & Manchester?
We have to daven for our children every day no matter where they are.
But I feel for you, A nony mouse.
I’d be nervous too.
Charlie, somehow I don’t agree it’s “far safer” in Israel than in the U.S. Based on what do you say that when there are random acts of terror just about anywhere in Israel?
I definitely feel your pain, Nony. My daughter lives outside of Jerusalem, but my SIL attends kollel in Jerusalem. Everytime I hear of another incident I cry again for our brothers and sisters. It’s heart wrenching to feel so helpless. Yes, we need to daven, we need to say tehillim, we should give tzedakah to help victim’s families. But at the end of the day, only Hashem can control things.
That being said, Flatbusher is correct. Seminaries are probably cancelling planned teylim, and are definitely closely monitoring the girls.
It is pretty scary. I live near Jerusalem and a lot of girls in my class live there. Every time there’s an attack girls call home and make sure it’s not someone close to them. It’s seriously sad.
All we can do is daven. G-d wants us to feel helpless so we can call out to him. Imagine how scary it is for people who live here, who’s neighbors, friends, relatives, teachers, and children live here. You just have a daughter, but imagine all your kids here. It doesn’t take away from the scariness, but just imagine what it’s like for israeli’s…
Charlie and Avi are comparing the violence in inner city slums between gang members shooting each other and public school shootings to Israel in order to make their statement.
It is safer to be a Jew virtually anywhere in chutz l’aaretz that has Jewish communities than to be a Jew in Israel.
Golfer, do you think that she will be in sem her whole life? BTW, did you hear about the firebomb attack on W. 37th St. near 9th Ave. BTW, when I was a new immigrant and told someone in my ulpan who was from France that I was from the Bronx she asked how I could live in such a dangerous place.
Joseph, you are over on the sin of the spies.
you are over on the sin of the spies.
Oh, then let me correct.
It is very safe for Jews to travel, visit or even live in any part of Eretz Yisroel, including the parts of Eretz Yisroel in Lebanon, Jordan, Gaza, Ramallah, Nazareth, Bethleham, etc.
In order to not be over the sin of the spies Avi K and I highly encourage all Jews to visit, make an overnight trip and even move to these areas of Eretz Yisroel.
And let no one dare insinuate that New York, London, Melbourne or Toronto are safer for Jews than Jerusalem, Tel Aviv, Sderot, Maale Adumim, Gaza, Ramallah, Nazareth, Bethleham, Lebanon or Jordan.
Avi, what the meraglim did were to lie about eretz Yisroel. It is quite evident by the events going on in Israel that “safe” is not a word one could use lightly. I have been to Eretz Yisroel many times and even when there is no intifada going on, I still didn’t feel safe, mainly because of the constant possibility of attacks by Arabs. Speaking of which, even 35 years ago, on my first trip, relatives warned me not to go through Shaar Shechem, yet people still do. Not sure why they themselves think it is safe enough, but as it is all Arab, it would seem wise to avoid such places.
what the meraglim did were to lie about eretz Yisroel. According to many commentaries, there were no lies involved.
OK, they didn’t lie but did paint a picture of eretz yisroel that caused bnai Yisroel to despair. So I stand corrected but Joseph did not give an inaccurate report of what is going on there
Charliehall has been reliable about most (or maybe all) things he/she posts on YWN. My gut reaction to his/her comment is that he/she was wrong, but his/her track record is too good to be overruled by my uninformed gut reaction. Uninformed gut reactions are the province of many other YWN posters/commenters.
personally i am surprised anyone is questioning the safety of israel vs here. my guess is that you make your decision based on the news, you don’t want to say anything positive about israel because you will look like a zionist…or you have just never been to chicago
🙂
Nfgo3, what an odd comment. But you dont’ have to go with your gut on this one as others have made equally legitimate comments. To say Israel is “far safer” than America just may not ring true for the people who were shot at and stabbed on a bus, or hit by a car as they wait for a bus stop, etc.
“Based on what do you say that when there are random acts of terror just about anywhere in Israel?”
Look at the homicide rates and the rates of violent crime in general. We have random acts of violence every day in New York. In fact, I experienced one just this afternoon on a transit bus. Baruch HaShem, I am okay.
“BTW, did you hear about the firebomb attack on W. 37th St. near 9th Ave”
Didn’t the NYPD rule that Jews were not the target, that they were just in the wrong place at the wrong time? That was also the case with my bus incident this afternoon.
Charlie, Take out of the stats gang on gang violence, drug dealers killing each other in the slums, public school violence and other such statistics that rarely affect Jews living in the U.S., and instead compare the crime rate in Boro Park or Williamsburg or Teaneck or Monsey or Melbourne or London or Toronto to the rate of homicide and terrorism experienced by Jews in Tel Aviv, Sderot, Jerusalem and Maale Adumim and then tell me where Jews are more likely to be victims.
Syag, it is the other way. It is inevitably Zionists who bring up the topic that Israel is allegedly safer for Jews than New York or Toronto. As you see in this very thread it was Charlie and Avi that initiated the comparison between Israel and chutz. Then when it is pointed out that it is the other way they start wining over the sin of spies. Is it over the sin of spies to note that Toronto is safer for Jews than Southern Lebanon (which is part of Eretz Yisroel) or that Melbourne is safer for Jews than Jordan or that New York is safer for Jews than Ramallah, Eretz Yisroel or that Los Angeles is safer for Jews than Tel Aviv?
Where do Jews experience more war and terror?
yes, joseph, that was my satirical point. That some posters here will argue X just because the zionists are arguing Y, even if it has nothing to do with politics. They don’t want to be caught on the same side of the table, k’ilu.
Seriously tho, I think we were talking safer, not safer-as-a-Jew. and either way, taking out gang violence and all that, I still do believe that it is NOT safer here in the US.
I also believe so many more people fall victim to terminal diseases here than there. I’ve wondered if that is a prescribed suffering designated for us here who don’t live among physical threats. Maybe we are not really “safer” anywhere, it is just a different kind of danger as befitting your surroundings.
To anyone who claims Israel is safer for Jews over any other country, I challenge them with the following. From 1947 through 2015, how many Jews in Israel were killed through terrorism, and any other country where Jews were killed through terrorism. I can safely bet the number is staggeringly higher in Israel.
Its one thing to be a pro Zionist, its another thing to outright lie and deceive.
now you are changing the parameters completely. first is was being safe, now it’s about being targeted as Jews? Let’s keep it where it was. Is it safer to live in Israel than in the states? yes or no. the answer is –
how in the world can you profess to have an answer for this? seriously?
i feel much safer in israel than i do anywhere here. when my kids leave the house on Friday night, I am on shpilkes til they return. When my kids are out late in israel it doesn’t phase me at all. I do feel fearful for my nephew in the IDF, and for good reason. but the ordinary citizen? israel, hands down.
is that the answer? no, its an opinion. as are the other responses.
Flatbusher, when the first Gulf War broke out the chevruta of a friend of mine received a frantic call from his mother. After she calmed down she very matter-of-factly told him that his brother was robbed at gunpoint.
Charlie, what is the difference except to the police who have to have a motive before they can try to solve it, the ADA who has to decide whether or not to ask for a sentence a hate crime and the judge who has to decide whether or not to so sentence them? If c”v they had been injured they would have been just as injured as if they had been targeted as Jews.
I don’t accept one incident as a proof to anything. No one should. In this particular instance, between these terror attacks and suicide bombing attacks of the past and the constant fear that something can happen, well i don’t know where you live, but I don’t share those fears in the U.S. In Israel it’s a constant concern. Of course there are isolated instances, but that’s what they are–isolated.
To flatbusher: What an odd comment. For people who have been maimed or killed, the crime rate is too high. For the rest of us (of which I am one, B”H), crime rates are a rough tool for assessing the risk of being a victim of a crime. Many violent crimes are family affairs, and Jewish victims of those crimes in the US are, I believe, extremely low. Other crimes, like on-the-street assaults and robberies, in the US, affect a broader range of victims and may include – I don’t really know – more Jews than intra-family crimes. (Some gentiles think Chareidi Jews keep lots of money in their black hats, which might invite more crime against them. I am surprised that gentiles don’t know that most Chareidim don’t have much money, especially after they pay the yeshiva tuition, buy the fund-raising-dinner tickets and give tzedukkah.)
nfgo: not sure the point of your last post. The issue was whether it is accurate to say Israel is “far safer” than the U.S. Of course, for the individuals who are victims of attacks is “a crime rate too high,” but that is not the point. As for your parenthetical, who knows what gentiles think about charedi Jews if the reason for attacking them is hatred and not a search for money.
The United States does not collect statistics on the religious affiliation of crime victims unless there is evidence that there was a hate motivation. However, there were 737 Jews who were victims of hate crimes in the United States in 2013, the last year for which statistics have been reported.
That is a rather large number:
Seven hundred and thirty-seven.
Of course we need to know:
-How many Jews are there in the United States?
-What was the nature of the hate crimes? (I’m sure nobody will equate having a swastika painted on a garage door with being stabbed or shot.)
Main thing here is- statistical analyses are interesting, but let’s not lose sight of what’s important:
We need to daven for our children, for all Jewish children, and for Acheinu Kol Bais Yisrael, wherever they happen to be.
The 737 includes crimes like and including having a swastika painted on a garage door or sidewalk. Most of that number did not involve physical violence against people.
Charlie, once again, what is the difference to the victim if he was socked because he is a Jew or because someone wants his money? The fact of the matter is that the crime rate, including terror attacks, in Israel is much lower than in any American city.
I know people there too. We definitely need to send prayers and give tzedaka and stand together. Everything helps. We are the people that dance despite what people do. Lets keep standing together with our prayers and trust in Hashem. May the Geula come soon
We should also call our congressman…
We should also call our Father…
I daven for the Jews who live in my hometown in the U.S. There has been a marked increase in street crime and home invasions. There were riots. I worry for their safety, much more than I do about the safety of my kids living in Yerushalayim.
The riot in Baltimore occurred in non-Jewish neighborhoods and had little violent affect on Jews, whereas in Israel the attacks are targeting and affecting Jews.
Joseph,
I believe your picture is in the dictionary next to the entry for:
“dogmatic”
On the other hand, you have answered a question I’ve had for a while.
Someone once told me that b’Achris HaYamim, the whole world will have the status of Eretz Yisrael. Now supposing that were true, I still had figured out the little street in Yerushalayim where I wished I’d be allowed to live. (I’m sure that street will still exist in Yerushalayim HaBnuya, albeit perhaps with some slight shiputzim.)
And I wondered, who’s going to want to live in Australia, or Switzerland, or Costa Rica?
Now I know…
The riot in Baltimore occurred in non-Jewish neighborhoods and had little violent affect on Jews . . .
Not the street crime and home invasions. That certainly affects the Jewish areas.
Golfer, why would you care to live in Switzerland? It won’t be neutral in bias hamoshiach. You could rent free space in my Yerushalayim basement.
Golfer, that statement is in the Yalkut Shimoni (Yeshayahu Remez 503).The Baal HaTanya (Likutei Tira Masai 89,2) explains that that means that Hashem’s light will appear in Chutz laAretz without anything blocking it, However, our national home will be the area promised to Avraham Avinu.
“The fact of the matter is that the crime rate, including terror attacks, in Israel is much lower than in any American city.”
Precisely my point! Israel is safer than New York.
That’s largely irrelevant, even had it been accurate, considering the statistics include inner city drug dealer-on-drug dealer crime and the fact that most crime victims are family or otherwise familiar with their victimizer, rather than the random type street violence. So the random terror attacks specifically directed at Jews in Israel victimizes us far more than any statistics including husbands being violent to their spouse or drug dealers shooting each other in bad neighborhoods.
Joseph, actually, according to FBI statistics “Of the murders for which the circumstance surrounding the murder was known, 41.8 percent of victims were murdered during arguments (including romantic triangles) in 2010. Felony circumstances (rape, robbery, burglary, etc.) accounted for 23.1 percent of murders. Circumstances were unknown for 35.8 percent of reported homicides.” According to the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime the intentional homicide rate in the US was 4.7 and in Israel 1.8. Thus even discounting family violence the rate in the US is much higher. Then there are other violent felonies, in particular robberies, which are often directed at Jews as they are seen as having money.
After calculating the 23.1%, you also need to exclude drug dealers shooting each other in inner city neighborhoods and other bad guy-on-bad guy and other violence in neighborhoods you don’t find Jews in. And then you can further exclude most of the remaining stats considering Jews are far less likely to be involved in violent crime situations, including as victims, and that certain non-Jewish minority groups are heavily overrepresented in crime statistics. And the remainder is mostly random crime not specifically targeting Jews, who are a tiny percent of even that.
OTOH, the violent terror attacks in Israel are specifically targeting Jews.
We live in Israel and our son is in Yeshiva in a city different from ours, and I worry about him, about the others in the family who travel, about the kids who walk to schools close to where the Arabs are building…
But it is obvious that each bullet has a destination. If Hashem wants it to happen, it will happen, no matter if you are in the States, in Israel, or in China.
A story is circulating about a man on bus 422 (Yerushalayim/Bnei Brak on road 443) who saw a young suspicious arab get on his bus. He was very nervous and was contemplating getting off the next stop, etc, when he decided that he will learn the whole way and that will be a protection from all harm.
At Shilat junction, the Arab pressed the button to get off the bus, and as he was about to go down the steps, he opened his backpack, took out a knife, and said aloud to the passengers – this time I chose not to use it…. and then got off the bus.
May Hashem watch over everyone, wherever they are.
We all have to better ourselves (not others, but ourselves)so that we will see the yeshua.
Well this week we have had attacks targeting Jews right here in New York City. Will the the anti-Zionists here change their memes about galut being so safe?
When have anti-semites r’l murdered Jews in NYC? All the recent reports of murders of Jews r’l being killed for being Jewish have been in Israel.
Please, Chuck, there is no comparison. Citing an isolated incident proves nothing.
It is certainly true that Hashem can do whatever He wants wherever He wants. But that does mean that one should play in traffic. (To be clear, I don’t mean to suggest that visiting or living in Eretz Yisrael under the Zionists is equivalent to playing in traffic.) As well, we daven that Hashem should watch over and keep safe all His children wherever they may be.
But Zionists seem to have this absurd knee-jerk reaction to even the slightest disturbance in chutz laAretz to the effect of, “see, everyone should move to Israel and be idolatrous “Religious Nationalists” like us!” What they neglect to consider, of course, is (in part) that Israel is, by far, the least safest place for Jews, when compared to “normal” places like non-gang/non-violent locales with a normal police force, as Joseph mentioned.
As I recall, after 9/11, the Zionist premier, in a classic Zionist move, attempting to garner love and sympathy from the gentile nations (attempting to “normalize” the Jewish people into a non-Jewish nationalist nation just like the gentiles), declared publicly to the effect that they in Israel had been having 9/11 all the time. The leader, himself, of that idol said it.
Joseph is correct: it seems that as soon as you (easily) prove to a Zionist that, if they were thinking rationally, they would realize that this particular aspect (safety under Zionist rule in E”Y) of Zionism (like the rest of it) is patently and embarrassingly absurd, they then switch tactics and start to get all “religious” and invoke the meraglim.
The Zionist “religious” use of the meraglim is actually part of the Zionist idolatry of grafting Nationalism onto, liHavdil, the Torah. Once you remove the idolatry of Zionism from the equation, the whole thing is revealed to be nothing more than a mirage of nationalism fraudulently posing as, liHavdil, Torah.
Regardless, getting back to the safety question, only the lust of idolatry and heresy (of Zionism) can fool and then convince otherwise bright and accomplished people to attempt to state, and then continue to attempt to defend the statement, that is safest for Jews to live in the Zionist paradise (Israel), with all the rivers of Jewish blood spilled there over the past century since the Zionists invaded, HY”D, rock-throwing attacks by the savages, knife-wielding savages now fully integrated into the population, a politician there calling for all Jews to arm themselves in the streets, etc.
HaKatan, you accused the RZ of idolatry thre times and added “heresy”. Kol ha posel b’mumo posel. In fact, the Gra (quoted by his talmid Rabbi Hillel Rivlin in “Kol HaTor”) and Rav Teichtal (“Em HaBanim Semeicha”) say that the sin of the meraglim will infect many who who hold onto the Tora. In fact, you and your cohorts use the same arguments they used.
Is he automatically a heretic if he calls others heretics? If so, your calling him a heretic makes you one, correct?
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