Musical Chairs and Shidduchim

AZ: I forgot, the purpose of this forum is for you to perpetuate the age gap myth. I will make sure not to write anything that explodes that myth.

Now. This may come as a surprise to you (it shouldnt if you would actually read what I wrote) but we actually agree. The way the system is set up today, there ARE to many players for the number of chairs. Here is where we differ. You believe it has to do with the age gap. I believe it is because of the warped system that has evolved in the last 15-20 years. To take your analogy one step further. Everybody wants to play on center court, not some outer side court, therefore all players push and shove their way into the main arena for a chance to play on center court. The problem is, not enough equipment for everyone to play at the same time, so the equipment keeps getting used (and some eventually is claimed and taken home by the players), while some potential players ssit on the sidelines and watch. We should either bring in enough equipment for all players to play at the same time, OR ask some players to play in the outer courts. Under our warped system, where every boy is the best in his yeshiva as long as he precisely fits a specific mold, all such equipment is brought onto the center court. All other equipment that doesnt precisely fir the mold is relegated to the outer courts, if that. All players, naturally want the best equipment and in fact have been indoctrinated that they must only use equipment that comes from a specific mold, so they all flock to center court where that equipment is located.

Since we reject way to much equipment from center court and invite any and all players to center court, we have a glut of players. There is plenty of equipment that nobody wants to use.

It is our warped mentality that has created this situation. Not hashem and the number of males and females he has born each year.

“No one seems to be able to find them.”

Nobody is looking for them. If people would take off their blinders and look around they will find plenty. I see them every day at the 6:30am shachris and the shiur that preceeded it. On the subway to and from work. At mincha in a midtown office. At the late night daf yomi shiur and maariv. Grocery shopping. In a pizza shop or restaurant.

I told you where to look for them. Walk away from your keyboard and start looking.

Pushata yid (who is obviously nisht azoi pushit)

Great ananlogy!

And AZ –

The same people who put together the girls data, should be able to get the same info on the boys

We need also not be super-focused on the “older single guys” either. There are dozens of non “a++ super cool best bocher” bochurim, that are just fine young men, that are quite suitable for their girl counterparts among us.

The problem is, shadchanim (and to some extent parents) think their chils (either gender) is a++ super cool best boy/girl, wether its the case or not. And heaven forbid,someone to suggest anything less than 5-10 years support (or agree to w-o-r-k shortly after marriage) and that shidduch goes down the drain.

Do we have a shidduch crisis? Yes, sort of. Can we fix it? You bet we can!

Aposhutayid: Are all these older boys you’re refering to really interested in getting married?? then what’s taking them so long?? maybe they’re picky about girls’ looks?? maybe they’re fishing too much in the market of young 19-20 year old girls whom appeal more to them??

And, if you can ‘claim’ that you know some of these boys pesonally enough to attest that at least a’few’ of them are not picky at all and are just waiting for a shadchan to call them with a name of a decent older single who’s ready to go out with them; then there is obviously ‘issues’ with these particular boys that are hindering their ability to getting dates with decent girls. Do you suggest that some older single girls should be set up and marry these few boys with real ‘issues’??

AZ, are you maintaining that there is NOT a significant population of older never married guys? Is your position that the “shidduch crisis” is a female-only issue?

I’m not sure how you can miss the significant population of never married older guys. Unless I’m not understanding your position correctly.

Popa bar abba: You didn’t read my post correctly, I stated that the majority of this ‘group’ of older single guys are most probably picky about girls’ looks and this is the major contributing factor as to why they are still around. I additionally stated that a minority of this group are not picky at all and most probably this is due to some ‘issues’ that they have. Of course there are a tiny few in this group that are neither picky nor have any issues, but they are definitely very few of such boys within this group of older single boys.

Ben Torah: There is a minority of the large group of older girls that are around because they were once picky about the type of boy they were looking for, however, the majority of this very large group (about 3-4x larger than the size of group of older boys) are around simply because they are not as appealing/attractive in looks like the other girls who have gotten married – like average looking girls; and the number descrepency forces them to be the unlucky ones who are pushed up to being matched up with the much smaller (3-4x) market of older single picky/issues boys.

AZ:

I don’t have numbers on me, but do you think/know if there are more boys or girls going off/becoming less shomer mitzvos?

I can think of many older frum girls who need spouses (and not many girls who went off/less), but know many boys who would make good husbands, but they may not be “up to par” for the girls (for example, they may not be shomer negiyah, or may not daven with a minyan, or will not learn every day, or may not even keep shabbos).

Any stats there?

And I’m not disagreeing with the age gap. But the problem can also be solved incrementally, by (hypothetically) adding 10% more chairs 5 times, we have gotten 50% of the girls married.

The last 5-6 posts basicly sum it all up. Some simply assume all older guys have issues, and are therefore excluded from the dating pool by default, while others just dont see what everyone else sees. Some exclude guys from the dating pool even when they are younger because of perceived issues such as gasp, the color of his shirt and others because, gasp, when they were 22 realized that sitting in a yeshiva all day was not productive for them and was not helping them grow as yidden in any way, while others might have been eliminated straight up because they wanted to attend college so that they could support their families one day.

AZ: In your last example, the 1000 girls WILL in fact remain without a partner precisely because the 1000 guys who have been labeled as “issues” have been eliminated.

The ribbono shel olam has prepared a shidduch for every male and female born. It is the fault of our society that we chose to eliminate a good number of males (females too, but to a lesser degree) due to our own decisions. If you want to find a shidduch for all your girls going round and round desperately trying to find a chair for their weary feet, bring more chairs into the auditorium. No, the chair may not have been manufactured by Rosh Yeshivas R Us, or by Best Bachur in the Yeshiva Inc, but they do come from solidly reliable manufacturers such as Lomdei Torah, Baale Middos and Yirah Shmayim LLC or Real Masmid (who is only second best in the chabura)Inc. For some reason, all the girls have been taught and all shadchanim have perpetuated the myth, that one may only purchase chairs from Rosh Yeshivas R Us and Best Bachur In the Yeshiva Inc., and while many girls manage to purchase chairs from their choice manufacturer, the supply is limited and while these choice chairs are constantly in production, supply is limited AND these girls who are going in circles suddenly find more girls added to the circle making hakafos with them and the cycle repeats itself, year after year after year. The myth of the exclusive manufacturer is perpetuated again, and again and again. Some girls grow weary of going in circles and move onto the other manufacturers, while others just go round and round and round. They do this despite seeing and hearing from their friends that the “other” manufcturers produce high quality furniture, so high quality, that many claim better than their original choices. However, these girls insist that going in circles waiting for that perfect chair, because someone drilled it into her head that these manufacturers are exclusives, all other poor quality. they end up going round and round, growing older and more tired. My proposed solution, is to explode the myth of the exclusive manufacturer.

Lomed. Please start with reading comprehension.

I said nothing about the “pyschological reality” of girls, or boys. I was speaking about the reality that has become “the system”. I am taking issue with the system, not those who try to conform to the system.

“and the obvious reason we should attribute for the very high number of these girls being leftover in parallel to the much smaller pool of corresponding older boys, is naturally the scientific reason of the age gap factor”

Funny how science seems to ignore the ribbono shel olam once again. I guess that those who subscribe to this science must believe that when these girls were born, no Bas Kol was heard “Bas Ploni LiPloni”, they were simply skipped over, for whatever reason. Perhaps these scientists will still find the reason the Bas Kol ignored these girls.

Lomed. Nobody disagrees with your last post. The disagreement is with the identification of the problem and how to fix it.