Minahg Lag BaOmer or outdoor fire prohibition

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  • #617722
    yichusdik
    Participant

    As you may have seen in the news, Fire authorities in Israel have issued a prohibition on campfires, bonfires, and indeed any outdoor fires in Israel due to the extreme heat and drynesss, keeping the tragedy of the Har HaCarmel forest fires in mind. Nonetheless, Lag baOmer is approaching, and as anyone who has been in Israel for Lag BaOmer knows, bonfires are everywhere, following a truly ancient minhag.

    To burn or not to burn. The answer has implications beyond the obvious.

    #1153366
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    I am not familiar with the current situation in Israel, but if the government says there is a High risk for forest fires, you should listen. If you dont think Forest Fires are dangerous, google Fort MacMurry, Alberta. An entire City in Canada of 90,000 was destroyed by a forest fire.

    Dont be a chassid Shoteh, If the land is parched, dont put others in danger

    #1153367
    Sam2
    Participant

    People will ignore the rule, some will get arrested, and hopefully no tragedy R”L occurs.

    #1153368
    yichusdik
    Participant

    Thank you, Zahavasdad. I agree, though I was wondering what others thought. BTW, Indeed 94,000 people were evacuated from Fort MacMurray, and it`ll be another few weeks before they can return. But thankfully only about 13-14% of the structures in the town, about 2500 homes and buildings, were destroyed, less than originally feared, thanks to the heroic firefighters.

    I hope, Sam2, that no one ignores the warnings and prohibitions.

    #1153369
    Little Froggie
    Participant

    Someone told me it’s quite scary. They needed planes to put out a fire some troublemakers had started… it grew too big, too fast..

    #1153370
    writersoul
    Participant

    I’ve been in places in Israel with a truly scary amount of small bonfires, completely unregulated, among the brush in fields surrounded by buildings. Particularly in drought conditions, that’s a massive fire waiting to happen. If there must be a fire, it can be carefully regulated and centralized, but no minhag is worth the potential huge risk of fire.

    #1153371
    ubiquitin
    Participant

    Ah but dont forget minhag oker halacha 🙂

    “bonfires are everywhere, following a truly ancient minhag.”

    Out of curiosity how ancient do you think it is?

    #1153372
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    It doesnt matter what I think. There are those who will claim, WE MUST DO THE BON FIRE because its a Minhag and that hashem will protect

    #1153373
    yichusdik
    Participant

    Ubiquitin, Lubavitch has a mesorah that R’Shimon Bar Yochai told his followers to mark his passing by lighting bonfires. I don’t know how accurate it is, but it exists.

    There’s an idea that came into vogue among Zionist scholars (some of whom were secular and some of whom were frum) that the bonfires were a remembrance of the signal fires of the Bar Kochba rebellion. As a historian I don’t find that a compelling indication of it being an ancient custom, even if it fit an ideological agenda.

    The Bar Kochba rebellion might have used signal fires, at least between outposts in the Judean hills. But those who lived there would have used them anyways, rebellion or not, to indicate holidays, or to warn of things other than Romans.

    In the years following the Rebellion, there would have been fewer residents than ever of those hills; there would have been less wood for burning and fewer people to keep fires burning and under control; and there would have been an active Roman occupation that would have stamped out any customs as we are told they did. So I do NOT think that custom would have had anywhere to gain traction.

    If we’re going to find the earliest indications of this custom, we’d need to look at places where the Jewish community wasn’t restricted to cities and ghettos. In places like those, bonfires were dangerous and generally forbidden by the authorities for practical reasons, even more than to persecute.

    I’d look to places like Spain and southern France, where there were Jewish communities that were not restricted to cities; to places in eretz Yisroel like Pekiin in the Galil, with more wood and less strife, where there were Jews right through until the crusades; or places further East.

    #1153375
    B1g B0y
    Participant

    This morning a drenching five minute downpour erased any issues for Lag baomer fires (at least in yerushalayim)

    #1153376

    I didn’t hear anything about a ban. As far as I know where I live fires will be like normal

    #1153377
    mw13
    Participant
    #1153378
    yichusdik
    Participant

    …aaand, big boy, I’m afraid the drenching didn’t help as much as you thought. Once again, fires from Lag BaOmer bonfires.

    So I wonder. Given the clear sakonoh, at least this year. Would it not have been prudent, appropriate, and demonstrating leadership for one or many among the manhigim of the community to issue a kol koreh to prohibit bonfires under specific circumstances? Is the fact that the Fire authorities issued a prohibition weeks ago a help or a hindrance to them doing so? Should it matter?

    And If not, why not?

    #1153379
    charliehall
    Participant

    Pikuah nefesh trumps even death penalty prohibitions like Hilchot Shabat. Kal v’chomer any minhag.

    #1153380
    mw13
    Participant

    The large, official bonfires that are made by the Rebbes are usually pretty organized and safe. The problem is the “little” fires that are made by unsupervised kids on every street corner, which aren’t always so little…

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