Meshulachim

“Aniyai Irchu Kodmin”

Mayan_Dvash,

I think aniyai eretz yisroel are considered aniyai irchu

lesschumras,

ask your LOR.

ask your LOR btw i think your supposed to give the local one

Curious, Does “ask your local Rabbi” mean that you can ask one in Eretz Yisroel (or maybe Yerushalayim)?

A related question…. I am single and live alone. Several times recently, meshulachim have come to my apartment when I was already dressed for bed. If there is a knock, I ask who it is, and if it is a meshulach, I say that I cannot open the door at this time. Most of the time they leave, bit sometimes they are very insistent that I open the door! This can be as late as 10pm. One pair of gentlemen continued knocking for about 15 minutes and was yelling in Yiddish and scared me. I called a (male married) neighbor who came over and spoke to the meshulachim. But was I supposed to open the door? Even when I am not dressed for bed, I still do not feel comfortable opening the door at night. Am I supposed to anyway? Thanks!

your city first.

sarah_613- You are not obligated to open the door of your home at 10pm to anyone. This is outrageous to come to someones home at such an hour. I have collected in the past, and my rule of thumb was to collect between the hours of 5pm.-9pm. To try to force someone to give a contribution goes beyond the common courtesy of collecting in general. Always rely on your gut level feeling as far as letting somene into your home.

sarah_613

Never answer the door if there is a male at the door. I am married but do not answer the door if there is a male standing there (I have a peephole) if my husband is not home. sometimes I don’t feel good about it but it is still the right thing to do. Even if you are dressed to go out, don’t open the door.

“A related question…. I am single and live alone. Several times recently, meshulachim have come to my apartment when I was already dressed for bed. If there is a knock, I ask who it is, and if it is a meshulach, I say that I cannot open the door at this time. Most of the time they leave, bit sometimes they are very insistent that I open the door! This can be as late as 10pm. One pair of gentlemen continued knocking for about 15 minutes and was yelling in Yiddish and scared me. I called a (male married) neighbor who came over and spoke to the meshulachim. But was I supposed to open the door? Even when I am not dressed for bed, I still do not feel comfortable opening the door at night. Am I supposed to anyway? Thanks! “

NO, NO, NO!!!!!! NO one has the right to be so chutzpadig as to come to anyone so late at night. And even were it not late at night, if you are a woman alone, you should not open your door. There are women who have been molested doing that. You should have told the man you were calling the police. I tell meshulachim who come in the night thatI do not open the door at night, and if they come back the next morning after 9 AM, I will give them something (in my neighborhood, they must present a teudah signed by the vaad of tzedaka, that is basically a permit for collecting in the neighborhood. This is because too many times people have been swindled by charlatans and ganovim, in one case someone was robbed by a phony collector. The vaad checks out the validitiy of the claim for need of funds, and then acts accordingly. Great system. Anyone who shows up at your door at an odd hour, is beyond belief. You have no chiyuv. If someone came knocking at my door at that hour claiming an emergency, I would offer to call 911 or hatzolah for them, but I would not open my door. We live in crazy times, unfortunately.

oomis1105,

sounds like a great system! It would help the real meshulachim as well. People tend to be weary of all meshulachim because of the phony ones which is very sad for those who don’t deserve it but people are burned.

they have never asked to use the restroom, but I do offer them a drink hot/cold which so far all have taken me up apon the offer… just treat them like people thats it

Demanding a certain amount or more than offered is not just chutzpa, it is a sure sign of a faker.

Like I said, a sure faker.

Someone who is genuine in their collecting will be grateful for whatever is given.

Whilst one should strive never to refuse the giving of tzedokoh (I don’t want to get into the halachos here) at the same turn, a person genuine in their collecting may not refuse what is given to him. If the amount proffered is rebuffed one may decline to give the person anything.

I know times are hard but most collectors are genuine and only a small minority are a bunch of crooks who spoil the name for the many good people who come collecting either for their familiy or a good cause.

As for people coming after ten o’clock. Please remember men often come round after Maariv which can well be after 10 o’ clock. They are also charged per hour and / or by the day by their drivers and so want to cram in as much as possible during their short time in your locality with as many as can fit into one car. Therefore it is always a good idea to divide your donations so there is a spread.

If you give over a certain amount your house is marked by the driver for future meshaluchim who will come in droves demanding a high figure.

Sounds all a bit mercenary doesn’t it and makes you very sceptical but that’s how it goes.

Meshulachim need to be careful how they approach people…a crazy story…came home from megila one purim night and there were a group of bums and hooligans on the front lawn. They looked like they were trying to canvass the place to rob or otherwise up to no good. This family drove up to their home (this one) and the father got out to scare them all away. Fearful for his wife and kid’s lives, he bravely shut the car door and went to the house. He found out that they were meshluchim!!! These boys need to realize that doing that late at night, with realistic costumes especially, is inappropriate and wrong.

jewishfeminist02

Sorry, I guess I should have been more specific. I was referring to a man, somewhere from older teenager and up (even an older man). If it is your cousin, brother-in-law, or father, I would assume you should open the door (make sure it’s not a problem with yichud before letting them in of course…) I there is a six-year-old boy standing there, you should probably not feel very threatened. 🙂 Is it clear now?

Now I’m just curious, did you really think I meant all males, or were you just trying to point out that I did not use specific enough language?

My mother has a pushka with $1 bills to hand out to collectors. She gives lots of tzedaka regularly, but hates to turn others away. This was her compromise – she gives them something, but if they are a scammer, then they only got $1.

When people complain my donation is not enough, I tell them that is all my husband allows. They understand that.

First of all, a child should be trained to NEVER say “my tateh is nisht aheim.” No one should be thinking that a child’s parent is not there. In fact, my kids were always taught to leave the door closed and say, “My parents are busy right now and can’t come to the door, could you please leave a message?”

I don’t care HOW difficult the meshulach’s job is, in today’s very violent world NO ONE has any obligation Tzedaka or not, to open their door at night to a stranger. I am sorry if they need the restroom or are thirsty, but robbers have dressed up like chassidic-looking collectors, attacked and then tied up the entire family, robbed them blind, and left them traumatized. The message needs to get out that there is a time to collect and after that time (as far as I am concerned that is at nightfall), come back the next morning. I realize that is a problem for the meshulachim, but my family’s life comes before their lives.

Now to relate my own nasty collector story, A meshulach came by when I just had given birth, and I finally got my baby to sleep when he rang my doorbell. I was not dressed properly to open a door, so I told him ina soft voice, as my baby was not a good sleeper when hearing people around, to please leave, that I could not open the door. He definitely heard me, because he became belligerent, WHY couldn’t I open the door???? He started pounding on the door, waking my baby, who began screaming, and refused to leave until in frustration I threatened to call the police. Another time, I opened the door and the meshulach asked for tzedaka. All I had in my wallet was $50 bill ( an anniversary present which I had received from my parents for a special anniversary year), and a few quarters. I offered the quarters to the man, he looked at me disdainfully and said, “Is that all you have? I’ll take a check.” I told him I don’t write checks to strangers, it was the quarters or nothing. He took the quarters, and then suddenly threw them back at me, turned around and left abruptly. This has happened more than once, when I didn’t give them “enough.” That is not a meshulach l’sheim Shamayim. That is a bulvan. And if you gave to one of them, then they send their friend, too, who is collecting for the same cause as they are.

There is a weird trend in E”Y that they ask for a credit card number? do people actually give their credit card number to someone calling from an organization? If I call a bunch of numbers and say I’m calling from Yad Chana Esther (made up name) they will give me their credit card number? Yay! All I have to do is buy one of those machines and i’m rich!

intellegent, I didn’t think you really meant all males, but I thought it was strange that you said “never open the door for any male” when I would have thought to write “never open the door for a strange man” or even just “never open the door for a man”. I just wanted to clarify to make sure you meant what I thought you meant.

meshulachim come to my door once every few weeks so i give depending on what they are collecting for

There are so comments already on this subject but I wanted to add one more. This is related to I think what Mazal said regarding phone solicitations and fake organizations. It is very important to check on the reliability of any organization whether by phone by requesting a letter sent by mail or a meshulach at the door even if they say they represent a Yeshiva or other mossad that’s well known.

For Israeli organizations you can check online with Olam Hatorah http://www.torahindex.com

It’s hard to stress enough the importance of this verification.

1) “The collecters that send others to the ppl that gave them nicely are being oiver a mefurish gemara in elu metzios That a person shouldn’t say my host treated me exceptionally because in result others will burden themselves onto that host and it comes out he returned his host a bad for a good! “

2) “ooomis15, a true chutzpah on their part. as much as we have an obligation to give they have to learn to accept what they are given and not beg for more.

Last night, after 11 our bell rang it was a van full of meshulachim…all whom had just been by us on chanuka and received money…a groisser chutzpah if you ask me.”

What is especially upsetting is when these guys come to my house (in a beautiful limousine parked around the corner (they don’t know I can see from my back window as they come around the block), and one after another of them ring ther bell. I finally caught on that they were all from the same place, after the third guy came collecting and received money (of course no one showed a teudah, but neither do I ever ask to see one, so I guess that is my responsibility), and I stopped answering the doorbell. As I once explained, collectors are supposed to get a permit to collect in my neighborhood. It is issued by our local tzedaka vaad. I don’t usually ask to see the teudah, I always just gave, because the person came to collect. But after MANY bad experiences, and after a woman in the neighborhood was robbed by a guy dressed as a collector, I am more circumspect and selective.

Thanks, Rosh Yeshivah, for the halacha from Elu M’tziyos that you explained.

veyatziv- The level of self restraint that you showed was admirable. You are right to coerce someone to give you a contribution is ganifta. When someone invites you into their home, at least you can exhibit a modicum of derech eretz and kavod for the bal tzeddka. After all as a Meshulach you are an Ambassador from a Tzeddka orginization, and the way the home owner is treated (from their point of view) gives either a good or bad impression of the integrity of the Tzeddeka Organization.