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Dear Mods: Please close this thread , I think all the points were already made.
000646 -“Health,
The 4th grade education thing is not mentioned in the book. She said it in an interview.”
So the fact that she only lies in public interviews and repeats false rumors that even Anti-Frum publications like the Jewish week claim are false, are irrevelant – such a person would never lie in her book?
“Would you mind pointing out which facts in her book are not true?”
From the poster below:
“They were discussing the truthfullness of what she said and a teacher who had taught with her said:
In her book she said she never wore makeup until her wedding. But I taught with her when she was single, and she wore makeup every single day.”
“Can you explain how you know her book is “full of falsehoods” if you have not read it?”
I never said “I know”. Don’t put words in my mouth! I’ll repeat what I posted -“If I’d want to waste my time and read her trash -I’m sure I’d find many falsehoods!”
“Or do you just assume anything that writes something negative about your way of life is false?”
Actually I don’t assume anything in life. I look at things as much as humanly possible in an objective way.
It’s obvious you can’t!
I’ll repeat what I posted above:
“For you to keep posting how accurate her book is, even though it’s quite obviously just another antisemitic book, you must have an agenda. What is it? Do you hate all Frum Jews or just Satmar?”
Every piece of mag trash out there has some truth. The Enquirer nowadays has lots of true statements -that’s because they kept getting sued until they learned their lesson. As matter of fact people say that in every lie there has to be some truth. IMHO, there are more true statements in the Enquirer, the Star, the Globe, etc. than probably in her book. So the fact that her book is selling like hot cakes -means to me that the same people who buy these supermarket trash mags are now buying a book.
And if you tell me -there are some intelligent people buying this book who would never buy these trash mags -then they must be buying it because they are virile antisemities!
actually she said she had never worn that much makeup. she said that until then she had only used cheap blush and foundation.
a mamin: having a specific agenda doesnt make you a liar. i read her book, did you? i didnt see any lies in it. in fact the entire time i was reading all i could think was: what shes saying is technically true, its just a crying shame that thats how she saw it all.
“a mamin: having a specific agenda doesnt make you a liar. i read her book, did you? i didnt see any lies in it.”
I read the book and I am chassidish so I know what I’m talking about when I say she is lying.
how was she lying
soleik: I’m sorry you are not aware of all the customs in Chassidus, (Neither am I) so you don’t realize when she is lying. I would NEVER read that TRASH, but unfortunately I have read enough excerpts, which are TOTAL LIES. This thread is getting longer and longer with everyone still holding in the same place as they were originally. So what is the purpose of continuing? With all those knowledgeable with her circles, saying she’s lying! With all the MISNAGDIM looking for any excuse to BASH chassidim , saying there are no lies!! With many pointing out the lies and everyone denying it… so this is really ridiculous! I don’t know why this thread is not closed yet??
Zdad.
You said “It really is dishonest to comment on a book that you have not read.” yet you comment all the time about things that yuo clearly have no inkling about.
So by your own definition you are dishonest.
Surprise? I think not.
I did read many parts of the book, its mostly lies and complete fabrications from top to bottom, and even those episodes or remarks that aren’t totally fabricated, are exaggerated by far, way twisted and totally taken out of context.
In a clear, legible manner, can you please list the lies in the book? All I’ve seen is a bunch of hate, ignoring facts.
im with feif on this un
I’m with both soliek and Feif Un. Without telling us “I never read it, but it’s full of trash”, please list the lies she said (and properly quote them), and then tell us the truth.
Thanks!
Go back and read the last 400 posts and you will see.
thats not good enough. i HAVE read every post in this thread. i want you to list her lies.
Her libel and defamation against every single frum Jew with her publishing the blood libel of a false murder accusation is — even on its own, which it isn’t — sufficient to condemn her.
Naisberg, as was stated before, she never said there was definitely a murder. She said her husband told her that he’d heard from someone else that there was. How do you know that never happened? She presented it as two levels of hearsay. That’s not a lie.
which she heard from her husband–take that up with him. yoy just said there are other lies in the book, please point them out. i understand your displeasure with the book, and im right there with you, but if youre going to accuse someone of lying it would seem prudent to have citations ready
You dont know what a Blood Libel is
A Blood libel is the accusation the jews killed a christian child for Mazah. It usually occurs around Pesach time.
It is not the accusation that a suicide was actually a murder and covered up.
I’m writing a book about a story my spouse told me that Feif Un, soleik, and zahavasdad are the Long Island murderers. That the three of them, in cahoots, murdered the over half a dozen young women that the cops have been unearthing in the past 18 months, that were buried on the Ocean Pkwy shore on L.I.
I’m sure none of the three of you would consider this future bestseller a lie or libelous or defamation in any way. It is tentatively titled, “The Unsolved Mystery, Solved” sub-titled “A story of how three young men committed the Long Island murders”.
After all, I did quantify in the beginning of the book that it is based on what my spouse told me.
To the defenders of this low-life, fame-seeking loser –
I honestly don’t know why I did this because I actually wasted my time going to S & S website and reading some of her trashy book. Perhaps I just wanted to prove to myself that inmates are running the asylum. Unfortunately there are posters here that love when s/o puts down Chasidim and/or Frum people.
Maybe it was just my wishful thinking that these posters would finally shut up, but I know that will never happen.
This is like going to a Neo-Nazi site and saying the “Protocols of the Elders of Zion” is a total fiction. Noone is interested in the truth. Neither are the Charedi bashers here interested in the truth!
Anyway here is part of the excerpt:
“All my aunts and uncles are hard on their children, it seems to me. They berate them, embarrass them, and yell at them. This is chinuch, child rearing according to the Torah.”
Notice I didn’t quote the whole paragraph where she constantly bashes her family -perhaps her description is true? Perhaps in her family the description how they raise kids is accurate?
But the line I quoted is “This is chinuch, child rearing according to the Torah”. Maybe some people raise kids like this but to say -“This is chinuch, child rearing according to the Torah”, is an outright lie. No one can claim this is the definition of Chinuch, even if some hold you are allowed to raise kids like this.
I didn’t have to go too far to find this lie. I’m sure there are many more. I really think the people here defending her should take a good hard look in the mirror and ask themselves -“What does being a Jew really mean?”
“All my aunts and uncles are hard on their children, it seems to me. They berate them, embarrass them, and yell at them. This is chinuch, child rearing according to the Torah.”
According to another poster in the Yated roundtable Thread it says in S’A to use a belt on the kids.
Wow Health…really? I thought better of you. After spending post after post saying how her book is full of lies (and that’s she’s a horrible person, etc etc), you chose to use THAT line as a proof? Really?
I thought better of you. Let’s take it apart, shall we?
“All my aunts and uncles are hard on their children, it seems to me. They berate them, embarrass them, and yell at them. This is chinuch, child rearing according to the Torah.”
First of all, I’m going to rely on you for this quote, as I haven’t read the book myself. However, as a curious bystander to this conversation, I am just interested to know where/when she is lying, and how so.
Her quote “All my aunts and uncles are hard on their children…” seems to underlay the fact that everyone on this thread seems to be in agreement – she has had a rough childhood. It also seems that her quote “they berate the, embarrass them, and yell at them” is 100% true, at least from her perspective.
According to her, that’s chinuch. That’s what she saw, and that’s what she experienced.
Now, for you to say it is an “outright lie” is wrong; you may think otherwise of chinuch (and you may even be correct!), but she is entitled to her opinion.
But what I think upsets me the most about you and the other posters is that you assume that anyone questioning the claim that she is a liar is in fact “Charedi bashers”.
I’m insulted.
But try again with me, will you? Please quote something she said that is a lie.
Thanks!
I penned her an open letter here yesterday. Obviously MODs thought it was a bit too sharp. And I only touched upon decency, not anything yet about Yiddishkeit, Torah, HaShem. Perhaps mods would let through my inroduction. MODs, if you feel this is also is too much, you may delete it. (If you decied you want the rest.. Kol Hakavod)
An open letter to Dxxxxxh Fxxxxxn
no one’s defending her, we’re just not interested in people being called liars without any kind of substantiation to the claim. there’s a difference.
Why, in the name of all that is holy, is this thread still open when many people have asked that it be closed? This discussion will never get anywhere, and will only cause more and more discord between members. Mods, please, CLOSE it.
Zdad -“According to another poster in the Yated roundtable Thread it says in S’A to use a belt on the kids.”
Using a belt is not constantly ranking kids out. And many posters over there quote Rabbonim on this point.
Do you know the meaning of self -hatred?
Soliek – agreed. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem like many of the other posters have the mental capacity to understand that.
ZeesKite…wow. Perhaps you would like to enlighten us with why you feel such unconditional hate towards her? After all, she is still Jewish…no matter how far off the path she might be.
thecuriousone –
I’m just curious -curiousone -do you know the difference between s/o presenting something as fact or presenting it as opinion?
You just proved my post above and I’ll quote it –
“Maybe it was just my wishful thinking that these posters would finally shut up, but I know that will never happen.”
“According to her, that’s chinuch. That’s what she saw, and that’s what she experienced.
Now, for you to say it is an “outright lie” is wrong; you may think otherwise of chinuch (and you may even be correct!), but she is entitled to her opinion.”
She is entitled to her opinion, but she presented it as fact. Had she wrote -“Because of these people’s behavior I got the opinion that this is Chinuch” -this would be presenting it as opinion. She didn’t write that – she wrote -“This is chinuch, child rearing according to the Torah”. She presented it as fact. Since her fact is totally not true -a lie in other words -she is a proven liar.
What purpose do you get by defending her when she clearly lied and defined a Mitzva in the Torah that is definitely not its’ meaning? In other words what’s your agenda?
She says on The View that “Hasidic sex is oriented towards procreation,” because of the timing of Taharas MaMishpacha.
Isn’t Taharas HaMishpacha the obligation of EVERY Jewish married couple, not just Chasidim? Isn’t it true that intimacy between a married man and woman is ultimately to have children? She makes it sound that there’s something wrong with that.
She says in her book that she’s taught in Kallah Class that “Niddah” means “kicked aside.” Doesn’t it mean “moved” or “separation” ?
Then she writes,
” ‘Is this ok with you?’ I want to ask. ‘Agreeing that you are dirty because you are a woman?’ I feel betrayed by all the women in my life.”
Being a Niddah is just a different status. Who ever said that it was dirty? Why does she write that she feels betrayed?
Deborah has been through significant trauma and chose to leave Judaism. It’s unfortunate that she does not realize that there are good & simple Jews out there who follow the letter and spirit of the law without going to extremes.
I just cannot understand why there is so much verbal bashing going on in this thread. Who are we to judge her? God hands each of us our own party bag of tests, & we do not know (& certainly cannot judge!) how or why anyone reacts to their handout.
I want to reiterate that it is important to remember that this is a public forum, & one does not know who is reading. The ramifications would be devastating.
Be. Careful.
Health found another blatant lie by this rashanta simply by looking at an excerpt on the publishers website. She wrote that Torah chinuch/child rearing means berating, yelling, and embarassing children. Aside being a lie, it is a direct attack upon the Torah itself.
Health-
Again, I thought you were a bit smarter than this. She doesn’t need to preface every line she says in her book with “My opinion is…”
That’s exactly what this book is about – her opinions.
Have you ever read a biography before? If not, I recommend you do.
What purpose do you get by defending her when she clearly lied and defined a Mitzva in the Torah that is definitely not its’ meaning? In other words what’s your agenda?
My agenda is to discover the truth. No different than yours. However, I am coming here without any opinions…just an open mind.
I am not defending her…I am just questioning you and the other posters that come here and immediately spew vitrol towards her. Try to view her situation in a light of understanding, not with hatred and contempt.
If a person goes through a trauma, she should deal with the specific issue.
No one is forcing her to write and sell for money, a book which gives a distorted view of a Chasidic lifestyle or a Torah-observant lifestyle, to non-Jews or to non-Torah-observant Jews.
No one is forcing her to give public interviews with a distorted view of a Chasidic lifestyle or a Torah-observant lifestyle, to non-Jews or to non-Torah-observant Jews.
TV and the Internet are world-wide public forums, & one does not know who is reading or watching. The ramifications would be devastating.
She. Should. Be. Careful.
JaneDoe18: Therapy would have been brilliant for her! 100% agreed. Unfortunately there is some stigma against that in some sects of the Jewish community.
“TV and the Internet are world-wide public forums, & one does not know who is reading or watching. The ramifications would be devastating.”
Absolutely. I do not condone what she did. I am merely suggesting that the verbal bashing be done with. 1) It cannot possibly serve to help her. That is what she needs. Help. A loving & supportive environment to help her heal when she is ready. Right now she is angry and probably would not react well to Facebook messages and invitations to spend Shabbos 2) all we need is for some non-Jew to read this thread & take words out of context.
J18 She. Should. Be. Careful.
Shes very careful. About making money. At any cost.
Shes way past that stage….. shes totally lost…
No one mourns the wicked: Are you stating what you think is extreme? Who actually is going to define extreme for deborah feldman? I think she is extremely sick but thats just my OPINION
thecuriousone:
Obviously you’re new to this thread. I’ve written at least five pieces – that DID make it through here! Let me try to explain myself yet another time.
-why such ‘unconditional hate towards her? Simple. It’s a mitzvah to hate enemies of HaShem (that’s God). OK? It’s brought down in all seforim (starting from chumash – replete in Tehillim – too numerous in Talmud and Medrash, sifrei Mussar etc. She’s public enemy #1. She hates HaShem, His chosen people, His Torah, His way of life.
-..After all, she is still Jewish. Not quite. She’s on a point of no return. Is it possible for her to undue this greatest massive chilul HaShem in the world’s history?
-..no matter how far off the path she might be. Again as I’ve written before, over and over again, even the infamous malshinim, meshumadim of old weren’t as rabid as her. Sorry. Moridin vlo maalin. Bye bye.
After all, she is still Jewish…no matter how far off the path she might be.
Don’t antagonize me, I’ll post my letter in it’s entirety. (mod willing)
“She. Should. Be. Careful.” sounds like a threat.
If I beg, would the mods please close this thread? I’ve been watching the reply count for the last few days and at 400+, I’d say you can stick a fork in it, it’s done.
heres what it boils down to. im not sure which interview it was but i remember her using the term ambivalent to describe her feelings toward judaism. the term ambivalent describes a condition where a person feels strongly both ways about an issue. the way i see it shes someone who suffered, became terribly disenfranchised, and felt a strong need to lash out, which she did in the form of her book.
as far as she is concerned right now she never wants to have anything to do with judaism again, but that term ambivalent is telling–it means that she has feelings either way. therefore i conclude that rather than trying to vilify her, we should be trying to show her the beauty that judaism has to offer–the beauty she never saw as a child.
i cant even blame her for writing the book; why should she not write a book being negative about judaism if she never experienced anything positive in judaism?
she never once mentioned experiencing a shabbos…not ONCE! shabbos is one of the most beautiful parts of judaism and she only ever mentioned it to refer to the day of the week. she grew up in a system–satmar in williamsburg. systems fail. in her case it failed wherever and whenever possible. what do you expect from someone like that? positive feedback? how?!
we all know that there IS beauty in judaism; we’ve all experienced it. so why should we keep it all to ourselves? why not share it with this person who unfortunately had difficult life?
I sympathize with her for having lived through an unhappy upbringing and marriage.
However, her book and her interview do not limit themselves to those specific issues. They make persons, who are not familiar with and do not understand a Torah-observant lifestyle, believe that the practice of Judaism is oppressive to those who observe it.
thecuriousone -“Health-
Again, I thought you were a bit smarter than this. She doesn’t need to preface every line she says in her book with “My opinion is…”
I am smart enough to see right through you and I know what your agenda is.
“That’s exactly what this book is about – her opinions.
Have you ever read a biography before? If not, I recommend you do.”
You seem to think that you can write a book, article or anything and can lie till your heart’s content without calling your work a fiction. You also have no problem when these lies put an individual, or like in this case, a whole group of people in a bad light. I don’t care if she actually called her book an autobiography, (she didn’t btw -she called it a memoir), this doesn’t give her the right to lie, even though we know it’s her “opinion”.
Obviously you don’t have a basic understanding what a lie is or what truth is. You’re actually the first person I’ve met like this.
I’ll give an example -the Gemara says to say a Kallah is beautiful when she’s not – is a lie. Even Bais Hillel doesn’t say it’s not a lie, just it’s Muttar to say anyway. Acc. to your corrupt way of thinking why is it a lie -it’s just their opinion? It’s still considered a lie because most opinions are not like this and consider her not to be beautiful. This case is much worse. It might be her opinion that is what Chinuch is, but since the Torah doesn’t define it the way she does -her sentence is a blatant lie!
“My agenda is to discover the truth. No different than yours. However, I am coming here without any opinions…just an open mind.”
Since you don’t know what a lie is -what I just quoted from you is a lie. How about opening your mind and learning what most people in this world know, even G. Washington, what a lie is and what truth is.
“I am not defending her…I am just questioning you and the other posters that come here and immediately spew vitrol towards her. Try to view her situation in a light of understanding, not with hatred and contempt.”
Saying you are not defending her is another lie. Any vitrol towards her is because of something called Motzay Shem Ra on her part. I’ll translate if you don’t speak Hebrew -lying to make a person or people look bad. Even the avg. Goy understands this concept – that’s why they have laws against libel and slander.
Since this trash book of lies is against a certain group, even if it would be true this would be called racism in our P.C. life in this country. The only reason why the publisher & the author are getting away with this racism because this country has a double standard between Jews and e/o else.
It reminds me of the folk song about hatred -how this group hates the other group, but the lyrics end -“and (or but) everybody hates the Jews”!
To those who want the “list of the lies”;
first of all, if one of you is observant even to a minimal extent – you see many outright lies, especially when talking of “intimate” stuff, [which I don’t wanna go in to as not to get dirty..], almost every subject where she’s mocking the torah, let alone frumkait or chassidus, it’s lie after lie, or in the best case exaggerations blown way out of proportion, marking everything with a dark black marker.
If you have a problem finding it yourself, you’re obviously very far away from Torah umitzvos, don’t know how many generations exactly.
But just to name one, is the real old time blood libel with a father killing a son because he acted inappropriately, #1, if u belive the story just from hearing it, your not only far away from Jewish life and jewish people, but also full of hate. #2 the medical records show he was 19 or 20 years old, while she stated fact of the matter that he was 13! no difference between 13 and 20? blatant lie!!
#3, besides, I happen to know the father, he did work for us not long before that story upstate NY, I’ve heard all details at time being, this boy was nebach mentally unstable, while the father is a super calm, nice and friendly person, and would’nt be oiver on “loi tirzach”, but again, if you’re here to “love” all meshumodim and rebels, and “hate” all ehrlicha yidden, there’s no reason in arguing with you or bringing up again and again many of the lies that were mentioned numerous times throughout the last 400+ posts.
In the interest of them avoiding hypocricy, I take it that Fein Un, soleik, and zahavasdad do not find the book I’m authoring, as described above, at all objectionable. After all, just as DF attributed the murder accusation against the Jewish father of his son to a story she heard from her spouse, I too am attributing the murders accusations against the trio to what I heard from my spouse.
“no one’s defending her, we’re just not interested in people being called liars without any kind of substantiation to the claim. there’s a difference.”
Here’s the thing: I’m sick and tired of talking about this book. But I do believe that it’s more probable that you really don’t know much about the Chassidic community and therefore can’t find any lies in the book, than that you’re just trying to get under my skin.
I will, bli neder, go through the book again later today and gather some excerpts of her lies.
For now, though, I posted this from an amazon review on her book:
“He breaks the silence finally, shifting first in his seat and readjusting his coat. “So my sister tells me you’re a teacher?” I nod my head yes. “Very nice, very nice.” “What about you?” I ask, having been given the smallest of go-aheads. “You’re still in yeshiva? What’s it like at twenty-two? Are there people there who are you rage?” I know that will hit a sore point”. p.129/. l. 2366. Please view this video on YouTube. “The View, Rejection of Hasidic Jews in Brooklyn.Deborah Feldman Book”. 3:15. “you met you future husband just once before your wedding day…. is that correct? Yes.. Can you take us back to that day? i can only tell you that I was absolutely terrified … and I don’t remember… I couldn’t remember a word!” How wonderful that is from her to make that effort, special for us, and write a few pages from a conversation she didn’t remember a word! 🙂
“as far as she is concerned right now she never wants to have anything to do with judaism again, but that term ambivalent is telling–it means that she has feelings either way. therefore i conclude that rather than trying to vilify her, we should be trying to show her the beauty that judaism has to offer–the beauty she never saw as a child.”
“i cant even blame her for writing the book; why should she not write a book being negative about judaism if she never experienced anything positive in judaism?”
“she never once mentioned experiencing a shabbos…not ONCE! shabbos is one of the most beautiful parts of judaism and she only ever mentioned it to refer to the day of the week. she grew up in a system–satmar in williamsburg. systems fail. in her case it failed wherever and whenever possible. what do you expect from someone like that? positive feedback? how?!”
“we all know that there IS beauty in judaism; we’ve all experienced it. so why should we keep it all to ourselves? why not share it with this person who unfortunately had difficult life?”
You seem to believe that there are two kinds of people in the world. Those with easy lives (who consequently have an easy time appreciating the beauty of Yiddishkeit), and those with difficult lives (who are excused should they find Yiddishkeit to be an unwanted burden.)
Guess what? There are plenty of us who had/have difficult lives. She is not the first one to have grown up in such a home. She made a choice to abandon Yiddishkeit, rather than figure it out, and she made a choice again when she decided to lie about her community to the public.
“and (or but) everybody hates the Jews”!
You mean it’s not National Brotherhood Week?
“She. Should. Be. Careful.” was not meant as a threat,
any more than when someone wrote above, “Be. Careful,” and did not mean it as a threat.
What was meant is that she should be careful as to what she writes and says to the public about the practice of Judaism, so as not to present a distorted view of it.
ZeesKite: We believe that EVERYONE can do teshuva. Who are you to say that she’s beyond that point? Are you God to know that someone can’t repent?
Health: Again, instead of just spewing hatred, please list some of the lies she wrote about – and not the same old thing about the possible murder cover-up.
JaneDoe18: No, intimacy between a husband and wife is not ultimately to have children. Many meforshim state this. It is one goal, yes, but it’s not the main purpose. If it was, then when a woman was unable to have children anymore due to age, the husband should divorce her and marry someone young.
I’ve heard from a few Rabbonim that the way some groups view intimacy is wrong. The Rambam writes about what it should be, and many groups go completely against the Rambam.
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