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nishtdanegesheft
The svara is pashut. Once you don’t believe a mitzvah is min hashumayim down the road it snow balls into the whole torah .This we see and saw by individuals and movements.. like reform, conservative etc. That’s the svara , I think, why the gemorrah Sanhedrin paskens ‘kol huoimar afilu ois achas eyuno mi hashomayim is kofer bechol hatorah. Because today you deny just an ois , tomorrow a whole psarshe and story ,like the OO fellas….
By the way, if they don’t believe that the torah is divine , so why bother with it a all. Just make your own set of laws or just follow the dina d’malchusay . Now you wont be bothered with all these ‘ancient back ward’ laws
Coffee addict is right. Their approach to halachah is agenda driven. At some point, when there is enough driving them (pardon the pun) towards chillul Shabbos, they will do that, just as conservative, which was supposedly halakhic, did.
True, other things may fall first, but it’s just a matter of time.
Hopefully, they’ll straighten themselves out and it won’t come to that, but that’s how it’s currently trending.
nisht: Removing a ventilator? Maybe. Removing a feeding tube? There is no way that that can be called Retzichah.
Again, I’m agreeing that lots of people can be Over and even Issurim Chamurim when they deny/don’t know Halachah. But being mistaken about Halachah is different than doing evil things. (Especially when there are some, albeit a tiny number, of Halachic authorities who held that brain death is considered death.)
Why can’t that be called retzichah?
Conservative and Reform are not dying because of condemnation by Rabbanim, they are dying because of demographic trends after the 1960’s, Alot of anti-semitism died after that and people just became uninterested in attending services. (Given a choice between Saturday Little League games and/or Ballet lesson and going to shul, people picked the former). It wasnt people driving to shul that caused them to fail, it was people driving to the Mall instead that did.
DaasYochid,
Coffee addict is right. Their approach to halachah is agenda driven. At some point, when there is enough driving them (pardon the pun) towards chillul Shabbos, they will do that, just as conservative, which was supposedly halakhic, did.
True, other things may fall first, but it’s just a matter of time.
I agree with you and coffee addict that they are capable of this. If they decide down the road to drop the “Orthodox” moniker, then all bets are off. If they try to keep the label, however, they will preserve some tokens of observance in order to say, “hey! We’re Orthodox!” I personally think that driving on Shabbos would be one of those tokens, since it’s perceived as a “challenge” to do, but is uncontroversial in the secular liberal mindset.
In a matter of time, they will no longer care to be considered Orthodox.
DY: Because he doesn’t die even close to immediately and because there is ample opportunity (at least several hours, probably more) to start feeding him again.
You would be allowed to momentarily shut off a respirator as well if your intention was to immediately turn it back on. The problem is if you don’t plan to put the tube back in.
Is it not retzichah to lock someone in a room with no food, since he won’t die immediately?
Shimen, did we previously know you as jent1150?
may nobody be in such a position where you have to make such a decision
Amein!!
DaasYochid,
In a matter of time, they will no longer care to be considered Orthodox.
I think that has become more likely after the Moetzes statement (which was likely part of the purpose of the statement). For the time being, however, they are attempting to redefine what Orthodox Judaism is, so being considered “Orthodox” is important to that end.
DY: To lock someone in a room with no food is Gram Rechitzah. I’m pretty sure that’s an explicit Gemara in Sanhedrin. To lock someone in a room where he can find food (i.e. others can theoretically replace the feeding tube) may not even be that. It’s probably just Lo Sa’amod.
In a hospital setting, where the doctors and families are deciding to pull permanently, if the decision is made, it’s not as if someone is going to put it back. I think it would be gram retzichah.
This article appears in the New York Jewish Week.
Es chatai Ani mazkir hayom
I davened across the street from b&h without doing proper research, I did it in the middle of davening
I don’t plan on davening there again
“Think about taking the heart out of someone before he is halachically dead to transplant into someone else”
What OO rabbi has permitted that?
To MW13: Thanks for your comments and your work on these issues. I do disagree with one thing you said.
I thought the “open” in “Open Orthodoxy” had a similar meaning to an open marriage. In other words, it’s O.K. to cheat. The reason they use the title “Orthodox” is just a way of saying that if you are an orthodox day-school graduate who became a radical feminist or LGBT, you will feel comfortable in OO. Since those two types of people have no where else to go to daven, there is going to be a market for OO regardless of whether there is a warm, authentic Shul nearby or not.
Hope that helps.
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