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It’s a bit tone deaf
In October it would have been insensitive unless there was a lot of Tehillim being said. At this point not anymore. Are there no celebrations being held in Israel? No (secular) Demonstrations? Is this a party or a concert for the sake of gorging yourself or a fundraiser to support Torah which in turn supports the world? Is there ANY Jewish group that has completely stopped making events?
If you personally are not listening to music these days because of the war in Eretz Yisroel then maybe you should not have attended. But if you are you have no business complaining about this event
Perhaps while we are at it someone can explain the why a rally to honor the BMG lomdei Torah needs to be a half music concert. Is it because otherwise no one would show? If so that is the answer to the op
I would venture to say if the gedolim involved said to go ahead with it its obviously not a problem. Im not sure if the questioners questioning them or just wants to know the explanation behind their decision. I am curious to know however, if there was any mention of the current situation and to what degree as I would assume it was not ignored for as the questioner asks, Eretz Yisrael is b’eis tzarah
They didn’t forget their loving brethren in Israel and even prayed for them tehillim during the schedule of the entire
night. Could you just imagine the power of their prayers of 25,000 people all together praying for their loving brethren suffering in Israel and asking Hashem to please send mashiach already bkarov?This is very powerful prayers done all together at the same time but the truth is that Hashem is at this very moment waiting for BOTH serious teshuva AND Achdus together as one loving nation versus this event was a great Achdus together but it was not the entire klal yisroel and it was not a gathering for serious teshuva, kinnus and tannis like Mordechai and Esther did in the story of Purim and that’s really what Hashem is waiting from his loving children klal yisroel so Hashem can send mashiach already bkarov.
Do you have the same question about the chasunas and bar mitavas that have dancing? An event that is for chizzuk hatorah where the dancing and singing is to give cavod to the torah certainly takes priority over the “simchas” above, whose primary purpose is to celebratory in nature, although those are a mitzvah as well. I’m also stam curious if you walk around all day with a “partzuf tisha b’av” or if you reserve these types of crticism for the lomdei torah only. I’ll end off with quoting the Rambam in הל׳ תענית פ״ה הי״ד who famously writes as an exception to the issur of singing music while drinking wine:
וכן גזרו שלא לנגן בכלי שיר. וכל מיני זמר וכל משמיעי קול של שיר אסור לשמח בהן ואסור לשמען מפני החרבן. ואפלו שירה בפה על היין אסורה שנאמר (ישעיה כד ט) “בשיר לא ישתו יין”. וכבר נהגו כל ישראל לומר דברי תשבחות או שיר של הודאות לאל וכיוצא בהן על היין
The implication of the Rambam is that songs of praise to Hashem and the like were not included in the issur of singing on yayin. This is because, as is evident from the sugya in gittin .ז, the issur is because one shouldn’t have too much simcha after the galus and churban, but songs of praise and thanks and of a spiritual nature are viewed as an avodah and not as stam “simcha”, and as such are not forbidden. If so, col shecein v’col shecein when we’re not dealing with an actual issur but rather a sensitivity, that singing and dancing of that nature is not a contradiction to aveilus.Amazing .. someone saying it the way it is !!!
Gadolhadorah,
Oh wait lakewhut posted this! (I sort of expected better)
There was a chasuna with a 70 piece band in Philadelphia?
Surely you mean the concert with Benny Friedman and Avraham Fried, but I don’t think that was in Philadelphia
Oh you’re talking about the Aderei Torah event? I think celebrating Torah? The ones that the Lakewood Roshei Yeshivas attended along with other gedolim especially from Eretz Yisrael?
Wow
Suffice to say I’m not envious of the schar you’re going to receive with your 17 words
More manufactured rage; a symptom of a generation devoid of actual feelings, trying to imagine what a feeling person would feel.
Life is going on as usual in EY as well, as it should be. Let HKBH take care of business.
Dear Lakewhut,
So far, nobody has commented on this discussion
that you started, probably because your topic is too
vague, and most people do not really understand
what you are trying to say. You must be more specific.As for me, I have not listened to one minute of music
over the past 250 days, because of the great suffering
of our people in our holy land.I am not only talking about the hostages.
I am also talking about the many soldiers who were
recently killed, producing more that 200 new widows
and hundreds of new orphans. Many of the recently
killed soldiers were religious Jews, who observed
Shabbat and prayed every day with an Orthodox minyan.Since many of the recently killed soldiers were in
their 20s and 30s, many of them had parents who
are still alive. Their suffering is beyond all measure.In addition to the dead soldiers, many have been
injured, some of them with permanent injuries.Children are afraid, and the parnasah of many thousands
has been disrupted, and many have fled their homes.Even after all this, the fighting is far-from-finished,
and almost the entire world is united against Israel.The very-small inconvenience that I have suffered
from 250 days without music is NOTHING compared
to the true sufferings and difficult problems of
our brothers and sisters in our holy land.The soldiers in Eretz HaKodesh are not only fighting
for Eretz HaKodesh; they are fighting for ALL JEWS,
including those who study Torah full-time in Lakewood,
because if they would ever be defeated (G*D FORBID),
ALL JEWS, including those who study Torah full-time
in Lakewood, would find themselves in very great
troubles and very great dangers. We are all connected,
because all Jews are one body [Guf Echad].Sincerely,
SQUARE_ROOT“Dear Lakewhut,
So far, nobody has commented on this discussion
that you started,“Square root,
Blame the mods, people replied but the mods have lives and this is probably their 9-5
This wasn’t a concert. This was a gathering of Kidush Shem Shomayim.
Nobody spent $200 & 6 hours of their time for the music. They came to give honor to the Torah & those that toil in it.
Leitzonus achas doche meiah tochochos!
There are bitter people out there who don’t stop themselves from putting down the beautiful parts of a Torah life.Just like we have music by a hachnosas sefer Torah, there’s music to honor the living sifrei torah.
It’s only in their zechus that we’ll bezras Hashem overcome our enemies around the world.
Unbelievable.
The Gedolay Yisroel with tens of thousands of Choshuve Yungeleit sang and danced lekvod hatorah and some people think that they are frummer than them and feel more pain for Klal Yisrael than them.
@lakewutt – I understand and in many ways agree with your sentiment – but it is an unfortunate fact that many in the US, and not only in the Yeshiva Velt, see Israel as something far away with minimal impact on them. The bigger issue in my view is what @pekak said about “life going on as usual in E”Y” – for most Israelis, it most certainly is NOT. I have heard from relatives in Chareidi Yeshivos in Yerushalayim that they don’t really feel the war – but that is a small subgroup of people in Israel. It is the group in Israel that is most closely connected to the Lakewood institutions that put on the event in Philadelphia – so perhaps that is why not much consideration was given to what’s going on in Israel.
an Israeli Yid
It’s very simple, the event is to raise money, אם אין קמח אין תורה
No music, no event (or a tiny event in a bais medrash in Lakewood that may raise 1% of the funds needed)Having just watched a video showing a concert recently held for IDF soldiers and reservists who were on a break from the fighting in Gaza for the purpose of providing chizuk and escape from the stress of war, I doubt very much that an asifah held to provide kavod and chizuk for lomdei torah in Lakewood (or anywhere else for that matter) would be viewed as “tone deaf”. Despite the horror of Simchas Torah and the continuing inhumanity of hostages held in Gaza, Israelis are trying to move on with their daily lives while providing as much support and comfort as humanly possible to the victims, hostages and their families.
One of our favorite pastimes is to choose something with vague or no clear parameters & berate people for “going too far” (in our expert opinion).
You had a 7 piece band for your child’s chasuna? That’s totally insensitive. There’s a war going on, a 6 piece band would’ve been more appropriate in the current Matzav & that music the band played, the tempo was a little too fast considering what’s going on in E’Y.
My favorite from a women asking how we can dare eat “Artisanal” bread during the 9 days. Perhaps she should ask every Tanna & Amorah how they dared to eat artisanal bread during the 9 days.
As the saying goes, “Every Yid frummer than me is Meshuga & every Yid less Frum than me is a Goy.”
p.s. Do you think during WWII Yidden in America knowing family in Europe was lost or in dire straits didn’t still celebrate weddings & Bar Mitzvahs with music, dancing & fancy meals?In addition Mr. Lakewhut, the music wasn’t running for hours, the majority of the event was the Derashos.
In the coffee room you’re anonymous, in shomayim your name is well known. How will you deal with knocking publicly 25000 lomdei Torah which includes most of the senior Roshei Yeshiva & poskim of our time? Just to let lout a little steam & uncalled for frustration on YWN? This is nuts!Next time you don’t agree with something, keep it to yourself rather than publicly being mevazeh other Yidden while hiding behind your screen name.
You need to now ask mechilah from all the people you put down. So do so right here in this thread & be mekabel not to repeat your foolish behavior.
Frankly who cares, this was a meaningless dog and pony show for BMG, nothing more
I’ve been in a number of yeshivish shuls and events that said Tehilim in last several months. It is moving except a little funny that they would not acknowledge the country and the army they are davening for. This is, lehavdil, what I heard from Jews in Kyiv that Soviets had memorials at place where Jews were killed by Nazis with signs “Soviet citizens were killed here”.
@Kuvult
your last thought is a scary one. During the holocaust the same thing happened in the USA. Not only that but its reported by Gisee Flieshman HYD from R weissmendl ZL group that she went to collect money and warn the jews of Hungary, just across the Slovakian border. They were partying and laughing at her living in the most lavish mansions and wearing fancy furs. The only limud zechus I’d say is, during the holocuast, it was a constant continous expansion of murdering more and more jews every day. It wasn’t just about an existimng group of jews. It was also very large in scale. Of course even on jew is too large. But if you take the mass destruction that occured continuously daily during the holocuast its very differet than this war.Another way to say this is, I think we all know someone who is suffering endlessly with yena machala in the hospital. I remember when my moth a’h was terminally ill with it and in enormous pain in the hospital. I skipped every simcha and was appalled by how people can just dance and live normal loves while my mother is almost in the olim haemes and yelling in pain. Now we should feel like this about every jew. But is that what hashem wants? Whats the balance? I’d say definitely if it were a holocaust then no but when yes???
No one should be sleeping on a pillow or soft mattress while Israel is at war. A wooden bed is the most anyone should use.
“this was a meaningless dog and pony show for BMG…”
It was obviously very meaningful, exciting and rewarding for the 25,000 who attended.
Perhaps go to the circus if you want to see a real dog and pony show.
This is the definition of a dog and pony show:
“Dog and pony show” is a colloquial term which has come to mean a highly promoted, often over-staged performance, presentation, or event.Basically this just an overhyped fundraiser, so big deal.
Ujm,
That’s a very Meikel position to take. I sleep on a bed of nails with a large gong next to my head that rings every 15 minutes.
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