Music that's supposedly a capella

AARGH!

aka = also known as – used when listing someone’s alias(es).

Example: Joseph, aka [insert all of Joseph’s other names here]

aka pella – also known as wonder?

a capella = in the style of the chapel – vocal music (yes, singing is music) without instrumental accompaniment

supposiveley? What’s (note the apostrophe) that? The word you are looking for is supposedly.

If you want to do it properly then it’s no music whatsoever, acapella or otherwise. Just voices singing is no better than just voices going ‘wa-wa’, making guitar noises and beat-boxing. Believe me, sefira and the 3 weeks are pretty much the hardest times of the year for me as I eat, drink and breathe music but I get through them without any music because that’s what you gotta do.

Oh yeah, and the word is “supposedly”. Just so next time you try to sound condescending you do it correctly.

I think you are all being motzi a bit of laaz. They claim it is all made with their mouths.

You can say it sounds so much like music that you don’t like to listen to it, but you should not claim that it is really music.

(The pun was not intended, but it works.)

DY: As far as I know only the Shevet HaLeivi and R’ Shternbuch hold that. R’ Moshe and the Tzitz Eliezer were Mechalek (but they held it was Assur anyway for a different reason).

Ask your LOR regarding A Capella music.

I agree with PBA, that it’s motzi laaz to say it has “real music” unless you know for sure that it is.

Perhaps as a way to be dan liKaf Zechus, it should be understood that music can be dramatically changed from initial recording to output. If you compare older concerts to the studio recordings of the same song, you can hear a remarkable difference between them, and that’s with instruments.

So just because it sounds “music-like” does not mean that they cheated and used real instruments. Given the above, I would think it’s certainly computer manipulation.

That wasn’t during sefirah.

I don’t see what that has to do with my point.

The Wolf

I don’t see what that has to do with my point.

It doesn’t really. I was being silly. I agree with your point and was impressed enough to make a silly response.

We cannot forbid something which chazal and the shulchan aruch permitted, such as, acapella during s’firah. Reb Moshe’s heter for music during the rest of the year may even apply during s’fira, using the same reasoning. If you need to feel uncomfortable during s’firah, try sleeping on a bed of nails.

I suffer from music starvation during sefirah. Musiclike music helps.

DY: The Shevet HaLeivi’s Shittah is that anything made to sound good inherently counts as not a capella.

Rav Moshe’s music T’shuvah is OC 1:167, I believe. But he does say in there that Sefira is Assur even a capella, though the Minhag to me Meikel on a capella kinda makes sense based on him (emphasis on the kinda).

DY: The Shevet HaLeivi’s Shittah is that anything made to sound good inherently counts as not a capella.

That’s not what I’m referring to; I’m referring to something I heard from R’ Belsky, that when vocals are digitally manipulated so that they no longer sound like something which can be produced by a person, they are no longer considered vocals, it’s considered instrumental.

I think I saw it on the ‘net at one point as well.

If the end result is the exact sound sound of an instrument then it is the same thing. Reb Moshe talks about singing not about instrumental music produced by other means.

I think people are applying the Kashrus mentality to music.

Actually, Rav Belsky objects to it on those grounds as well:

“Cherrybim has claimed before that R’ Moshe was mattir’

I didn’t say Rav Moshe was matir. Rav Moshe holds that listening to music, outside of a mitzvah event, is forbidden all the time due to availus for the bais ha’mikdash. I indicated that Rav Moshe’s reason to permit music the rest of the year to people who need it for psychological reasons, such as, to calm their nerves, could perhaps also be applied to those who need it during s’firah for psychological reasons.

R’ Belsky’s teshuva was posted in the CR already:

http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/sefira-music/page/2#post-86593

Q: A cappella albums – singing without instrumental accompaniment – are becoming more and more common, especially during The Three Weeks and Sefirah when we are noheig not to listen to music. Is it halachically permissible to listen to a cappella music during these times of the year?

A Cappella

There are basically three types of a cappella.

One is where the musical sounds originate from human voices but the natural properties are digitally modified with computer software to attain quality of sounds that are not humanly possible, thus making it sound more like regular music. Such a cappella is halachically not viewed as being any different from regular music.

There are other forms of a cappella which sound very similar to regular music, although no digital modification is done to the voices. These types of a cappella should also not be listened to during Sefirah and The Three Weeks, as will be explained shortly.

The third type of a cappella is where regular songs are sung by an individual or choir. There is nothing halachically objectionable about listening to such a cappella during Sefirah and The Three Weeks.

To properly understand this topic, it would be helpful to briefly relate some technical information provided by experts in the music industry as to how a cappella music is created.

Digitally Modified A Cappella

Every sound is made up of many different sound waves, each at there own frequency. The individual frequencies and the velocity of each sound wave give each sound its unique tonal properties.

A second modification made is to the pitch of the notes. A bass guitar can play notes almost twice as low (two octaves lower) as a human voice can go. Therefore, in order to simulate the bass notes, some album producers lower the pitch of the notes beyond the capabilities of the human voice. This process of transposing the notes down an octave or more would also change the status of these notes from vocals to computer-generated sounds, and would be prohibited during Sefirah and The Three Weeks.

A third modification made is to the timing of the notes. The rhythmic structure of all music can be charted on a grid. The most common breakdown would be charted in eights. That means that each rhythmic hit would take place at exactly one interval of eights. It is not humanly possible for a musician to play 100% on the grid. This slight imperfection is what gives live music its human feel, as opposed to machine music which sounds much more rigid. It is even harder for a person to create a rhythm with his mouth, and keep it perfectly on grid. Many albums take the rhythmic parts and digitally place them exactly where they belong on the grid. This process is called quantization. Though this does not change the sound of the voice, when used in combination with any of the above processes it would give the sounds more of a status of music.

Unmodified A Cappella

If so, where does the entire issue of not listening to live or recorded music during Sefirah and The Three Weeks come from?

It appears that although there was no specific minhag not to listen to music, there was a minhag to abstain from things that bring about an excessive amount of enjoyment. Furthermore, technically, due to the churban Beis Hamikdosh, music should be forbidden all year round. However, there are certain kulos which we rely upon. It is during Sefirah and The Three Weeks that we have accepted upon ourselves not to rely on these kulos and practice aveilus in this regard. Music has this power more than most things that people do for enjoyment. Music can take someone out of this world, so to speak, and make him forget, at least temporarily, all his worries and problems. Thus, whether the music is live or recorded, it produces this effect, which is contrary to the minhag. A cappella that sounds very similar to music is also included in this minhag and should not be listened to.

Some rabbonim feel that once it sounds like music and is being played from an electronic device, that, too, renders it a musical device which is forbidden.

Choirs

A cappella music that was not modified at all, and sounds like a group of people singing, would be permissible.

It is interesting to note that the word a cappella literally means, a – in the style of, capella – a chapel. In a chapel, they have only a choir singing with no musical instruments (other than a pipe organ which blends together very well with the voices). The harmony of the choir is meant to produce the musical affect. This is where the concept of a cappella stems from.

I’m curious. Has an Avel during shiva ever inquired of his LOR if he is permitted to listen to acapella music?

O.C. 1-166; 2,-95; Y.D. 2-137

ROB:

You think you’re smarter than R’ Moshe.

On that other thread, you were soundly refuted.

O.C. 1-166; 2,-95; Y.D. 2-137

All three of those deal with the issur of music. None of them mention anything about a heter to calm one’s nerves.

Maybe it really is muttar; I don’t know, but you keep on saying that R’ Moshe says this heter, but haven’t been able to cite it.

daas yochid; you did not answer my question. Can you show me a daas hageonim or a rishon who mentions music as a matter of issur in the sefirah? And concerning R”Moshe zz;l,do you use liquid soap on shabbos? see what R’moshe says about this.

daasyochid: all sam2 said (in another thread) that the first mention of such an issur was (maybe) by the pri megodim ,who lived appx 200 years ago. And I accepted that the additional issur of LIVE music (concerts, simchas) may be acceptable. That alone is a big addition to the original takonoh. Now, you and others want to add ANY music to this takonoh- an exceptional chumrah that has no basis in the original takonoh.

I venture that even R’moshe zz;l does not find a basis for this in the original takonoh. As far as liquid soap, it was an illustration that one does not have to be bound by R’Moshe’s chumros because he says that liquid soap on sabbos iis ossur.

DY: I believe the Beis Yosef says that to calm nerves is okay. Check him out in 560. In general, I think the assumption is that we are Meikil during Sefirah on those cases in which the earlier Poskim were Meikel all year round (I think the Shearim Metzuyanim Behalachah on the Kitzur mentions this but I don’t remember for sure). Also, I think the Nitei Gavriel quotes sources that there is a difference between recorded and live music, but I do agree that it is quite a minority opinion. (Then again, he also brings down the even more minority opinion that slow music, which would not inspire dancing, is Muttar Lechatchilah and he brings that down as the normative P’sak. Then again, he’s a Chassidish Posek. Maybe that is normative custom in Chassidic circles and I just don’t know about it; I should probably ask someone about that.)

We spoke to a Rov about this, not as a shailah, but just to hear more about the inyan. I personally do not listen to music in the car during Sefirah, and am perfectly content with the news and talk show stations. The rov I spoke to said that if listening to music helps to keep a driver calm and therefore able to drive more safely than NOT listening to it, there can be a heter. I would not do it even with the heter, if I had someone else in my car and I knew they don’t listen to music (yeah, I know it’s MY car, I’m doing them a tovah to drive them around, etc. etc., but I wouldn’t want to make someone else uncomfortable).

Bottom line – always ask your own Rov for guidance.