#modern Yeshivish

So now that oyyoyyoy has joined the bandwagon (or perhaps in this case, the bannedwagon) it seems that we already have four people just in this thread who “don’t fit in any box”. Six more and we can start a shul. And we might not even need a Rabbi considering that one of our members might be halfway on* the road to Maharat-hood.

* writersoul: I actually wonder if you meant halfway on the road or halfway down the road. While both make sense, they mean two different things.

haha, while i do have in-box friends, i also have a group of out-box friends awso. there is more of a comfort with them. thats like five more.

PAA: You’re for partnership minyanim now? That’s definitely a box…

🙂

I think you’ll find you need seven people. Or just take secretagentyid instead of me, though I’ll volunteer to start a N’shei.

When I wrote that post I was wondering if I should preempt this misunderstanding but I decided not to. I wasn’t suggesting that we should have a minyan of women. I was assuming that the women involved will have have husbands. Which in retrospect may have been a bad assumption because there might be single girls who want to join the shul. So maybe we should do a partership minyan after all.

And yeah, probably both are quite accurate.

Is this referring to my question about the road, or something else?

PAA- Truw. But i think out-box people are more tolerant and can relate better to other out-boxers (oy), who by the by might also be seeking friends. Especially if both out-boxers have similar upbringings or backgrounds.

Oyyoyyoy:

I’m not sure that your assertion that “out-box people are more tolerant” is correct. As I pointed out in my second response to writersoul, I think their tolerance is more of a function of being in the middle than of not being in a group. Let’s assume that the average out-of-the-boxer is somewhere between modern and yeshivish (which may or may not be true, but I’m assuming it for the sake of making a point, and also I think it is what hashtag’s original post was about). So while the out-of-the-boxer might be more tolerant of the yeshivisher than the modernite is of the yeshivisher, and he is more tolerant of the modernite than the yeshivisher is of the modernite, he might be less tolerant of an open orthodoxite than the modernite is of the open orthodoxite, and he might be less tolerant of an extreme anti-zionist than the yeshivisher is of the extreme anti-zionist. This would be because a modernite is ideologically closer to an open orthodoxite than our protagonist is and a yeshivisher is ideologically closer to the anti-zionist than our protagonist is.

In essence my point is that I suspect that most out-of-the-boxers are not really out of the box; they are either in between two boxes or vacillating between two boxes. Naturally people will be more tolerant of those who are ideologically closer to them than they are of those who are not as ideologically close to them. However, someone who is truly out of the box is someone who doesn’t identify with any group, but appreciates different aspects of different groups and perhaps evaluates every issue separately. Such a person might have commonalities with every group along the ideological spectrum, and such a person will probably be more tolerant. Or I could also see such a person being less tolerant since he disagrees with every group. So maybe I take back what I just said, and in reality, tolerance has nothing to do with where you stand, but simply with how tolerant you are. Or maybe I’m not making any sense. I don’t know, so I’ll let you guys decide.

Here’s a breakdown of the difficulties as i see it:

1. Having Friends

a) at all

b) that you are/feel close with

c) that you are/feel not an outcast with

d) who u can put your gaurd down around and don’t have to be on defense

2. Belonging To A Sect

a) for feeling at home and a sense of kinship

b) who u can put your gaurd down around and don’t have to be on defense

c) you can just follow what comes along naturally instead of having to go thru each decision thoroughly

That’s why we have the coffee room.

Randmex, I did not write someone who has a job but someone who has a secular profession (i.e not Tora chinuch, safrut, etc.). I also did not say anything about being “left”. Actually, this term is somewhat misleading in regards to Jewish hashkafot as it originated in the French National Assembly, where the monarchists sat on the right and the republicans on the left. Thus getting a job should put someone on the right as he is upholding tradition whereas living on tzedaka as an ideology is left (this is especially true in the US, where the Left has created a welfare culture and the Right opposes it).

That’s why we have the coffee room.

its no joke. the ratio of out-box people to in-box people is quite larger here than the real world. this really explains it.

Typo:

“Sclissel” should say “Shlissel”.

true but between me n u, u were basicly saying it urself

There was once a girl who didn’t know what category to marry. After all there are so many different categories: Yeshivish, Modernish, Chassidish, Litvish, Heimish, British, etc. Then she had an epiphany. “Why don’t I find something that all these categories have in common?” she said. Well she searched mizrach mizrach, ma’ariv ma’riv, l’ma’aleh l’ma’aleh, l’mateh l’mateh, tzufin tzufin, durim durim, and the only thing she could find was that they all are “ish”. So she decided to marry an ish. And they may or may not have lived happily ever after.

Thank you.

Oomis:

Thank you. I did indeed make it up. I am honored that you want to say it over, all the more so in my name.

Syag:

“Ish” is the transliterated version of ???.

PAA – you don’t really think I was asking that, do you?

DaasYochid:

A CLEVERISH attempt but you got the wrong ending. Now you are forcing me to EMBELLISH my story. You see the girl in my story was actually rather SMARTISH and thus she realized that certain things are grounds to EXTINGUISH a marriage whereas other things are not so important as to cause her to RELINQUISH her husband and DEMOLISH her Bayis Ne’eman B’yisrael. She understood that such MINORISH things as what foods he eats are immaterial, and instead her focus would be to ESTABLISH a loving relationship. If she could ACCOMPLISH this then everything else would fall into place. Indeed she achieved this with a FLOURISH, and was able to VANQUISH any doubts she had had. Her husband was not BABYISH, nor BOORISH; he learned Torah in the Beis MEDRISH, performed mitzvos, and had much devotion when saying yehei shemei rabbah in KADDISH. With her loving husband at her side, all her problems seemed to VANISH. She would prepare him LAVISH meals (which might include a RADISH), but she knew that even if she didn’t, he would never PUNISH her. He would always offer to wash the DISH and POLISH it too so that it wouldn’t TARNISH and she would not BANISH him from the kitchen which gave them much time to spend conversing in ENGLISH. They would rarely have a SKIRMISH and they weren’t SQUEAMISH about making up. All in all, life was great; in fact her friends were jealous of her marriage. They would SQUISH into her house to tell her about their ANGUISH and she would ASTONISH them (though she would not ADMONISH them) with her simple responses. She would never DIMINISH her husband, and they never had to LANGUISH. And everyday he would thank her for letting him simply be… an ISH.

She realized that her story could help many young people who are FEVERISH about finding their spouse so she gave me permission to PUBLISH it here.

You probably figured unless she got a kallah shas when she got married, she wouldn’t know.

What’s the difference between Modern Orthodox Machmir & Modern Yeshivish?

I didn’t know that there were so many frum Jews that we could afford to divide into this many subcategories.

well played dudes.

but u gotta agree, it’s a bit childish to think most people from different ends of the spectrum can have a good marriage.

I don’t agree with his definition.

hashtag poster, I read that but I still don’t feel like I clearly know the line that differentiates Yeshivish Modern and MO? What about baalei teshuva who consider themselves MY? They only got frummer, no? I consider myself ‘Yeshivish-leaning’ so do I tick MO/MY?

#thanks

My Rav identifies with the Yeshivish Black Hat world, but he’s pro Israel He’s also okay with watching decent movies though I doubt at his house as he does not have a TV, and definitely not at the cinema. One of his daughters had a strictly segregated wedding & his wife and daughters dress Yeshivish style (which includes stockings. I find the MO community do not conform to this…). Is this a Modern Yeshivish Hashkafa?

Sasha, no. That is MO machmir. That is the very definition of mo machmir.

That is the very definition of mo machmir

It probably is MO machmir, but the very definition? I think the term is used more broadly than that.