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…and the Torah obviously has no problem focusing on a particular aspect of Judaism for one day a year! Kibbud Am IS Jewish.
Volvie, did you know that when Reuven gave the dudaim flowers to his mother Leah, it was on Mother’s Day?
Oh, I forgot, it was before Matan Torah.
Yom Kippur is assigned by the Torah. Kibud Av V’Eim is mandated by the Torah. “Mother’s Day” is assigned by some drunks in Congress, before heading to the bar or their next KKK meeting.
Again, whether a congressman is drunk or a KKK member doesn’t matter one way or the other. The idea stands (or falls) on its own merit, not the character of the person who proposed it.
The Wolf
Once we’re nitpicking, you guys do realize that aside from the purpose of Groundhog Day (determining the weather based on whether an animal sees its shadow) would seem to be a clear issur d’oraysah, it also happens to mark an obscure, but nontheless real, religious holiday.
More substantively, Volvie, obviously there’s a difference between observing negative a commandment more scrupulously on Do Not Steal Day than focusing on your mother on Mother’s Day. There is a National Day of Prayer, would it be inapporpriate for me to express my hakaras hatov on that day to Hashem for enabling me to live somewhere where I can freely practice my religion (honestly, I’d never considered doing it, but I can’t see what would be wrong with it)?
The Torah gives us 365 (okay 354) “Mother’s Days.” To have just one, is to discard the rest. The one day a year for this is not assigned by the Torah.
Once we’re nitpicking, you guys do realize that aside from the purpose of Groundhog Day (determining the weather based on whether an animal sees its shadow) would seem to be a clear issur d’oraysah,
Only if you take it seriously. Do you know anyone who does?
it also happens to mark an obscure, but nontheless real, religious holiday.
Cite, please.
The Wolf
To have just one, is to discard the rest.
Says who?
I fail to see why you can’t respect your parents every day AND have a special day set aside for it.
The Wolf
The Torah gives us 354 days of teshuva, not *just* Yom Kippur.
Again, whether a congressman is drunk or a KKK member doesn’t matter one way or the other. The idea stands (or falls) on its own merit, not the character of the person who proposed it.
So what’s wrong with flying the swastika from your rooftop? Is there anything wrong with the “idea” or “merit” of flying a swastika if it doesn’t stand or fall over the characters of those who proposed it as the Nazi flag? (And it has a history preceding the Nazi’s.)
The Torah gives us 354 days of teshuva, not *just* Yom Kippur.
The Torah gives us 354 days of teshuva, not *just* Yom Kippur. The Torah gives us one special day of teshuva – Yom Kippur. The Torah gives us 354 days of Kibud Av V’Eim, not *just* “Mother’s Day”. The Torah does *not* give us one special day of Kibud Av V’Eim.
Wolf,
February 2nd is Candlemas. I suspect describing or linking to information about it would violate any number of this site’s policies, so out of respect for them, I will not.
So what’s wrong with flying the swastika from your rooftop? Is there anything wrong with the “idea” or “merit” of flying a swastika if it doesn’t stand or fall over the characters of those who proposed it as the Nazi flag? (And it has a history preceding the Nazi’s.)
C’mon… don’t tell me you’re actually comparing observing Mother’s Day to flying a swastika?!
In any event, the difference is this: when people see a Swastika, the first thing they think of (99.99999% of the time) is “Nazis.” When people observe Mother’s Day, they aren’t thinking of the KKK.
The Wolf
February 2nd is Candlemas
Interesting. I did not know that. Ignorance fought. Thank you.
The Wolf
Wolf – When (most) people remember Mother’s Day, they consciously or subconsciously think — ah, here is the one day a year I gotta respect ‘ole Mom.
Kibud Av V’Eim is a discarded joke by the nochrim.
Volvie,
The Swastika point is ridiculous. Swastika’s are bad because they suggest the person flying them is a Nazi and, even if the person is not, the cause negative associations for other people. If there is a single person on this earth who is offended by Mother’s Day due to it’s (supposed) Klan origins, or who even thinks about the Klan when it’s mentioned you’d have a point. Neither is true.
Wolf – When (most) people remember Mother’s Day, they consciously or subconsciously think — ah, here is the one day a year I gotta respect ‘ole Mom.
So what? That’s doesn’t mean that they actually ignore their mother’s the other 364, no more than you ignore teshuva the other days of the year.
The Wolf
“So what”?!
Herein lies our differences.
Volvie,
Have you ever met anyone (Jewish or not) who thinks that way? Assuming they ignore their mother 364 days a year, why would the existence of a holiday in a country where such things are not compulsary make them think that?
“That’s doesn’t mean that they actually ignore their mother’s the other 364”
These people’s mother’s would probably be lucky if they did ignore them the other 364 days. Otherwise they need to brace themselves.
Kibud Av V’Eim is a discarded joke by the nochrim.
How on earth do you know that?? That’s one of the most ridiculous things I’ve heard on these boards yet.
Obviously there are those people who are jerks and disrespect their parents, but to make an idiotic statement like that is ridiculous… as if “nochrim” were some monolithic group that has one attitude about parents.
The Wolf
“Assuming they ignore their mother 364 days a year, why would the existence of a holiday in a country where such things are not compulsary make them think that?”
It may give them that excuse the other 364 days. Hey mom, you have your day — and it ain’t today.
But this is a side point. My point isn’t whether it is appropo or not for gentiles. My point is about us Jews.
I find it very interesting that Volvie, who probably, at most, knows no more than fifty non-Jews personally, is capable of making the blanket statement that non-Jews, as a rule, disrespect their mothers 364 days a year.
This, especially, since the two primary examples of Kibbud Av that we are given are from non-Jews: Eisav* and Dama ben Nesinah.
The Wolf
(* Yes, I know Eisav’s actual status is a bit murkier than that — but for all practical purposes, he lived his life as a non-Jew)
“It may give them that excuse the other 364 days. Hey mom, you have your day — and it ain’t today.”
Again have you ever met anyone you thought felt that way? I work with non-Jews, some of whom are not particularly nice to their mothers (some of whom are), I have never gotten the sense that any of them justified their attitudes based on the existence of Mother’s Day
I also work with non-Jews, and know more than 50. Anyone who thinks there is respect for parent’s in secular society is deluding themselves.
That’s really not the question though. You’re claiming Mother’s Day is the cause of that lack of respect. I’m saying that’s facially ridiculous. If you can tell me that any of the >50 people you know have ever given you the sense they weren’t being nice to their mother because they were saving it all for Mother’s Day, I’ll tell you we can agree to disagree on this. I’d also be shocked.
I’m not conducting any sociological studies and don’t really care to analyze why the lack of parental respect exists in society. Nor is that my point.
My point is about us Yidden. We have a Torah. Our Torah and Chazal tells us when our holidays are. Mother’s Day isn’t one of them. Yom Kippur is.
Kibud Av V’Eim is our motto.
Volvie, the point is that the Torah CLEARLY does not mind stressing one aspect of Judaism on a particular day. Its a message that its great to work on one special mitzvah on a specific day so long as you are not transgressing another one.
Schools have “lashon hara free” hours all the time for their students – a time where they try extra hard to be lashon hara free. Now, there is no hour mandated by the Torah right? So is that the same as mother’s day?
I’m not conducting any sociological studies and don’t really care to analyze why the lack of parental respect exists in society. Nor is that my point.
Yes it is. *You* are the one who asserted that Mother’s Day is an excuse to “kick your mother to the curb” on the other days of the year.
The Wolf
“I’m not conducting any sociological studies and don’t really care to analyze why the lack of parental respect exists in society.”
No you’re not doing that and you don’t care. You just assumed you knew the answer. Obviously, if Mother’s Day actually was a cause of shirking off Kibbud Am, you would have a point. My point is it’s not and as such there really is at a minimum no reason to oppose observing it.
SJS – The point of Mother’s Day — as defined by those who instituted it and supported it — was not to grow from 1 Mother’s Day a year to 365 Mother’s Day a year.
The point of “lashon hara free” hours is to go grow from “lashon hara free hours” to “lashon hara free lives.”
Actually, I’ve often found that in school kids ridiculed lashon hara hours and didn’t gain a thing from them other than to choose “4-5 am” so they would technically be LH free.
Mother’s Day may remind people who aren’t so makpid on Kibbud Am that its important to respect your parents. It may be a stepping stone. Don’t be so quick to dismiss it. If nothing else, it means a person is striving for Kibbud Am once a year, rather than never right?
SJS – I’m telling you the intentions (and I’m sure it helps for many if not all) and you’re telling me the results of some.
Volvie,
It seems obvious to me that one of the purposes of Mother’s Day is to encorage people to put more thought into what their mother does for them the rest of the year. This is exactly analogous to a Lashon Harah free hour.
Volvie, are you Jewish Philosopher?
Look at how different we Yidden are from the nochrim!
For them, Mother’s Day is an excuse to kick their mothers to the curb on the 364 other days.
For us, Mother’s Day is an excuse to kick our mothers to the curb for only one day – namely Mother’s Day itself.
Mi K’amcha Yisroel! This should go in the “Why Yidden are the Best” thread.
Nothing of the sort. It’s a get off the rest of the year scot-free card. And I mean in practice not in theory.
And please find me one Godol who is verifiably on the record in support of “Mother’s Day”. Then I’ll find you 25 or more who support loshon hora free hours.
LOL @ squeak
SJS – Nope.
please find me one Godol who is verifiably on the record in support of “Mother’s Day”.
And find me one Godol who is verifiably on the record in support of posting in the coffeeroom. Or using a camera. Or writing fiction. Or painting.
IOW, the lack of a gadol being “verifiably on the record” for something doesn’t mean that that something is a bad idea.
The Wolf
“Nothing of the sort. It’s a get off the rest of the year scot-free card. And I mean in practice not in theory.”
Ok so for Lashon Hara Free hours, the theory is all that matters and the practice (even where personal experience says the practice exists) does not matter. For Mother’s Day, your insistance that in practice it means something you still won’t say if you’ve ever actually observed is important?
Reb volvie:
Your extensive knowledge and bekies give off the impression of you being a grate Talmud chachom and I hope that many readers will use what you say to teach them the true yiddisheh way of thinking.
May you continue to enlighten all of us with your deep and Torahdikeh explanations of timely issues.
Sincerely yours: Rabbi A. Reiets
Rabbi Reiets,
In what way is “Mother’s Day” a foreign idea that “contradicts what we stand for?” Please elaborate.
The Wolf
Rav Reiets,
I came into this thread relatively late, but I am one of the people it seems you are suggesting c”v Hashem is being defended from on this thread. If there was any sort of Torah expressed on this thread beyond a blanket condemnation of non-jews and their motives, and a conversation around my own correction of a blatent misrepresentation of what the word Apikores means, I missed it. Please let me know what I am missing. Thanks
Volvie, one the biggest mitzvos today is to buy a Mother’s Day card since when do so; you are supporting Torah in a very remarkable way.
It is well known that Artscroll Publishers are a major factor in the growth of Torah to the English speaking world and gives parnossa to countless talmedei chachomim on their staff.
A major benefactor and sponsor of Artscroll is the Sapirstein family.
American Greetings was founded in 1906 by Jacob Sapirstein and has been run by members of the family since then. Irving I. Stone, Sapirstein’s oldest son, was succeeded as CEO by his son-in-law Morry Weiss in 1987, and grandchildren Zev and Jeffrey in 2003.
In addition, the Stone and Weiss famalies give huge amounts to other tzedaka causes.
I came up with ZERO when googling “Rabbi A. Reiets”…very strange.
I remember hearing of Rabbi reiets I think he is from Israel I vaguely remember that he gives lectures or something
fregnisht – You mean Rabbi Jonathan Rietti?
cherrybim – no i don’t.
wolfishmusings,
as far as your respense to me a few days ago, I agree with you and I was excluding them I was just trying to bring out a point that you should celebrate things on their specific days even if they are expected to be done everyday. Im sorry maybe my words weren’t clear.
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