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World Fair
Imagine that once each a year a major international fair is held at the Javitz Conference Center in Manhattan. People from all over the world get together for several days to share business ideas, exchange news, meet friends
and just enjoy themselves. For the sake of equality, everyone dresses similarly and wears a name tag that may or may not reflect the name they go by at home.
We are so careful not to eat food until we see at least some sort of hechsher. We may even refrain from buying a sefer until we see a haskama (approbation) from a familiar rabbinical name. How is it then that we can trust ourselves to study the words of people whose beliefs and guiding principles are directly at odds with everything we hold dear?
We have read the stories of the impossible trials of keeping Shabbos in America during the early part of the previous century. The greenhorns who came from Europe were immediately mocked by the established Jews who told them there was no future for religion in the New World. Those who ignored the derision, the daring few, soon discovered that the words they had been told were a reality. There was no way to find a job if one insisted on keeping Shabbos. And so a new Jew developed, Jews who would wear a yarmulke and keep kosher but go to work on Shabbos. There were hashkama minyanim for the workers to finish the longer Shabbos morning prayers early enough to reach their jobs in time for the opening of the doors.
Looking back with the hindsight of over 50 years, we find it difficult to comprehend. We understand that the temptation was overwhelming, but how could a person consider themselves an Orthodox, practicing Jew if they were transgressing Shabbos?!
Stop and think about it. Are we not guilty of allowing ourselves to lose the most important aspects of our Jewish identity, even as we keep Shabbos and kashrus, even as we daven and learn, even as we support a Torah infrastructure on a scale the world has never seen before? Are we not turning ourselves into assimilated Jews?
The secular world has already woken up to the fact that the internet is not all fun and games. In China, where internet addiction plagues millions of youths, over 200 boot camps have been set up under military-style control of active soldiers where children are prevented from accessing any technological device whatsoever.
They must follow a strict daily regimen that includes labor and difficult exercises. Those who broke camp regulations were beaten or subjected to lengthy shock treatment, until several accidental fatalities aroused a storm of protests and the government was forced to crack down.
While we do not propose setting up a similar rehabilitation system, the intensity of the response by the non-Jewish world should tell us something about the severity of the problem and how it is meant to be handled. We stand to lose much more than any other nation if our identifying features are erased from the next generation. Should we be any less serious than they in our response to the crisis?
We must begin to admit to ourselves the nature of the disgusting and horrendous trap set for us. We must evince at least the same horror we show when confronted by a harmless spider regarding internet use in our midst.
Technology is a potent tool. While we have concentrated for the most part on the internet itself, much should also be spoken about the problems inherent in the universal access provided by e-mail, in the constant connection created by cell phone use (without internet), and especially the dangers of text messaging.
Our rabbonim have spread the alarm. It is up to us, however, to face the reality and respond accordingly. The fire is burning out of control; it is spreading quickly to our own homes. When we arrive in the World of Truth and are held accountable for our apathy, we will not be able to say that we had not been warned.
Conclusion
We are standing at the threshold of Mashiach. Our gedolim have been saying for generationsthat America would be the final galus. The dramatic,exponential increase in the nisyonos is perhaps the best oracle that prophesies the imminent arrival of the Geulah.
The real reason I am opposed to the “internet challanges” is this is how I make my parnassah.
Its clear from the thread about auctions that many dont know how the system works and are making false Chumras and Halachas.
And Yes I DO need unfiltered internet. I sell stuff online. I dont sell Jewish stuff, I sell popular stuff and I have to know whats popular so I know what to sell. I have to use FB and Twitter to make sales. You have to for example twitter a listing to get it in Google to make a sale.
DY you were correct in the other thread. I am not B&H I am another anonymous seller on those sites (Amazon and eBay) (I do have a website, but it hardly ever gets a sale) There is no indication anything about me except where I am located.
Its clear that many do not know how making incomes online works, All they hear about is the bad stuff. There are probably alot more people like me who make their income online and need to do research online for stuff thats popular, which might mean going to websites that are “Filtered”.
Its the same reason I need a smartphonw
Many times I am out and I see something that looks interesting to sell, but I am no expert in most things so I whip out my smart phone and look it up either via the Bar Code reader or so searches on Amazon and eBay.
ZD,
You don’t need unfiltered internet, you just need settings in your filter which work for you, not the default settings.
I don’t think any of the rabbonim involved object to using internet for parnassah; your opposition is based on a misunderstanding.
As for false chumros and halachos posted on the internet, that’s just another argument for avoiding the unnecessary parts of the web.
Speak to a competent, reliable posek, and follow his direction (his psak will undoubtedly be based on the facts as you present them, not as some anonymous CR poster presents them) and never mind the misinformation.
It sounds like you have presented the shaila, and if so you have no reason to be defensive about how you make your living (or as R’ Gifter used to say, how you “take a living)”.
People who know me personally totally understand, however people who dont know me personally but I might see in person have the exact opinion of many of the posters here.
Even people who know me but dont understand the whole system dont totally get it. I know you dont know me, But I doubt that you knew that you use Twitter to submit listing to google and I dont expect you to. There are people who use BLOGS to promote their products
I heard the same speeches at the asifa as you did. People wondered here why I went, the reason was because people who know me thought I would be interested.
People heard the speeches at the Asifa and its a shame, they heard how evil the internet is, but they didnt hear how good it was. If you hear how evil it is, why would you use it for good.
I dont even think the organizers understood this. Id have to spend many hours speaking to them to explain exactly why everything is needed and then perhaps likely they would say it would be OK for me , (quietly of course)
But there are so many other people who could benefit
I dont “Poskin” from people here I know better and I have a thicker skin than you think, but I know there are others and lurkers who see the same “Psak” and assume those posters know what they are talking about and maybe or maybe not see me and see an apikorais.
@zahavasdad, DaasYochid there is a very big difference between what rabbonim will say in public as general answers to questions and what they will say in private as an answer to a personal shaila. the problem i had with the asifa is precisely the impressions many seem to have that if they ask a shaila the rov will not understand them and that he won’t get it. this is not true in many cases and a lot of rabbonim/poskim are extremely knowledgeable and what they don’t know they will ask you about. as i have repeated before there are plenty of rabbonim who will be ok with unfiltered internet for work purposes on a cased by case basis.
The Problem is they denounce the internet in public as “The Chochma of Behamos” someone listening to this will hear the Mussur speech and think the same thing
This same person might have a business idea to make money off the internet if its eBay, Amazon, Google (SEO) , FB, Twitter blogs (I know people who have made incomes off blogs) but since the Gedolim has declared the internet the Temuah of Egypt they will persue other sources of incomes, they might not see the nuances that a Rav will allow him and NOT EVEN ASK THE SHAILA.
FYI Ive seen people here condemn eBay , the damage that is done is alot worse than you realize
@zahavasdad considering that I make plenty of money off a blog and have been involved in many projects in which seo,ppc, facebook, twitter were very important I fully understand what you are saying. I think that there are certain rabbanim who tend to give a bad name to the rest and don’t seem to realize the power of their rhetoric.I am well aware of the damage that has been caused and there are many upstanding frum people who are now more reluctant to ask shailos on personal issues in part because of this. there are many people who do not have a rav for anything besides for Hilchos Nida. I beleive that these rabbonim have caused the greatest lack of emunas chachomim that has existed in probably the last 50 years.
JB:
the problem i had with the asifa is precisely the impressions many seem to have that if they ask a shaila the rov will not understand them and that he won’t get it.
That’s an emunas chachomim issue, it has nothing to do with the asifa (although many people’s emunas chachomim deficiencies were quite evident in discussing the asifa).
ZD:
The Problem is they denounce the internet in public as “The Chochma of Behamos”
Because that’s how many people use it.
but since the Gedolim has declared the internet the Temuah of Egypt they will persue other sources of incomes
That’s a good thing.
they might not see the nuances that a Rav will allow him and NOT EVEN ASK THE SHAILA
I give people more credit than that.
FYI Ive seen people here condemn eBay
For buying or selling?
I beleive that these rabbonim have caused the greatest lack of emunas chachomim that has existed in probably the last 50 years.
Lack of emunas chachomim was always blamed, by those who are guilty of it, on the chachomim. Nothing new here.
@DY I can only tell you what i see and hear, and think of it from their perspective especially if they are used to being heavy internet users for their jobs or even recreationally, people are being asked to give up something that to them is a way of life and dont tell me there arent sacrifices – rabbonim are responsible for making their message clear to people – my rosh yeshiva is always extremely careful with that and i have great respect for him because of that. yes there have always been laitzonim and there always will be but when you start losing the average person thats when you know youre in trouble. based on speeches i have personally heard and have heard recordings and reports of, there are “certain” (not most) rabbonim who are being careless (i hope – dan lcaf zchus) and these rabbonim in my opinion are causing this. when we take all of the kannaus out of things and have an adult discussion most people are of the same view and have similar concerns once they are made aware of all of the problems. anyone with children would have to be blind not to. the key is to not turn these people off to not tell them they are ovrei and misayea ovrei averia and worse, people have to use seichel when words come out of their mouth. yes you are right the emunas chachomim issues stemmed from things that happened before the asifa but the asifa did not help things in that regard. you can call me whatever names you want but it doesnt change the facts on the ground. we have to be clear to everyone that we are all on the same side.
ZD: I believe that you miss a very big point in the whole process. The rabbonim of the Asifa view the entire concept of Parnassa in general, and specificly outside the insular community, as a big b’dieved, if not outright assur.
Based on that mindset, the internet should not really be used for work either. Anything the removes Yidden from the outside world is inherently good.
Now try to understand the asifa & rabbonim in that context. It makes much more sense.
JB,
if they are used to being heavy internet users for their jobs or even recreationally, people are being asked to give up something that to them is a way of life
You’re not getting the same message as I am if you can put use of internet for someone’s job in the same category as recreational use.
The rabbonim of the Asifa view the entire concept of Parnassa in general, and specificly outside the insular community, as a big b’dieved, if not outright assur.
Why are you trying to be motzi shem ra on rabbonim?
ZD,
What GAW wrote is absolutely false. The rabbonim DO care about people’s parnassah, and for him to suggest that they hold it’s possibly assur to engage in earning parnassah is comical (if not vicious).
What jbaldy22 wrote, that a private shaila will be treated differently than public policy, is more accurate (although I’m skeptical that completely unfiltered/unmonitored internet would be allowed).
I totally get the point.
That is EXACTLY why I make many points here .
If the Rabbonim give different answers in Private than Public (Which they probably do)
The shouldnt say “The Internet is the Chochma of Behamos and the Temuah of Mitzrayim” (The Rhetoric)
Why would you want to use the internet when a Tzaddick is crying when he is speaking about it. You would think C’V I should ask a Shailla about it the Dzinnger Rav (I think thats how its spelled) cried over the internet, why should I make him upset.
Would you eat treif if it made the Rebbe upset, why would you make him upset over the interent
They should say NOTHING or say minimalist things like SPEAK TO YOU ROV without the Rhetoric or crying.
@DY I asked a shaila and i was allowed so obviously it happens. dealing with internet for adults is different than dealing with internet for children – my rosh yeshiva believes that children should not be on internet connected computers whatsoever. You are creating a straw man argument again with the recreational and business internet users – what i obviously meant is that it is a way of life for people asking people to change that is difficult and the only way to get the results you want is to treat them like normal people as opposed to people who are irredeemable. to say it is not difficult for people is silly and i feel that there are certain rabbonim who because they are not fully aware of what people are going through are more than a little callous with their language.
to say it is not difficult for people is silly
Which is why I don’t recall anyone saying that.
What GAW wrote is absolutely false. The rabbonim DO care about people’s parnassah, and for him to suggest that they hold it’s possibly assur to engage in earning parnassah is comical (if not vicious).
YOU are putting words into my mouth. Of course they care about Parnassah, but they still view it as a B’dieved. So do you. Chazal have a different opinion, as did Rav Miller Z”TL.
Want to take that back? Or do you want to get into the Kollel vs. working argument (on the “working” side!!!)
I asked a shaila and i was allowed
Did you also ask whether you’re allowed to advocate for unfiltered internet on a public website?
i feel that there are certain rabbonim who because they are not fully aware of what people are going through are more than a little callous with their language.
Or maybe they know what they’re doing, to convince as many people as possible to avoid the terrible fate that they have seen many go through. Why should you assume they don’t have a valid reason?
YOU are putting words into my mouth.
I am not the one who wrote, and I quote (emphasis mine), “the entire concept of Parnassa in general, and specificly outside the insular community, as a big b’dieved, if not outright assur.
Which words did I put in your mouth?
Want to take that back?
Not unless you can clarify your statement (in which case, I will gladly take it back and apologize).
@DY again with the straw man argument i am sensing a pattern here. what i am advocating for is that people ask their rav because in most cases they will be pleasantly surprised and most rabbonim will be willing to work with them. generalized speeches and impractical asifas tend to scare people away. if you notice i was in favor of the flatbush internet asifa and very much appreciated the way it was arranged how the speeches were coordinated and that it was very SOLUTIONS oriented.
“Or maybe they know what they’re doing, to convince as many people as possible to avoid the terrible fate that they have seen many go through. Why should you assume they don’t have a valid reason?”
if that is their reason they are not intelligent people i think it is better to assume that they don’t fully understand the situation. You will convince very few people by being a kanai.
DY, I’m just reading all (ok not every one) of your posts. Are they your’s? I think they’re really fantastic, really thought provoking. Do you work for any of the organizers? I think you’d be a great asset to any such organization.
@DY Many of the speakers at the asifa admitted they never used the internet, They were only repeating “What they were told” They of course were told there is Schmutz there and its terrible.
They were told Blogs have terrible Loshon Harah and terrible things against the Gedolim
They were told People can buy things with a click of a button on Amazon and ebay faster than you can say a Bracha.
They were told marriages were destroyed by FB and Twitter.
And of course these things were told to them by such Ehrich Yidden (Otherwise known as Askanim) People who only want the best for Klal Yisroel.
I seriously doubt they were told there are people who make incomes off eBay and Amazon. That you need Blogs, FB and Twitter to promote your items and make sales . That you can make money on Blogs, FB and twitter by managing peoples social media pages.
I heard the statment “We are clicking ourselves into vegetables” , Well People “Clicking” is how I make money.
I am not even promoting Torah websites or sites like Jdate. I dont know how many people actually use this sites, but ALOT of people, In fact probably MORE than are “Schmutz addicts” make part of all of their parnassah from the internet
again with the straw man argument i am sensing a pattern here.
The only pattern I see here is your misrepresenting my opinion and then saying I am creating a straw man.
if you notice i was in favor of the flatbush internet asifa and very much appreciated the way it was arranged how the speeches were coordinated and that it was very SOLUTIONS oriented.
And you know as well as I do that it never would have happened without the CitiField asifa. The first asifa, for practical considerations (my conjecture) ended up being merely a catalyst for future asifos and solution oriented programs (hotlines, technology centers, etc.).
if that is their reason they are not intelligent people i think it is better to assume that they don’t fully understand the situation</em.
Why can’t you contemplate a third possibility, that you’re wrong? That’s what emunas chachomim is, accepting their words even without fully understanding.
You will convince very few people by being a kanai.
Kanai? Posting on YWN? I don’t think you know what a kanai is.
Many of the speakers at the asifa admitted they never used the internet, They were only repeating “What they were told” They of course were told there is Schmutz there and its terrible.
They were told Blogs have terrible Loshon Harah and terrible things against the Gedolim
They were told People can buy things with a click of a button on Amazon and ebay faster than you can say a Bracha.
They were told marriages were destroyed by FB and Twitter.
They were told correctly, then.
I seriously doubt they were told there are people who make incomes off eBay and Amazon. That you need Blogs, FB and Twitter to promote your items and make sales . That you can make money on Blogs, FB and twitter by managing peoples social media pages.
I will ask again, as I asked about your Ebay comment – are you defending use of social media by sellers, such as yourself, or by all people, so that you can make parnassah?
If the former, it’s not something I can answer simply, since I don’t know enough about social media to know if it can be safely used the way you describe.
If you mean the latter, that’s like saying we should defend gambling so that people can make parnassah from casinos.
I heard the statment “We are clicking ourselves into vegetables” , Well People “Clicking” is how I make money.
Maybe they weren’t talking about you. Undoubtedly, many have clicked their way into oblivion. Should the rabbonim ignore this so as not to make you uncomfortable?
but ALOT of people, In fact probably MORE than are “Schmutz addicts” make part of all of their parnassah from the internet
Again, for the umpteenth plus time, THEY DIDN’T ASSER INTERNET FOR PARNASSAH. Why do you keep insisting that they did?
Do you work for any of the organizers?
No
I think you’d be a great asset to any such organization.
I guess not, because I don’t seem to be convincing anyone here. 🙂
@DY when i said you i didnt mean you – i meant that people will not be convinced by a rav who uses the language of kannaus. also this is not about convincing people it is about working with people. as far as the straw man arguements go you had me making recreational use of the internet equal to business uses, saying that i believe everyone should have unfiltered internet (which i don’t) etc.
you had me making recreational use of the internet equal to business uses
You put them in the same sentence; I would have put it in a different universe.
saying that i believe everyone should have unfiltered internet
I never used the word “everyone”. But you are defending it, aren’t you?
JB,
I retract my accusation that you advocated unfiltered internet. I looked back at a different thread, and in your posts, you merely defended your own use of it, based on your own particular case. Other posters defended it on principle, but you didn’t. Please accept my apology. (BTW, if it were me, I wouldn’t discuss it publicly, because the majority of people who have unfiltered internet do not have a legit excuse.)
To Daas Yochid: thank you so much for all your comments! I agree 100%with all you said. Unfortunately, “ZAHAVA’S DAD” IS SO so naive Nd clueless about the dangers and reality of the Internet, that I don’t think any amount of evidence would convince him. My marriage is one of the many victims of this terrible malady. My husband is addicted, he would spend whole nights online, of course on seemingly innocent sites at first-news, info, banking, work, you name it. But when I did some searching of the history after one particularly long stretch of his, what I found shockedme to my core, I could never look at him the same. I begged him to get help, never saying what I found, only saying that he spends too much time on it. He refuses. He claims he’s totally in control. Now he takes his Internet access with him everywhere he goes and to the most inappropriate places… To Shull, to Shiur, to family get-togethers. It has destroyed our life together. And he’s in total denial. I would love to be able to email privately with you as I’m very interested in how you got help and from where. I desperately want my family to be back together the way we were before this calamity took hold of my husband. Again, thank you so much for all you wrote, for all the words of wisdom. May you be given the strength from Hakadosh Baruch Hu to continue in your praiseworthy fight, and may you reap a lot of reward for your Teshuva.
“And you know as well as I do that it (Flatbush Asifa)never would have happened without the CitiField asifa.”
Because it would have been unnecessary. People were thoroughly confused by what was, and wasn’t said, by what was and wasn’t implied at the event and also in advertisements that a follow up became necessary.
In truth, the comment “there are many people who do not have a rav for anything besides for Hilchos Nida.” is the real reason there was ever a need for an asifa. With no Rav, people just meander through life doing whatever it is they do, blissfully unaware that there may be problems with what they are doing.
There should be an Asifa to promote the concept of Asay Licha Rav.
Boobie: There are wonderful organizations out there that do fantastic work. I’d suggest you check out Guard Your Eyes site – spouse support. It’s all anonymous, they do it all L’shem Shamayim, to help out Yidden.
And DY, just because I didn’t second you on ALL YOUR brilliant pieces and responses, doesn’t mean I’m not with you on all accounts. It’s just that I thought it’s better if I keep my (silly) presence away from this most important, serious thread.
Again, I’m totally with you.
“Unfortunately, “ZAHAVA’S DAD” IS SO so naive Nd clueless […] that I don’t think any amount of evidence would convince him. “
Just a lurker for the most part, but I just had to say that although I do think the quote above does apply to one of the participants of this debate, I certainly do not think that the person is ZD.
@ Zahavasdad: May you be given the strength from Hakadosh Baruch Hu to continue in your praiseworthy fight, and may you reap a lot of reward for your Teshuva. 🙂
@Boobie
I am sorry for your troubles, but unfortuantly if it wasnt the internet it would have been something else. I dont mean this to be mean, but people who are happy arent looking for happiness elsewhere.
If someone loves learning and loves the Yeshiva, they wouldmt be looking elsewhere
One can spend time on the internet, One can spend time at the Library, One can spend time hanging with their “buddies”.
I am sure the Library has been more “dangerous” and caused breakups than than internet. The well known DF, did not leave because of the internet, she left because of the Library for example (FYI I am not banning books, Just saying that there is plenty to draw people out besides the internet)
zhavasdad.
i am really sorry, I am in a position to disagree with you.
I for one research products on a daily basies, in fact most of the products are designer textiles. our network is filtered, there is no reason to have access to filthy sites in order to research an item.
If however I or someone else on our team needs access to a site, the site gets whitelisted either temprarily or permantly, whitelisiting takes just a few minutes. no hassle at all.
The rabonim reckognize the fact that we need internet, they know that a lot of people are on teh interenet the entire day, this is the way they make a living, however there is no excuse to have unfiltered internet.
I would like you to give me an example where filtered internet would prevent you from making a living.
BTW, you do nto need access to FB or Twiter in order to post something. we post all the time without access.
To all the IT people that say that they cannot have a filter because A. they need unfiltered access. B. they can always find a way around.
Please note that you can always unblock a site that is blocked. and the idea of a filter (as I heard from a Rav) is not to have fool proof filterezation, rather that you shouldnt have open access all the time, the fact that you know of a way around the filter, doesnt mean that you should not have one in place. its much better to have it i place, since if you do want to go to a site that is unappropiate, you should at least have to work your way around, it shouldnt be a click a away
Zahasdad
BTW, I am a bigger reader than poster, You are providing to many personal details here.
a lot of your posts are based on one or more personal details, mostly sorrounding your work.
I can make a list of information ( I would of course never do that) of snippets that I have picked up reading your posts.
While I maintain “boobie” is a lurker and not some unfortunate spouse whose husband is “addicted to the internet” (a stupid phrase in my opinion), what she (if she really is a she) writes underscores what I wrote. You have an issue with your husband, call your Rav or Rebbetzin dont wring your hands in despair and wonder whether or not to “confront” him.
“I begged him to get help, never saying what I found, only saying that he spends too much time on it. He refuses. He claims he’s totally in control.”
Obviously, he has no desire to spend his time with you, instead he prefers the fantasy world that exists online. Why, is an excellent question to ask yourself, and him.
Zahavasdad,
You are really really wrong about who the Rabbonim have spoken with.
I personally have a website and am an “ebayer”. Yes I make money off the internet. I also am very close to a prominent Rov who speaks with people about the internet.
This Rov has repeatedly made clear that he was never on the internet in his life and therefore has had to speak with others about it.
One time he questioned me quite extensivley about Facebook what it is, why it is important for buissness, and how buisness use it.
Another Rov who is quite proactive with his kehilla about the internet has spoken not just with me (briefly) but with other members of his shul about the internet so he has a firm handle on what is needed for buisness and what is not.
In fact this Rov has actually put considerable amount of time into studying hichos shabbos in regards to ebay,amazon, online madvertisments ect.. so he can ansewer shailos on it.
If you think the Rabbonim are naive about the “net” well in Rabbi Reismans words “you are naive”.
Oh and what first alerted the Rabbonim to the many issues is when there was a meeting several years back between various prominent Rabbonim and after comparing notes between themselves they realized the extent of the problems they were facing.
And yes it would have been much easier for them to not attmept to do something about it but since these Rabbonim have a sense of responsibilty and have shouldered the achrayos of transfering Yiddishkeit to the next dor they have spent years battiling the damage being done.
And if you think the library compares to the internet then you obviously have no idea what the YH is, how the YH works, nor how to battle it.
Fortunatley if you really do want to learn about Kochas HaNefesh and what the YHis you can purchase a copy of Mesillas Yeshorim and study it.
@2scents you are in a position to have a filter on your network there are many people who do not have that luxury.
“I would like you to give me an example where filtered internet would prevent you from making a living.”
Are you serious? I am assuming you have zero IT experience.
I do not understand your comment about facebook and twitter but if you knew anything about internet marketing in todays day and age you would not be making such comments.
i am not sure how your “experience” puts you in a position to disagree with anyone.
@DY apology accepted i wasnt taking anything personal and i think we both want the same thing at the end of the day.
To apushatayid: Just the fact that I should have to defend myself as “real” and not a “lurker”(I’m not even sure what you mean by that!) to you, is really demeaning and pathetic. Why on earth would anyone make up what I wrote? My heart is broken, I shared very painful details of my personal life to make a point. You, my friend, are a sorry, sorry excuse for a Jew. Where’s your sense of Rachmanus, empathy, TRUST that someone might be telling the truth? I truly pity you. For your information, addiction (and yes, a therapist categorized my husband as ‘addicted’) is not a simple matter. And addictive personalities can be happily married and yet fall into temptation a lot easier that the average person would. So your comments show you to be not only lacking in the basic characteristics of a Jew, but also ignorant. Completely ignorant. And FYI, my husband does spend time with me and the kids. It’s when everyone’s asleep that he falls victim to the terrible yetzer hara of the Internet addiction. And FYI again, my husband doesn’t have a Rav. Another bone of contention between us, so none of your so-called advice was in the least helpful. I hope you’re happy knowing you took the honest admission of a wife with a broken heart and turned it into some devious deception that could only be imagined in the ind of someone like you. I honestly pity YOUR spouse,
To ZAHAVAS DAD: once again I must say your posts continue to smack of ignorance especially about Internet and addiction. An addict does not go searching for ‘happiness’ on the Internet. He goes searching for relief, for escape from pain, for distraction. And afterwards they feel horribly guilty and ashamed. You know absolutely nothing on the subject and therefore it’s quite disrespectful to dismiss someone with knowledgable information as if yours trumps theirs. It doesn’t. Better not to comment on issues that you have no knowledge about than to sound ignorant and foolish.
For the record, most of what I posted here was taken straight from the brochure which was intended to be distributed at the CitiField Asifa. None of the stories involved me personally, nor anybody who I know personally.
unfortuantly if it wasnt the internet it would have been something else
In some cases, that’s true, and in some cases it’s not. Even in the cases where it’s true, internet access often makes things worse.
The internet did not create the yetzer hora, but is his powerful and dangerous tool.
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