MUST READ- Real Solutions to the Internet Challenge

Actually where are your facts, I gave you the facts that the top 15 websites were not schmutz (You can argue you dont like some of them, but thats another issue, they are not schmutz)

You are just repeating same statement without anything to back it up.

In facts it was said here 10’s of marriages were destroyed by the internet, what if I said Hundreds of marriages were created by sites like J-Date. Thousands of Jobs were created because of internet sales etc.

(And these are NOT exxagerations, I know ALOT more people who gets their parnossah than marriages that were broken up even if I dont know the reason)

I gave you the facts that the top 15 websites were not schmutz

That’s a very misleading fact. It says nothing about how much time is spent on shmutz, of which there are far more sites. It also doesn’t account for how much damage is caused by even a “small” amount of time spent on shmutz.

You should argue, according to your faulty logic, that abuse is not a big issue because most abusers have at least 15 activities which they do more often than abuse children.

@DaasYochid i am thankful that you finally showed your true colours. you are not engaging in what most people would call a civilized debate and instead are randomly attacking people. I dont have to continue arguing with you because you continue to make my case for me. you have obviously never dealt with otd kids before – otherwise you would know that by and large every thing u said is false. you keep on creating a straw man and attacking it ferociously despite the fact that you are well aware that my position and zahavasdad’s position are not what you say they are. Lastly, contrary to what you believe the gedolim do not actually agree with your position and the biggest proof of that, which you still have not responded to is that they did not allow this pamphlet to be handed out by the asifa.

jbaldy22,

Your position and zahavasdad’s position are not the same.

I am not claiming, nor did ever claim, that the problem begins and ends with the internet (for the umpteenth time). Talk about a straw man.

I don’t know why the brochure wasn’t given out by the asifa, I assume that you do, so please inform.

Rabbi Reisman Shlit”a summed it up IMO at the Flatbush Asifa when he said, this is about keeping good kids good (and his added point that kids is a euphamism for “us” – adults). There is no reason why a good kid should be exposed to something he should not when precautions can be put in place that they are not, therefore take precautions to ensure they are not. Is it foolproof, no, nothing is ever foolproof, someone determined to get his/her fill of things they should not, will always find a way to do so. As Rabbi Reisman stated, we are not talking about protecting “those” type of “kids”, they can go elsewhere to get their fill of things we don’t want them to. But to serve it up on a platter, in our own homes, to good kids who are not really looking for it…..

People lock the door to their house when they are not there (even when they are) despite statistics that show most homes are not burglarized, why is this “lock” any less important. If someone knew that their neighbor c’v was burglarized, even if it was a single home out of thousands in the neighborhood, they would be worried about the locks on the windows and doors. The analogy is obvious. All else is hyperbole that deflects the conversation from where it belongs.

Once all hyperbole (the big bad internet creates problem x and issue y and so on) is removed from the equation, it is a simple discussion. There is a chance that one may be exposed to something they should not. The yetzer hara in this area is a strong one, and he is a wily charachter. Take precautions.

I suppose it is fun to debate hyperbole, but in a serious discussion, it has no place.

ZD,

According to statistics which I read, 10% of the adult population in the US is addicted to shmutz, and double that number admit that they regularly visit those sites. The actual number (considering the fact that many won’t admit it) is unknown.

Sorry it took so long to get the stats; my filter blocks out a certain important keyword from my search.

And it’s worth it.

ZD,

You haven’t addressed the statistics I showed you that many people are addicted to shmutz sites.

And although I didn’t hear R’ Krohn’s speech, there are certainly websites which are not referred to as “adult”, yet certainly are very problematic, YouTube is one of them, and social networking, which might have the #1 ratings, is very dangerous and was rightfully assailed.

Rabbi Krohn singled out YWN and VIN as the sites the worst sites especially the CR.

As far as 10% of the people being addicted to schmutz, I dont know if these stats are true, what is the definition of “addiction” if someone constantly looks at schmutz all day everyday that is a problem.

If someone looks at schmutz once a month are they an “addict”.

If we are so keen on fighting schumtz addiction, why arent we putting the same effort into fighting Alcholism, Gambling, Smoking, Food (There are probably more than 10% of frum people overweight) , Shopping , smoking, Drugs etc

And many of these behaviors are alot worse than schumtz addiction

In case you want to hear and watch the Satmar Rebbe

Look for

Historical Footage Satmar Rebbe Reb Yoel Teitelbaum

ZD,

Do you feel that being overweight or smoking is worse than viewing highly inappropriate material on the web (or anywhere else)?

And just for the record, At the asifa, they did NOT promote filters they promoted banning.

One a side note there was a blogger Haredi and Proud, Many of the more modern bloggers mocked his views. After the asifa the blogger decided to shut down the blog. It was the modern bloggers who were most upset and came to his defense. They may have disagreed with him, but they liked to see his opinion and felt it needed to be presented.

Back to Youtube, yes there are videos that might be innapropriate, but youtube only puts out what you put in. If the Charedi crowd stops uploading videos to youtube, such videos as the Satmar Rebbe, Daf Yomi and other charedi oriented videos will disappear or be posted by people with more anti-charedi videos. I for one will miss those videos.

People claim about the Anti-Charedi bias, the way to fight it is to show stuff like that , It words for Chabad and they have good websites. It can certainly work for Satmar and BMG.

Absolutely wrong. Every fifth word at the asifa was “filters, filters, fiters”. From almost every speaker, the Litvish and the Chasidish.

Watch the video again…..

Yes its worse to be overweight or be a smoker, those things can kill you physically

I guess spiritual destruction doesn’t bother you. What a shame.

You are driving down the highway and there is a big billboard right in front of you with Shmutz, There is no way to avoid looking at it as you cannot take you eyes off the road.

Billboards are not in the middle of the road, they’re off to the side.

I was at the asifa too and I DEFINATLY heard the Skullner Rav and the Rav From Belgium (Diznger ??…Sorry I forgot his name) condem the internet as the Tumah of Egypt and the Chochma of Behamois

… and therefore, since you think they’re too fanatical, we should not object to shmutz?

DY According to Pesach Kron, this website (YWN) needs a Filter and is no better than Schmutz

Do you agree with this statement?

Deadly Attraction

107 Trillion.

Admittedly, the vast majority of those are junk mail, receipts and automatic responses, but there are still plenty of messages left over to keep people busy all day.

Add to that 152 million blogs, 25 billion Twitter messages that are sent out per year, 50 billion notices on Facebook per month, 2 billion videos viewed on YouTube per day, over 5 billion photos already posted on Flickr, another 36 billion pictures that are uploaded to another popular site each year, the over 366 million websites now in existence and millions more that are being added each year. The above information should give you an idea of how many billions of hours are being spent on nonsense or worse by the estimated 2 billion internet users around the globe. It should also bear witness to the terrible addiction which results from connecting to this universe of information.

In one extreme case, a couple in Korea would spend 12 hours a day away from home on the internet. They would run home once a day to feed their three-year-old daughter. She died of dehydration and malnutrition. There have been incidents of people who assaulted and even shot others for posting negative comments or embarrassing photos about them.

One 15-year-old shot his own father after his internet privileges were revoked. The problem of the internet being used by teenagers to attack and ridicule others and the resulting emotional issues has become so alarming that in 2006 the CDC (Center for Disease Control, a federal agency) called a conference to address the crisis.

While all these cases involve non-Jews, it is important to realize that we are playing the same game of Russian roulette as they are. The consequences cannot possibly lag far behind.

It has been documented in the medical world that internet users who are blocked access to the web suffer the same physical withdrawal symptoms as hard-core drug abusers. In one case, students were denied access entirely and 79% reported suffering severe edginess and depression. It would be extremely foolish for anyone to convince themselves that they are above internet addiction.

The Jewish world has suffered its share as well. In one case, several years ago, a man was spending night and day tied to his screen. His wife complained that she could not go on living with a husband like that and he would have to choose between the internet and his family. By then it was too late. He chose the internet.

But the situation does not have to be so extreme. Even those who do not drop out of life entirely find that the internet has them bound up sufficiently to materially interfere with their lives. When a parent sits down to supper with one hand holding the fork and the other his smartphone, from which he cannot unglue his eyes, that parent may be sitting with the family in a technical sense, but the children realize they are technology orphans. Their emotional needs cannot compete with the lure of the web.

This widespread irreverence completely undermines our chinuch. It is has eroded our most basic values and created an atmosphere in which nothing we preach is taken seriously. It is destroying us as a nation of servants of Hashem in a way that nothing we have ever faced before could have done.

Yes, I agree. No one should be reading my intelligent remarks. As my Rebbe, HaRav Shmuel (Kuda) said, it fills your mind with fantasy.. how childish..

The Pesach Krohn video was not a Drasha, it was filmed in the stands at Citifield before the Asifa

In the words of Peseach Krohn anyone who posts here (the comments section) should not get Aliyot, And Should be put in Cherem.

And we should force the bloggers shut down

@DaasYochid and here we go again people are not addicted to the internet or technology – people are addicted to socializing and information and that is what the internet provides. “In one case, students were denied access entirely and 79% reported suffering severe edginess and depression” i saw the same study – it is because they feel shut off from the world – as if they were put in solitary confinement – again not a sign that they are addicted to technology just a sign they are addicted to socializing which is a natural human thing. the word addiction is overused and most people who use it have no idea what they are saying. also the irreverence doesnt come because of the internet it comes because we are all socially connected so things spread much easier. this article misconstrues facts and presupposes its conclusions. there is a case to be made that the internet is a problem – this is not it. this continues the thread of hyperbole that exists throughout this pamphlet.

DaasYochid,

actually if you read some of the articles that come up in a a simple google search you will see much that actually supports my conclusions. the internet has become a way of life for many people – imagine not being able to talk to your wife the whole day, not being able to get directions to where you need to go, not being able to find recipes to make supper, not being able to know whether you are making or losing money etc. people who are separated from the internet feel cut off from the world – and understandably so. the author of this article engages in oversimplifications to prove his point – which seems for this part of the article to say that it is an overall bad thing which must be curbed – in addition it is unclear what percentage of the population actually experiences such symptoms. do some research on the topic, read through the raging debate about it in the psychology field about it – it seems that there is as of now no clear cut evidence that it is in fact an addiction.

@DaasYochid if its not an addiction and what people are really “addicted” to is socializing, business, information and basically life in general that sort of does take the teeth out of the argument – yes people have been wasting time since time existed since time was invented. the internet just provides them with an easier outlet to do so. the solution is to be more careful with time management and be more productive not accuse the internet of being the problem. my issues with the internet pertain to shmiras enayim related issues alone and i resent the attempt to make it into an all consuming boogey man. i could go through this particular piece line by line and show you how the claims do not logically follow. arguing against the usefulness of the internet in my opinion is just plain ridiculous and that is precisely what this piece tries to do. the headline is “deadly attraction” and you still think that the author is not engaging in hyperbole.

arguing against the usefulness of the internet in my opinion is just plain ridiculous and that is precisely what this piece tries to do

It is NOT arguing against the usefulness, but against the relative benefit (except for basic parnassah needs) against the downside.

I find it hard to debate you when you (in my opinion) mischaracterize the opposing argument.

@zahavasdad i am sure there are very few people who smoke for 12 hours a day so that means they arent addicted?

Many yeshivas are against Art Scroll Gemorah because they are New

No, that’s NOT why they’re against it.

He and many others do not like blogs that critize, some critisim is unwarranted but some isnt. Criticism for the sake of critism is bad. But Constructive Critism could be a good thing

The vast majority violate the halachos of lashon hora. But I think you’re right that it’s a major issue with the internet, and one that is actually openly addressed, not obfuscated as you erroneously suggest. See my next post, from the brochure.

And shmutz really is a very big issue, because aside from the fact that it’s more common than you’d like to admit, it’s really, horribly, terribly bad for your neshama, even if only viewed a little bit.