Mentioning a person “dies of Covid” in headline

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  • #1912529
    Slimshim1
    Participant

    I think it’s time that TYW stopped saying that a niftar died “of Covid” in the headline. I’m not sure the purpose. Is it to sensationalize? Is it to minimize? At this point does it really matter? It is another gadol who died. And another. And another. Why does Covid matter? Is anyone changing their behavior? Is anyone learning from their mistakes? Is a 93yr old gadol who dies of a preventable disease more important than a random frum person who dies in a car accident that wasn’t his fault? Dying from COVID isn’t “cool”. There’s no glamour. If anything it may be an insult. I don’t want to and I don’t need to know anymore.

    #1912612
    frumnotyeshivish
    Participant

    There are many people in covid denial. Do you have a better way of waking them up?

    #1912610
    Quayboardwarrior
    Participant

    >If anything it may be an insult. I don’t want to and I don’t need to know anymore.

    There is your answer. Some people adamantly wish to remain in denial.

    #1912621
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Maybe people like you Slimshim1 will learn from it to watch out from Covid.

    #1912620
    Slimshim1
    Participant

    I’m the opposite of denial. I don’t want them to get credit for dying of Covid. As if they’re hero’s.

    #1912618
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    The above exchange is the most cogent illustration of WHY we need to have YWN continue to provide the Covid linkage to the announcements of those who were niftar, along with the photos of the overflowing morgues and exhausted members of thechevrah kadishah. Politicians like Trump and Bibi are running arounding flouting the rules and trying to block out Covid from the nightly news. Trump was mocking those who keep focusing on Covid and claiming that people “don’t want to hear Covid” anymore and want to magically “get back to normal” and “be happy”.
    Yup Slimshim: Don’t worry, be happy. We have lots of gadolim, so YWN mentioning a few dying from Covid is no big deal. Even less a big deal if the niftar is just a poishete yid.

    #1912634
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    “Yup Slimshim: Don’t worry, be happy. We have lots of gadolim, so YWN mentioning a few dying from Covid is no big deal. Even less a big deal if the niftar is just a poishete yid.”

    Will you just STOP it already?! I can’t deal with this! Stop putting connections that weren’t said! Do you have any idea that maybe some people are overwhelmed with fear, NOT displaying denial? Maybe i want them to stop because i secretly believe people like you read about those gedolim and say, ” Serves him right for being charedi, he couldn’t have been wearing a mask” ch”v.

    #1912641
    akuperma
    Participant

    The goal of mass media is to encourage people to panic and feel that something horrible is going on. That is what, as they used to say “sells newspapers” (in 21st century, “motivates clicks”). If people realized that the death rate due to Covid19 is under 1 in 1000, and compared that to the “normal” death rate in America which is roughly 8 per 1000, and that most of the deaths are of people who were very old (older than “baby boomers”) or very sick to begin with, they might not panic. They would ask politically incorrect questions such as “Why did we close schools” or “Why did they close shuls” or “Why did they close down businesses” or “Why did they deprive some many people of their parnassah”. So not exaggerating the impact of Covid10 would cause people to question their betters, and what sort of society would you have if the commoners didn’t know their place? Where would people like Cuomo be without media that twist the facts to make them more sensational? It is no accident that the highest awards in journalism, the Pulitzers, are named for someone reknown for “yellow journalism”.

    #1912733
    Get educated
    Participant

    CDC shows COVID-19 has high survival rate; doctor still wants to see precautions taken


    CDC shows COVID-19 has high survival rate; doctor still wants to see precautions taken
    A CDC update Wednesday says individuals are more likely to survive the coronavirus after contracting it. The health agency says if you have the virus between the ages of 0 to 70, you have a 99% survival rate. And if you’re over 70, the survival rate is nearly 95%.
    Gov. Ron DeSantis also tweeted about the update, saying people in the age groups of 0 to 19 have a 99.997% chance of survival if they contract COVID-19, the age group of 20 to 49 a 99.98% chance, 50 to 69 years old 99.5% and 70 years old and above a 94.6% chance.

    #1912758
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Sorry Syag, but fear of the virus by some segment of the tzibur is NOT a reason to lessen the focus on what is happening and what could happen if political leaders don’t get out front of what appears to be a second wave (whatever that means) of the virus. Several European countries have either shut down again or are about to do so in an attempt to avoid massive increases in viral infections. Masks and social distancing are the ONLY real options we have now to reduce the rates of infection and are the best way to get back to normal .
    As to your stupid comment about myself (or any YWN reader) feeling smug about Chareidim being niftar from covid and thinking “it serves them right”, I’ll assume you had a long day and won’t bother with a response. In reality, most of those who were niftar probably were careful about Coronoa protocols but were infected by others who were less careful so no, “it doesn’t serve the right”

    #1912814

    GH >> . Masks and social distancing are the ONLY real options

    I am thinking at this point that we are neglecting another public health tool – tracing and early warning.
    COVID propagation is “clustered” – it is one day here, another day there. Not just my words, three is research on that. That explains people who say – it is not in our community any more, and then a month later – it is.

    If this is true in general, it happens even more in Jewish community: there are multiple connections within and weak connections to outside. This may explain (ltzad zhut) why so many Jews behave as if there is no virus – because there is none. Right now. And then it comes next day and propagates very quickly.

    So, in addition to pressing people to be more careful, we probably need our own tracing and warning system, same way we have Hatzolah. We can’t wait until government tracers figure out who is a husid and who is a misnagid. WSJ recently had an article about Syrians between Brooklyn, Deal, etc who have a whatsup group between doctors who serve different locations of the same connected community. Anyone has such tracing/warning system in your community?

    #1912822
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Always Ask: You are 100 percent correct. Tracing and early warning is an essential element of a response. The problem is you have to start early, make contacts quickly and have the support of the local community. Sadly, federal funding to assist the States in setting up their tracing programs came late and many States still have not used the available funds. In a lot of Red states, there was considerable pushback against tracing programs that were deemed ‘intrusive’ and those that were contacted were often reluctant to share accurate information about those they might have been in contact with. Sadly, with the current spike in many red states, the number of new cases has overwhelmed available tracing programs. Just today, South Dakota (the worst state in terms of new cases) acknowledged that it was taking up to a week to contact individuals testing positive for Corona, by which time contact tracing was pointless. The Governor, who has refused to impose any statewide mask rules or limits on public gatherings is considering mobilizing National Guard troops to try and expand contact tracing efforts.

    #1912835

    GH, that is why I think Jewish communities need their own warning systems. Are there any commuincation lines open? do school principals inform at least each other of new cases?
    are front-line doctors allowed to warn the community when they see new cases?

    I observe that when there is specific information about a local community, significant number of people become more careful, and they even feel smart – see, we can wear a mask when it “really”
    matters. But this works only with a good warning system. If we wait for several people to go take test, get an answer in several days, then news take several days to propagate – this is too late.

    It got to be daily text messages – suspected symptoms by school and class; positive and negative test, etc. Many universities, which are similar in structure as a community – inside connection, limited outside, parties, mixture of young with old – publish test information several times a week: total, negatives, positives. And quick turn-around tests of most exposed people. This has to be done where communities are trying to stay open.

    #1913394
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    The local MO yeshivos already had in-place text and email systems for communicating to parents about everything from snow days to school security lockdowns so adding Covid messaging was really not much of strech. They also have very active parent listserv social media groups etc. that supplement “official” school communicaitons. This could be more of a challenge for some Chareidi schools where the hashkafah doesn’t allow for internet etc. but there are still options using the telephone or designating a limited number of parents (with the approval of their LRP) in each neighborhood or building to receive official online notices. Hopefully, the past few months have reinforced the need for even the most isolated segments of the tzibur to “plug in” and have access to current and reliable information on emergencies that arise.

    #1913432
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    GH- you may find this both surprising and horrifying but we have been getting both text and email alerts and messages for years! And simultaneously, phone calls! So I know it means a lot to you that we should up our internet access – based on the frequency of the suggestion, but we may just have to retain our alternative options for now.

    #1913659
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Syag: Its good that so many DO have internet alerts and information sharing. However, during the early months of the shutdowns, there were many posts regarding those in the frum community and schools where such access was lacking. Hopefully you are correct, and those who lacked such access 6 months ago now have greater connectivity to real time information from those they trust.

    #1913838
    Ari256
    Participant

    If you take a look at the shiva listings there are too many names, and many with kids at home

    #1913854

    GH, Syag, I agree that the connectivity improved greatly everywhere. I am wondering whether school-centered system woks well everywhere (I am sure it works well in many places):
    1) some schools might be hesitant to share all details. maybe will share what they have to… I am not sure what I’ll report if my livelihood depend on it …
    2) virus may enter community from other angles before getting to schools
    3) information needs to get to other people, not just those at a particular school

    #1914033
    rational
    Participant

    Less than a .001 chance of dying of the Corona virus is certainly not alarming.
    I have a friend who had a healthy mother and father. A friend of the mother visited on Rosh Hashanah without a mask. The visitor was an asymptomatic carrier and unwittingly passed the virus on to the mother. The mother unwittingly passed the virus on to her husband .
    The mother’s levayah was on Hoshanah Raba. The father’s levayah was on Isru Chag.

    Oh well, it’s just an anecdote, statistically insignificant. Strange things happen. Maybe they stopped breathing out of boredom. No need to publicize it, it just causes panic. People will be overwhelmed. They weren’t gedolei hador anyway, so except for the children, who really cares?

    #1914107
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    The tragic reality of where we are was acknowledged by Trump’s Chief-of-Staff, Mark Meadows, who waved the surrender flag over the weekend and said we “no longer can control [the virus]” but will hopefully be able to mitigate the mortality and longer-term morbidity rate of those who are hospitalized. We no longer care about the spiraling number of “cases” as Trump said yesterday but we don’t want to talk about “Covid, Covid, Covoid”. We also don’t want to infringe on the personal liberties of real Americans (aka “inconvenience” of my fellow Trumpkopfs)( by making them wear masks. However, if you are hospitalized, we have lots of ventilators and hopefully, you will be fortunate enough to go to a hospital where you can get lots of ZINC with you HCQ and Regeneron. If some die, it will be for a good cause….getting me reelected. i

    #1914120
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    “However, if you are hospitalized, we have lots of ventilators and hopefully, you will be fortunate enough to go to a hospital where you can get lots of ZINC with you HCQ and Regeneron. If some die, it will be for a good cause….getting me reelected. i”

    I didn’t think your insane claims could get more disgusting but i was wrong. You really need a reality check.

    #1914256
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Syag: Just channeling the insane assertions of POTUS and the WH chief of staff. I did a reality check in the past hour. Nearly 75,000 NEW cases in the past 24 hours, hospitalizations trending upin 34 states, ICUs at hospitals in several states in the midwest and west at or over capacity, etc. and Trump is mindlessly running around claiming “we’ve turned the corner” and “its disappearing”. Still holding big rallies where most attendees are maskless (except behind the podium) and ridiculing reporters and others who insist on wearing masks. Criticizing state and local governments who follow his own Task Force guidelines on best practices to control viral spread. While I will give him the benefit of the doubt on the slow responses to Covid earlier this year, his actions and behavior in the past few months have been reckless and irresponsible and a costing lives.

    #1914674

    @gadol,
    Indeed, it is an unfortunate, or a pre-planned, case that COVID coincided with an election (this may be a good argument NOT to run elections for the whole 4 years…).

    Both sides seemingly succumbed to the virus: Trump projects optimism, Biden threatens dark winter unless he is elected. They are not the only one firmly defending principles that coincide with their interests: gym owners who say exercise is important, bar owners who say relaxing is important, principals who say in-person learning is essential.

    So, look more at actions and achievements. One group I am disappointed with are pro-business never-Trumpers, like Romney and Bloomberg who actually ave expertise. I did not see them doing a lot. May have missed.

    #1915039
    Slimshim1
    Participant

    Syag, your quote of Gedolah is almost literally what Trump has said.

    Google “seven deadly sins” (of which roots are probably in the Torah) and each one has Trumps name all over it. You could say he’s the best policy president ever but he is a mushcis. A liar. A bully. Count on your fingers how many times he’s apologized or admitted he made a mistake over the last 4 years and probably his whole life. He has no empathy at all. He is everything that I would have gotten my mouth washed out with soap, hit by my Rebbe and parents and kicked out of yeshiva. He stands for everything the Torah doesn’t. It’s one thing to vote for him b’shev v’al taaseh. It’s another b’kum v’aseh. Go ahead Boro park teach your children that he’s a role model. See how they turn out as teenagers. It is a chillul Hashem of the greatest magnitude. There will be din v’cheshbon one day for this madness.

    #1915240
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    I’m not going to reply to any of these pointsbecause it’s pointless. The hate of “the other guy” is so intense that people are more irrational about this than the zionism/anti zionism views. It’s sad and divisive that nobody will allow them selves to admit even to any minor good points someone will make for “the other side”. How this happened, i don’t know. Why, is even more puzzling as neither candidate is worthy of this much of our emotional energy.
    I only want to answer to this type of totally out of bounds comment:

     It is a chillul Hashem of the greatest magnitude. There will be din v’cheshbon one day for this madness.

    You are talking about an election. You can denounce anyone you feel deserves it but people opposing abortion and gay marriage is not a chilul Hashem. The only din vcheshbon will be for all the energy we as a klal have put into something as stupid and meaningless as an election that should have gone to more spiritual endeavors.

    #1915306
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Trump relies on a crazy idea of herd immunity without a vaccine were many people get infected and end up dying.

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