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On what points do you agree or disagree with any of the shadchanim?
one of the shadchanim mentioned he is always impressed if people ask him about their prospective dates family cuz it shows they know what is important. i find that highly offensive- why should i be judged by my family? my parents are so anti- religous, they refuse to get themselves a filter for the internet cuz the rabbanim recomend it. but that doesnt mean i am bad! on the contarary, hashem thinks im strong enuf to withstand the nisayon of open internet- that makes me better than alot of you. i was very bothered by his comment. it made me anxious about getting married.
Moi: Are you suggesting that your relationship with your family isn’t an important part of who you are? No one is suggesting that a prospective date should be judged based on their family, however one’s family and their relationship with said family is important.
Was wondering why PD Roth wasn’t in the interview?
By seeing where someone’s family is holding and then seeing where they themselves are holding, you can see which direction they’re headed in.
and you can find out if there are issues no-one will tell you about.
Love the way they said extra money or financial incentives doesn’t make them work harder on a shidduch.
Hah! Yeh right.
There’s a chashash, one totally justified and corroborated by evidence and reality and the experiences of many people, that people are judged unnecessarily negatively for being either gerim or bt’s. The frum Jew by choice, born to the “wrong” family, whether they be Reform Jews or non-Jews, or an interfaith family, suffers and is tormented by racists and xenophobes.
Gerim and BTs should not envy FFBs for getting shidduchim with racists and homophobes. It’s great that you have a built-in filter for those who are overly judgmental.
We just attended a wedding on Sunday. The choson was FFB and the kallah was a giyores. They are such a sweet couple. It is not true that gerim and BTs can only marry each other.
Rebdoniel, that judgmentalism goes a lot deeper than gerim and bt’s and it’s not limited to haredim. What a luxury it is to be able to investigate your neighbor’s ancestry, hobbies, scrape-or-stack, and all the rest. When RSR Hirsch established his kehilla in Frankfurt, he set two conditions for membership: brit mila and a kosher marriage. When Jews began to move into Borough Park, there were enough shomrei Shabbat to sustain only one shtibl (Chevras Shomrei Shabbos, it’s still there). In many European communities today, the Rav sees the smiling side of a minyan on Shabbat only, if then. All across America are communities that report one-sixth affiliation with Jewish institutions of any kind (e.g., JCCs).
I’m wondering why the shidduch business has to go through the parents
jewishfeminist02 – I think you’re confusing homophobes and xenophobes. As a religious Jew, you’re probably best off being a homophobe. On that note, you’re probably best off being a xenophobe too, though obviously not against other Jews. Which is not included in the definition of xenophobe anyway. Basically we need some more words to use here.
I have two friends with mothers who converted. One of them was at a shiur and she was hearing all this stuff about how important yichus is, and how it’s such a major deal in shidduchim, and it’s just not the same when you have a convert or baal teshuvah, and tzaddik ben tzaddik, and all that kind of stuff. She came out of there looking like she was about to cry. It happens to be, she has married siblings who found great matches. I just told her what jfem mentioned about a built-in filter, because it’s totally true. I wish I had one like that.
Actually, when I think about it, being overweight and not pretty, I DO have a built in filter. Handy.
ok, youre right, i overreacted. i am truly sorry.
LAB: HomoPHOBE and xenoPHOBE are a bit strong, though…
writersoul – The word homophobe was concocted by Western society trying to push its perverted “values” on the world. By labeling people who are againt their agenda as “phobes” – which means having “extreme or irrational fear of or aversion to something” – they successfully managed to make the people with morals look like the crazies.
LevAryehBoy, the Torah doesn’t tell us to be have an “extreme or irrational fear of or aversion to” homosexual people. It tells us not to engage in homosexual behavior, but the HATE that homosexuals receive in the frum community creates an environment where those struggling with the issue are terrified to find a way work through their nisayon.
LAB: For sure. As they’re the ones who give legitimacy to language (meaning is in the eye of the beholder), don’t bend to the propaganda! For better or for worse, the ball is in their court- there’s no need to let them define you.
ObstacleIllusion – Though (as I stated) I do not really believe the word should exist, it is generally used in mainstream media to describe people who are opposed to gay rights. You, as a religious Jew, have an obligation to be averse to that. V’lo savi to’evah el be’sacha.
All I meant in my previous post (if it was not already abundantly clear) is that they concocted a strong-sounding word to describe views which merely oppose their own. I never said that people defined by the media as homophobes actually have an “extreme or irrational fear of or aversion to” homosexuality.
That being said, one should definitely view activities which the Torah forbids with disgust (and possibly hate). The scenario you describe is someone struggling with an unwanted attraction and who wants to work through his yetzer hara and do the right thing. A religious Jew being a proverbial homophobe should mean that he has an “extreme or irrational fear of or aversion to” open, flaunting, proud, or even simply unrepentant and rationalizing homosexual behavior.
Let’s also not forget that the sin of cursing a fellow Jew is derived from Venasi be’amcha lo sa’or (Sanhedrin 66a), which only applies to someone who is oseh ma’aseh amcha (Bava Kama 94b, Sanhedrin 85a, Yevamos 22b, etc.)
I didn’t read it, but surely a person’s family gives you their context.
I’m sure we are all familiar with what Chazal say about Rov Banim. If you made an obvious change from the way of your family then that is noted as well.
Balei Teshuva and Geirim do have a shortcoming, that they didn’t grow up observing a Jewish home and its Chinuch. It’s hard to be Mechanech out of a book. They should therefore keep in touch with someone in Chinuch and Kiruv.
LAB: But you don’t need to let them name you. That’s what I was saying- if the word they made for you doesn’t mean what you want it to mean, just use a different word.
I wouldn’t call myself a homophobe. Make of that what you will.
Don’t let them decide what you are. Invent a better word. Because since the meaning of language is in the eye of the beholder, you will be misunderstood, unless you don’t care.
i am. and im also a chil-molester-ophobe. seriously, when im near these two types of people my gut reaction is to use a blunt objet with alot of force.
Yes, sorry, I meant to write xenophobe, not homophobe.
Haleivi: I would not call it a “shortcoming” to have grown up in a non-observant home. A “shortcoming” implies a flaw of some sort. To the contrary, I think baalei teshuvah and geirim are to be admired for their strength and d’veykus. They have nisyonos that FFBs cannot possibly imagine, and on the whole, they have a love and appreciation for frumkeit that most of us can only dream of. My father was a baal teshuvah. So is my husband. It is not, however, necessary for him to “keep in touch with someone in Kiruv and Chinuch”. He has his rav, just like everyone else. Kiruv rebbeim were very helpful when he was just discovering Judaism, but there is no reason for him to check in with them anymore.
Jewish, you are right. But that has nothing to do with my point.
writersoul – Well said. Now I need to invent a word.
I recently heard in a shmooze from Rav Moshe Tuvia Lieff that the reason the Bas-Kol said “Bas Ploni liPloni”, and not “Plonis liPloni” or “Bas Ploni liBen Ploni”, is that for the girl, the family really does matter and seems to say something about her.
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