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a mamin
You can also tell the men different Charedi Groups
Livtish wear a Suit and Tie with a hat and long Beard
Chabad wears a suit, no tie with a very short beard
Pupa wears a streimel with an ear flap (I think its either Pupa or Ger that wears this Streimel)
Satmar Wears a Beaver Streimel usually with a Black Becksha, ALso they have longer Curled Peyes than the rest. They do not hide the Peyos like others might behind the ear.
(I cant tell the difference between some of the other groups)
Some wear White Socks over pants, some under and some wear dark colored socks the same.
Some also wear Beckasha other than Black
Zahavasdad,
Yeah, we all know what goDaddy is. you do NOT need to use their website in order to log on to your email. I was sure that you know that.
I dont know why you are asking me if this or that site should be blocked or not. I was just talking about a filter in general, not about specific sites, that should be between you and your Rav.
Yahoo, that is correct their site is filthy. you can access your yahoo email without accessing their website. this is no excuse of not listening to our Rabonim.
again, I dont know why you keep on singling out sites. It is not my business which sites should be white-listed or not. I was just refuting your argument as to why you CANNOT make money with a filter. that was nonsense.
jbaldy22
You can use OpenDNS.
you can Blacklist sites that inappropriate, should you have the need to access a site that you have yourself blacklisted, you can white-list it in a matter of seconds.
common, your an IT guy.
ZK, well said.
@2scents a blacklist is a waste anyone could circumvent that in a couple of seconds. what are you going to do blacklist every inappropriate website? and if your talking about a filter blacklist we are back to the same problem. having a website enabled in seconds doesnt help me if it takes me forever to figure out what the problem is and the filter becomes an issue all the time. if i actually have to search the website each time and manually put in the data there is not much point of using a scraper.
“OK, So being addicted to the internet is not an addiction, who says that it has to have a label?
It does not change the situation.”
of course it does – prolonged exposure to the internet by a person with seichel is not a problem – saying that there is an issue with it is not helpful as it implies that you are trying to do away with the internet in its entirety. read the whole pamphlet and tell me thats not the impression you get.
@boobie i just saw your comment towards me so i will respond – therapists im sure also talk about sports addictions too that doesnt make it real. yes people with obsessive compulsive tendencies are drawn to it but that is because they use elements on the net to satiate their compulsions not because the net is addictive – texting is not addictive either and as it is incredibly unlikely that the APA will ever categorize them as such.
Zehavasdad: Just what I thought, you have absolutely no idea the difference between Chasidim, ladies for sure!! Many different chasiduses cover their sheitel and talk Yiddish, not only Satmer! Pupa, Sqver, Viznitz,Bobov,Belz and the list goes on and on….
Zehavasdad: Just what I thought, you have absolutely no idea the difference between Chasidim, ladies for sure!! Many different chasiduses cover their sheitel and talk Yiddish, not only Satmer! Pupa, Sqver, Viznitz,Bobov,Belz and the list goes on and on….
Its not just the hair covering there is more to their dress
Also near Macys in manhattan its likely to Satmar because they are fairly close to it, they come with Baby carriages that is fairly easy to carry on the Subway. Many Chassidic groups live in Rockland County and thats harder to get to the city especially with double and triple baby (I am well aware that Bobov Live in Borough Park) but Squarer, Visnitz mostly live near monsey. I am not sure where Pupa and Belz live, although I think its Monsey
Oh my, the more you talk about chasidish women, the more I see how little you know!! Where do you live five towns? This is really going off the topic of this thread, which is by far more important than discussing the differences between chasidish womens way of dress! Just leave it at this, all your internet knowledge is definitely not giving you an education in chasidus thats for sure!!
Disclaimer: The following, also from the asifa brochure, is a work of fiction, and won’t prove anything to someone who thinks access to technology is not a dangerous thing.
Future e-Ramifications
Sunday, May 20, 2012
But Yitzy made sure to keep the hard facts carefully hidden from others. As far as his friends and acquaintances knew, he was successfully manipulating the opportunities offered by the internet to advance his fast-growing business.
May 2017
Still, Yitzy was careful to keep to his word. There was not one computer to be found in his home. None of the primitive hard drives, keyboards and processors were wired up together. That would be exposing his children to unnecessary risk.
May 2022
Sarah used her iShop to order her gown and jewelry for the evening. Nobody would have dreamed 10 years ago that someday you could sit in the comfort of your living room and view a complete catalog in 3D, just as if the item were right in front of you! The caterer, decorator and musicians were hand-picked, based on who had earned the best internet ratings.
Yitzy was reminded of the massive asifa of 10 years before when the rabbis had made such a big deal about the internet. Now they were arranging a follow-up asifa for the public to renew its commitment to avoid unnecessary use of the internet in any form. Over 100,000 Orthodox Jews were expected to participate this time around.
May 2027
Yitzy could tell the issue was closed and there was nothing further he could do. Fuming, he cut off the image of the principal without bothering to say goodbye. The Yom Tov passed in a blur and Yitzy frantically tried to find a new yeshiva for his son, but it seemed that they were all in communication with each other. Whomever he spoke to responded politely but firmly that there was no room for Yossi in their yeshiva.
Weeks passed and there was no improvement in the situation. Yossi was sitting at home wasting his entire day, from night until morning, with the newest device his father had given him a few months before. It was a fantastic phone, toy, player and much more all wrapped in one.
Of course, it was powered by continuous online interaction, but who was still concerned about that? After observing the change in his son, though, Yitzy was forced to face the sinking feeling that perhaps the yeshiva principal had been right after all. He sat back and thought the matter over. There was no other choice. He would have to find a way to get Yossi back into the same yeshiva. But if the principal was dead set against it, how could he accomplish that?
Their conversation was over, but Yitzy could not bring himself to move. He sat in the same place for a long while mulling over what the Rosh Yeshiva had just told him. Hardest of all was to admit that he, Yitzy, the self-proclaimed expert on modern technology, had erred drastically. The rabbis had been right after all, of course, and he of all people had been trapped by the yetzer hara into the most pernicious of errors.
May 2032
Now Yitzy could no longer find cheap suppliers for his products. With the gray market effectively closed, Yitzy tried competing directly with the wide range of new products and applications that flooded the retail market in the new Grid epoch. Massive fiber-optic cables now crisscrossed America, replacing the primitive telephone and cable lines that once transmitted messages and data. Now the entire Europe and North America relied solely on the unified cable service to provide VoIP. You could no longer get telephone service without being connected to the Grid. And that same cable delivered television and movies, including the most depraved. All you needed was a small device to access the information that was present. And despite all the efforts by responsible Jews to keep television and movies out of their homes, there was always the worry that one of the children would obtain any of various devices that would allow them to access everything.
Newspapers, that all-American pastime, had entirely disappeared to be replaced by iPapers that were updated hourly. And virtually any information you needed was now available in an instant using the TalkTalk technology. Anything you needed to know, find or buy could be presented as a verbal query and TalkTalk would tell you where to find out or whatever you wanted to know.
Recently, the new I-glasses had become an overnight sensation. Using a wireless connection to the Grid, these glasses provided you with all sorts of information about whatever building or site you looked at, such as what was inside and even the history of the building!
Even videos were almost entirely on their way out. Now holograms were used to give you the feeling of a live conversation with a person who was actually on the other side of the world. Teleconferences between executives now took on the feel of personal meetings as the realtime image of participants at widely distributed locations joined in holographic unity. When a major event was organized in Eretz Yisrael, Jews in America could participate fully sitting in their own auditorium. They watched a live hologram of the speakers as they delivered their message, complete with gestures, from thousands of miles away.
Yossi had long since left the picture entirely, and his minimal contact since then had only been to encourage his younger siblings to join his dissolute ways. Unfortunately, more than one of them had been convinced. Yitzy tried spending some time studying Gemara. After years of constant exposure to the ever-changing technology, however, he found that he could not concentrate on anything anymore.
May 2062
It was the voice of his wife Sarah, who sounded very concerned.
DY: Read that too, and thought it was the silly one of the bunch. Worst of all, it is bad writing, the “it was all a dream, I’ll change” is lame, to say the least.
I’m still waiting for your response re: Asifa Rabbonim.
The Asifa Rabbonim, like Rav Matisyahu Solomon, Rav Malkiel Kotler, the Skulener Rebbe, Rav Ahron Schechter, etc. etc. etc. do not hold it assur to work in the outside world. B&H, which is Satmar and as Chasidish as they get, and has the support of the Satmar Rebbe, works smack in middle of Manhattan right in the goyishe world.
I’m still waiting for your response re: Asifa Rabbonim.
I’m waiting for yours. You avoided responding to the part I called you out on (parnassah being assur) and instead wanted to discuss kollel vs, working, which is a topic for another thread.
the “it was all a dream, I’ll change” is lame
Tell that to the guy who shot J.R. 😉
did you really expect me to read the entire megillah?!
My friends FIL was born in Romania to a Satmar Family (I think)
I met him many times before he died and I used to ask him about his life before the war and during (I like to hear oral histories of this time perioid as its being forgotten)
He told me one He remembers this old lady bragging how she had no relatives in America (This was about 1937) and how proud she was of her family that nobody emigrated.
I dont think he ever saw her again, but one can guess how the story ended, even if the old lady survived.
What does this have to do with DY story , everything , Just because someone gives a Moshal doesnt mean its correct, I am sure there were many such “MOSHALS” given between the years 1880-1939 and what terrible things would happen to people if they emigrated to the US. Take the same story, change the years change the internet to America and make some changes that would apply to America instead of the internet (IE the electronics store)
Make the last year instead of May 2062 ,make it May 1962
Change it to
I am sure such stories were told to people
The Asifa Rabbonim, like Rav Matisyahu Solomon, Rav Malkiel Kotler, the Skulener Rebbe, Rav Ahron Schechter, etc. etc. etc. do not hold it assur to work in the outside world. B&H, which is Satmar and as Chasidish as they get, and has the support of the Satmar Rebbe, works smack in middle of Manhattan right in the goyishe world.
B&H has mostly frum men, and separate floors. The men in the office never see any women. Those on the floor are experts, not Chassidim. Meshom Rayiah?
And to your first point, Rabbi’s Shechter, Harari, etc. did not speak at the Asifa. Perhaps they should have. I imagine that there would have been a much better response had the Agudah been involved. Rav Shmuel (IMHO) would not have agreed with the language used, at the very least. The Gedolim baruch Hashem were smart to realize the disaster that it would become, at least in the eyes of the litvish community outside Lakewood (but the damage control seems to have worked, boruch Hashem).
Tell that to the guy who shot J.R. 😉 Dallas?! Perhaps it was new 30 years ago.
I’m waiting for yours. You avoided responding to the part I called you out on (parnassah being assur) and instead wanted to discuss kollel vs, working, which is a topic for another thread.
I said Parnassah is B’dieved, and working “outside” is “mini” assur (by those rabbonim of the Asifa). Kollel vs. working is the “parnassa is B’dieved” point.
My quote again:
ZD: I believe that you miss a very big point in the whole process. The rabbonim of the Asifa view the entire concept of Parnassa in general, and specificly outside the insular community, as a big b’dieved, if not outright assur.
@ZAHAVASDAD: “Lubavitch have short beards?!” oh my. Seems your lack of knowledge is not only on the subject of Internet dangers. Lubavitch are known not to trim their beards…
Rip the internet out of the house and take away your husbands smart phone and all your problems will go away
GAW,
As long as you insist that the rabbonim consider working “mini assur” (whatever that means), I have nothing to retract.
You are being m’vazeh talmidei chachomim, and completely misrepresenting their opinions and motives.
Unless your use of the term “mini assur” is a retraction from your insinuation that they contemplate the possibility that working is assur, but your too embarrassed to just admit that you overstepped your bounds.
Do you realize how silly it sounds top say that rabbonom hold it’s assur to earn a living through honest work?
The description of “futuristic technology” is hilarious. a lot of that stuff is actually available now or will be available commercially with in the next 2-3 years.
“and consider it a punishment
It is – B’zeias apecha tochal lechem is a curse.
they certainly do not look positively upon it as a a mitzva asseh in the same vain as they do putting on Tfillin”
The need to wear clothing was another consequence Adam’s sin.
Perhaps with every piece of clothing we put on we should sigh, “Oy because of Adam’s sin I have to put on this item. Oy, Oy, Oy.”
The description of “futuristic technology” is hilarious. a lot of that stuff is actually available now or will be available commercially with in the next 2-3 years.
In the original brochure, they actually had mareh m’komos for the technology!
Malignancies of the Mind
The science fiction books and films that present virtual realities in which figures from the computer screen jump out at you and attack in real life are no longer fiction at all. In a very literal sense, all of the vices humans have uncovered over the millennia are now attacking internet users daily, jumping out at them from the screen and in many cases going on to destroy their personal lives.
Irreverence
In this context, it can be said without hesitation that the internet presents by far the greatest challenge to the authority of our Torah leaders today. Our nation has been guided throughout its history by our leaders, those individuals who form the unbroken chain of Torah legacy beginning with Moshe Rabbeinu at Har Sinai. The Torah commands us to act upon the guidance of our leaders, who take their advice from the words of the Torah.
Even if it were not an article of faith, history shows that our rabbonim have not let us down. The Torah leaders have guided us on how to respond to every attack, problem and crisis that we have faced during our long and often difficult existence. Only in the merit of our Torah and the bearers of its flag have we survived the incredible physical and spiritual dangers of the past 3,000 years.
The internet is an open and limitless domain. Every user potentially puts himself directly in touch with the most depraved minds on the face of our planet. These are people we would be scared to converse with face-to-face, yet in the sterile world of virtual reality they may become teachers, mentors and closest confidents.
Superficiality
If medical experts and professors are alarmed at what is happening to our generation, how much more so must we be concerned about protecting the most precious and vital aspect of our very being?
Addiction
Internet users relinquish control of their minds and actions.
Like smokers, who are the first to dash out of shul motzaei Shabbos to grab that cigarette they have been craving all afternoon, frum internet users will grab their cell or dash to their computer at the first opportunity to satisfy that urge that has been nagging them all day.
Worse yet, internet addiction has driven people to the most destructive behaviors toward themselves and others around them. Much has been written in scientific literature about internet addicts who have been driven to the point of murder! A study showed that as many as 10 million Chinese youths are so addicted to the internet that they are in need of medical assistance. The New York Times reported on a research study conducted in Maryland that found that 200 people who were blocked from their regular access to the web displayed extreme signs of irritability and other abnormal behavior. Regular use of the internet is being blamed in part for the increased incidence of ADHD among children. Companies have reported that after restricting their workers from spurious access to the internet they saw jumps in productivity of 50%!
Societal Breakdown
The rise of social networking, blogs, chat groups, and even texting all threaten to destroy the traditional relationships that are still so vital to our societal wellbeing. Family and friends are forgotten as people come to rely more and more on the companionship and approval of their virtual counterparts. But these companions are only a superficial, false substitute for the healthy relationships we still need.
The internet is presiding over the breakdown of our family, friendships, and society as a whole.
Depravity
[this was shortly after the Holocaust from which the Rosh Yeshiva escaped]
To this Torah giant, a forbidden sight was worse than death.
Unfortunately, there have been innumerable stories of people who have not stopped at seeing. These were individuals who would never have dreamed of compromising their lives and characters in such a manner before they began using the internet. In recent years the dayanim who deal with gittin have begun
to deal daily with divorces in which the internet was the root cause.
The element of anonymity that the internet provides allows people to bypass the natural, inborn shame they would normally feel when involved in inappropriate behavior. Therefore, Harav Shmuel Wosner, a senior posek of our generation, ruled that one must observe the halachos of yichud, seclusion with a member of the opposite gender, in regard to the internet.
Negative Character Traits
Criminality
There is much more that we have not touched on yet in the limited space available here. We have not even touched upon the internet as a gathering for criminals, cults and worse. It is a means by which innocent people are unwittingly trapped, and cheated. Copyright infringement and piracy are a reality every nanosecond. Gambling has shattered the lives of too many upstanding individuals within our own communities.
Conclusion
It must be underscored that the internet is still in its infancy. The web first became available some 20 years ago and only became popular in the Jewish world more recently, over the past decade. The potential for it to overtake our lives and society entirely in the foreseeable future cannot be underestimated.
By following the call of our leaders, our gedolim and rabbonim.
Amongst things in the booklet that do not logically follow (this is a lot of fun for someone like me who took the lsats):
A case in point: some claim they save $30-$40
per month shopping online rather than going to
the mall. That claim is debatable. Many husbands
who track their expenditures have told me that
the built-in shopping mall at home actually costs a
lot more than it saves, because shopping becomes
so easy that it encourages over-consumption. But
justify the danger of having the internet at home
just for the convenience and possible savings of
shopping online.
@DY some of the mareh mkomos that were used in that story were 4 years old!
JB,
What doesn’t follow about over-consumption?
Malignancies of the Mind
The science fiction books and films that present virtual realities in which figures from the computer screen jump out at you and attack in real life are no longer fiction at all. In a very literal sense, all of the vices humans have uncovered over the millennia are now attacking internet users daily, jumping out at them from the screen and in many cases going on to destroy their personal lives.
Irreverence
In this context, it can be said without hesitation that the internet presents by far the greatest challenge to the authority of our Torah leaders today. Our nation has been guided throughout its history by our leaders, those individuals who form the unbroken chain of Torah legacy beginning with Moshe Rabbeinu at Har Sinai. The Torah commands us to act upon the guidance of our leaders, who take their advice from the words of the Torah.
Even if it were not an article of faith, history shows that our rabbonim have not let us down. The Torah leaders have guided us on how to respond to every attack, problem and crisis that we have faced during our long and often difficult existence. Only in the merit of our Torah and the bearers of its flag have we survived the incredible physical and spiritual dangers of the past 3,000 years.
The internet is an open and limitless domain. Every user potentially puts himself directly in touch with the most depraved minds on the face of our planet. These are people we would be scared to converse with face-to-face, yet in the sterile world of virtual reality they may become teachers, mentors and closest confidents.
@DY there are a couple of flaws – many is not most (percentage vs. number flaw), and it assume that shopping in a store also doesnt encourage overconsumption. also the article disputes with the “some” who claim that they save by saying that “many” don’t.those 2 actually can both be true.
@JB,
It doesn’t claim most. The point it’s making (and I don’t need to defend it because I didn’t write it) is that even some who feel they are saving money are actually spending more than they otherwise would. And it’s not making the claim that there’s no over-consumption in stores; just that there’s more over-consumption online.
Malignancies of the Mind
The science fiction books and films that present virtual realities in which figures from the computer screen jump out at you and attack in real life are no longer fiction at all. In a very literal sense, all of the vices humans have uncovered over the millennia are now attacking internet users daily, jumping out at them from the screen and in many cases going on to destroy their personal lives.
Irreverence
In this context, it can be said without hesitation that the internet presents by far the greatest challenge to the authority of our Torah leaders today. Our nation has been guided throughout its history by our leaders, those individuals who form the unbroken chain of Torah legacy beginning with Moshe Rabbeinu at Har Sinai. The Torah commands us to act upon the guidance of our leaders, who take their advice from the words of the Torah.
Even if it were not an article of faith, history shows that our rabbonim have not let us down. The Torah leaders have guided us on how to respond to every attack, problem and crisis that we have faced during our long and often difficult existence. Only in the merit of our Torah and the bearers of its flag have we survived the incredible physical and spiritual dangers of the past 3,000 years.
The internet is an open and limitless domain. Every user potentially puts himself directly in touch with the most depraved minds on the face of our planet. These are people we would be scared to converse with face-to-face, yet in the sterile world of virtual reality they may become teachers, mentors and closest confidents.
DY: We are not even on the same highway, let alone going in different directions. I will drop the point, as it is only a side issue. Let it be known that I do NOT believe the Gedolim have anything against parnassah in general (for women, or men not in kollel. For men who can learn it is not allowed, as they must stay in Kollel.), but some do seem to have something against working in an office setting with a mixed crowd.
P.S. I would have thought that “Dallas” would not be in your repertoire.
GAW,
You’ve still got it wrong, but I’ll drop it as well. I’ll be glad to explain – on a different thread.
Re: Dallas
I figured I’d surprise you with that one. FTR, I never saw it, but it was a big topic of discussion back then, and is still a template for cop-out storytelling.
@DY if its not most than the article makes no sense. if i told you that shopping online is not worth it because some people overconsume that would sound silly. the author is trying to confuse people by using the word many – which could in fact be a minority to convince people that shopping online does not save money for most people. also if shopping in a store also causes overconsumption (in its own way) than online still provides a bigger savings since the prices are less. even if most dont save that doesnt mean that some don’t save – and the author is disputing the “some who claim they do save.” Again nothing about that piece logically follows except for the end of it which is that it might not be worth the risk. By seeking alternate legitimization in such a fashion the author is actually undermining his point.
@JB,
The author is making a very valid point, even if you don’t like his wording, the the potential savings from the better pricing online could easily be offset by the tendency to overspend because of the tendency to overbuy.
It’s actually a very narrow point, which merely addresses one possible advantage of having internet access.
The Lakewood “takanos” specifically address the fact that better pricing online is not considered parnassah, and I believe that this may be the reason.
@DY I agree with the author that one can overspend more online and that people confuse value with savings and make impulse buys. However that is not the author’s point. the author is saying that the people who say they have the internet because they save money are wrong. I disagree with that – there are plenty of people who do in fact save money online. “some claim they save $30-$40
per month shopping online rather than going to
the mall. That claim is debatable.” Nothing the author said disproved what “some claim”.
“A case in point: some claim they save $30-$40
per month shopping online rather than going to
the mall. “
Even if that were true, we are willing to spend hundreds on other mitzvos like esrog, lulav, mehudar tefillin, etc etc – we can’t push ourselves in order to save our neshamos and stay connected to Hashem and extra $30-40 per month?
Even if you’re shopping weekly, you would likely spend more than that on most Y”T expenses and other devarim shebikdushah and this is much more than that, it’s saving the neshamos of yourself and your children!
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