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Zeeskite,Satmar does not equal Hashem. Guess what,you’re allowed to criticize Satmar. Also,Boone has cited any examples of her lies
She publicly stomped and spit upon the Torah r’l.
Satmar not equal to Torah.
The laws of Tznius, Taharas HaMishpacha, and Mikvah Immersion apply to ALL Jews, not only to Satmar.
When she made fun of those laws, especially in public,
she held ALL Jews and Judaism (the Torah’s way of life for Jews) up to ridicule.
By the way, those sarcastic remarks in “The View” interview, that I cited above, were making fun of HER, too.
At the end of the interview, it’s said,
“This is not a condemnation or a criticism of that religion.”
No. Of course, not.
lesschumras, how is it in other topics you get all righteous when folks criticize MO or YU. Yet here you are okay with criticism?
In any event, she criticized Judaism itself and its holy practices in a vile despicable untruthful manner. If someone criticized Rabbi Yoshe B. Soloveitchek and the way he practiced Judaism, would you be okay with that and now be writing that R. Soloveitchek doesn’t equal Torah?
I just watched her interview on The View. I do not think she said anything factually incorrect about the Chasidishe community.
She did not seem bitter and I am really wondering what she said about the community that is untrue. As far as I saw from her interviews (New York Post, Jewish Week, Daily Mail Etc. and The View) everything she said is factually correct
Zahavasdad,
I mean things she said about her community as far as rules and, what women are expected to do, how women are expected to dress etc.
(I do not know enough about the alleged cover up you are referencing or how she portrays it to comment)
She was clearly talking about her Satmar Chasidishe Education and Marriage and that is how she presented it.
I do not think she said anything not true about Taharas Hamishpacha either.
Why are people so offended by the idea that someone could find something they find beautiful (like Tharas Hamishpacha and other aspects of frum living) not so beautiful or even downright repulsive?
You expect the parents of Baalei Tshuva or even just non religious people to respect your way of living and allow you to share your opinions of their lifestyle. So let this Girl express hers, it really shouldn’t bother anyone what she says!
The interview on the View was somewhat factual (except for part about the Kletzky murderer being Chassidic, that was atrocious. She knows very well the murderer talked in the papers about eating Treif, etc, and we saw pics of his ex-wife, totally NOT Chassidish, far from). It was clearly designed to malign the entire community and make all Chassidim look like people left over from a long ago time capsule. It was painful to watch. Im not Chassidish but I have many Chassidish relatives and they have beautiful normal families. Youd never believe that could be possible by watching today’s program.
How does she not care that she is encouraging Anti-Semitism?
The laws of Tznius, Taharas HaMishpacha, and Mikvah Immersion apply to ALL Jews, not only to Satmar.
When she made fun of those laws, especially in public,
she held ALL Jews and Judaism (the Torah’s way of life for Jews) up to ridicule.
Sure, and transubstantiation makes sense. 🙂
All religions have illogical points. I (and others) will not see that as a point either way, except perhaps for Marx.
000646
Sorry for not responding sooner, I haven’t logged in since yesterday afternoon.
I’ll post some of her qoutes from the New York Post interview that are factually incorrect. Keep in mind that as a Chassidic woman myself (although not Satmar), I can relate to her description of a fanatic chassidic upbringing (Yes, families like hers exist, but there are only a handful of them), however, she chose to protray that as the standard Chassidic lifestyle.
(Liar.)
NY Post: You say there were many ways in which you felt like your safety was not protected, because of the Hasidic reliance on faith.
[non-Hasidic]
(If you ever wondered what they teach in Satmar, now you know.)
(Liar.)
(Ouch. Personal insult.)
Mytake- I completely agree with your post.
000646- as a Chassidish woman myself, Deborah is full of lies. It’s possible she was brought up with all those lies, but this does not account for even 80 percent of Chassidim.
I live surrounded by Chassidim, and our lives are not a bit like hers.
Yes, we do have our share of problems in our community(as in every community btw), but most of us lead happy, normal lives.
She painted a terrible picture. We do have restrictions, but her lies were totally off.
I have a friend who has smicha from YU . He got a job at a Satmar school
The boys (It was an elementary school) use to call him Shaygetz. He was a Rav and had valid Smicha, but the Satmar boys called him a Shaygetz (he thought it was funny)
mytake: If you weren’t raised in the Satmar community, how do you know she’s lying? It’s well known that Satmar keep many more chumros than almost anyone else, especially when it comes to women. You say she’s lying about not being able to eat out. How do you know? Maybe in Satmar communities this is true? Just because it wasn’t the case for you with your chassidus doesn’t make it a lie.
I’ve also heard about women not being allowed out after a certain hour. Do you say it’s a lie because she said it’s a new thing? Is it really an old thing?
As for the reading level, I’ve seen it! I had a teacher in high school who also taught at a Satmar yeshiva. He was supposed to teach English. He told us it was the biggest joke. Only 2 kids even showed up to class every day (out of 25-30 kids, I don’t remember exactly), and they barely spoke any English. The principal even told him the kids wouldn’t be interested in showing up, and that they didn’t need to learn English when they knew Yiddish. I think the only fallacy in her line there was saying “Most girls graduate”. I think they don’t get that far.
today is the release at The Corner Bookstore in the city, feel free to go and voice your grievances in the Q&A (just be civil about it).
The book should be renamed: “The Protocols of the Elders of Satmar.”
Mytake,
Before I reply point by point I want to stress I am NOT saying that a secular life is better then a Chasidishe one. I am just saying that this women is not lying and that the fact that she found this lifestyle not good does not mean it is not a GREAT lifestyle for some.
I went to a really Yeshivish (although not Chasidishe)High-School. I was told it dosn’t “Pas” for a Ben Torah to eat out in a restaurant and that we should not do so. I do not find it hard to believe that a strict Satmar Family would not let it’s women eat out.
Again in my experience in the Yeshivishe community the more Yeshivishe people are less makpid on driving laws, underage drinking etc. then more modern or not frum people. So I do not find it hard to believe her here either.
[non-Hasidic]
I remember being told by my High- school teachers that “Just because a Goy is wearing a uniform does not make him any less of a lowlife then a bum on a street corner and given the chance they would do what the Nazis did”
My understanding from speaking to some friends who are familiar with Satmar is that Beis Ruchel Dsatmar forbids it’s high-school girls from being on the street after certain hours(with some exceptions when attending a friends wedding etc.).
Allot of the Chasidieshe men I meet speak english on about a 4th grade level so this is not a leap.
Feif- she’s talking about all “Hassidim”. She had no intentions of making it clear to the public that she’s only talking for a TINY minority within Chassidishe communities.
I think it’s time to close this thread because I think the comments here are doing more harm than good. I see the points on both sides, but Non-Heimishe come here and might intrepret the defenses here as agreement to her overall decision that Chassidish life isn’t worth Didley -squat.
Please Close This Thread!
Thanks.
She has been making many patently false statements, as several posters pointed out above.
If she dies, it is a mitzvah to makes a party for that.
Mytake,
Before I reply point by point I want to stress I am NOT saying that a secular life is better then a Chasidishe one. I am just saying that this women is not lying and that the fact that she found this lifestyle not good does not mean it is not a GREAT lifestyle for some.
I went to a really Yeshivish (although not Chasidishe)High-School. I was told it dosn’t “Pas” for a Ben Torah to eat out in a restaurant and that we should not do so. I do not find it hard to believe that a strict Satmar Family would not let it’s women eat out.
Again in my experience in the Yeshivishe community the more Yeshivishe people are less makpid on driving laws, underage drinking etc. then more modern or not frum people. So I do not find it hard to believe her here either.
[non-Hasidic]
I remember being told by my High- school teachers that “Just because a Goy is wearing a uniform does not make him any less of a lowlife then a bum on a street corner and given the chance they would do what the Nazis did”
My understanding from speaking to some friends who are familiar with Satmar is that Beis Ruchel Dsatmar forbids it’s high-school girls from being on the street after certain hours(with some exceptions when attending a friends wedding etc.).
Allot of the Chasidieshe men I meet speak english on about a 4th grade level so this is not a leap.
“The book should be renamed: “The Protocols of the Elders of Satmar.”
omg that was actually funny 😀
000646- my teachers always told us it doesn’t “pas” to eat out. That doesn’t mean we’re not allowed to. We learn many things in school. Then we choose to follow what we want.(Except for outright Halacha obviously).
Safety- I totally disagree. But maybe we each know different people.
About teaching that Goyim are bad people, she’s more right. But that’s changing a lot. Children are being taught differently today.
Curfew? Gimme a break. Never heard of that. And I’m VERY Chassidish.
And about speaking english, my entire school, camp friends, and neighbor
have perfect English skills.
Men are not girls- she specifically said about the girls. The men definitely need to shape up their English, yes.
If her school taught them English on a fourth grade level, she should not say it on all Hasidic people.
A Woman outside bklyn: I don’t understand why your post went through. Isn’t that against the rules of this coffeeroom?
“The book should be renamed: “The Protocols of the Elders of Satmar.”
Like!
Smartcookie,
You said: “000646- my teachers always told us it doesn’t “pas” to eat out. That doesn’t mean we’re not allowed to. We learn many things in school. Then we choose to follow what we want.(Except for outright Halacha obviously).”
Ok so would you be shocked if a Chasidishe family didn’t let their daughter eat out because it doesn’t “Pas”? I don’t think so.
You Said: “Curfew? Gimme a break. Never heard of that. And I’m VERY Chassidish.”
I am talking about rules made in what I understand is the main Satmar girl’s high school. Is my information false?
You said “Men are not girls- she specifically said about the girls. The men definitely need to shape up their English, yes.”
My limited experience interacting with very chasidishe people would tell me that you are incorrect.
000646- well if her family didn’t allow her to eat out, what is she doing bashing Chareidim all over in the media?
If my family doesn’t allow walls to be painted white, why would I go around telling the world that “hassidim” don’t paint their walls white?
Her stupid “rules” apply to such a small minority. But she’s painting a HUGE picture.
About curfew- if I grew up and live between Chassidim only, and I NEVER heard about a curfew, how many Chassidim do you think really follow this curfew thingy?
And maybe you’ve got to interact with Chassidish WOMEN a little more, as opposed to your limited interaction with them, and see how educated many of us are. Not all, but oh so many.
As I said, the men need lots of brushing up on their English language. I will not deny that which is true.
000646
“I am just saying that this women is not lying and that the fact that she found this lifestyle not good does not mean it is not a GREAT lifestyle for some.”
Having said that, I’d like to reply to each of your points.
“I went to a really Yeshivish (although not Chasidishe)High-School. I was told it dosn’t “Pas” for a Ben Torah to eat out in a restaurant and that we should not do so. I do not find it hard to believe that a strict Satmar Family would not let it’s women eat out.”
It’s quite a stretch going from “it doesn’t pas for a ben-Torah” to “women are not allowed”. One is clearly a stringent practice and the other sounds kind of oppressive. She should have made this distinction when mentioning it. And yes, strict Satmar families do not eat out because it doesn’t pas. But it’s NOT a general chassidishe rule. And the book’s subtitle is “The Scandalous Rejection of My HASIDIC Roots.”
“Again in my experience in the Yeshivishe community the more Yeshivishe people are less makpid on driving laws, underage drinking etc. then more modern or not frum people. So I do not find it hard to believe her here either.”
I cannot think of a way to back up my claim that you are making an unfair and untrue accusation. It’s just your experience vs. mine. Where I come from, safety is given priority.
“I remember being told by my High- school teachers that “Just because a Goy is wearing a uniform does not make him any less of a lowlife then a bum on a street corner and given the chance they would do what the Nazis did”
I was also taught quite a bit of nonsense in school. But I understand that this doesn’t reflect the philosophy or practices of chassidim. You’ll find idoiots talking like idiots anywhere.
“My understanding from speaking to some friends who are familiar with Satmar is that Beis Ruchel Dsatmar forbids it’s high-school girls from being on the street after certain hours(with some exceptions when attending a friends wedding etc.).”
I KNOW people in Williamsburg. I have relatives there. They come and go from their homes whenever they want to.
“Allot of the Chasidieshe men I meet speak english on about a 4th grade level so this is not a leap.”
You’re right about the men. She said girls, though.
My point is she exaggerated and lied and she KNOWS it.
I AM Satmar and she IS lying. Satmar GIRLS get a superb English education, much better than Yiddish, and better than some more modern schools. Most graduate 12th grade, a shrinking minority 11th. The curfew is a recent takanah only in Willy to prevent unfortunate “maises”. Many Satmar women eat out regularly and most do occasionally. If she had prefaced her interview with a disclaimer that this how a stupid girl (4th grade level) from a dysfunctional Satmar home grows up, PERHAPS she would be saying the truth.
“the more Yeshivishe people are less makpid on driving laws, underage drinking etc. then more modern or not frum people.”
Right, but not because of idiotic “faith” but because we have so many priorities it’s hard to emphasize all of them. BTW underage drinking is more a Yeshivish problem, except on Purim.
[non-Hasidic]
Where did she get this idea from pre-Leiby? This is one sick maidel.
“(except for part about the Kletzky murderer being Chassidic, that was atrocious. She knows very well the murderer talked in the papers about eating Treif, etc, and we saw pics of his ex-wife, totally NOT Chassidish, far from).”
This is actually good news. Whoever looks for the truth will see her for what she is.
As a P.S. let me add my previous post, since nobody seems to have read it:
She sounds very similar to Gitty from KJ, who’s as good-looking and probably as sick as her biological dad while Mom is the craziest woman in KJ. The interviewer describes how she was sitting in his car Friday evening and they were watching fathers, grandfathers, and sons going to shul together. What an impression it must have made on him. The serenity, the kedusha, the regal beauty of the chassidishe levush, the love of fathers holding the hands of their little boys. So what did this neveila say to break the spell? “See those shtreimels? They cost $6000 a piece!” What a pathetic liar. For $1000-$1800 you can get a nice shtriemel. The most expensive ones are $4000. I’ll bet she had a lump in her throat too which she was trying to get rid of.
One is clearly a stringent practice and the other sounds kind of oppressive.
I don’t know a single high school kid that would make that distinction, and the teachers are betting on it. If not, you can throw out all Chassidus, none of which is Halacha (and much is against, such as Z’manim).
Besides, can you blame her for thinking that all Chassidus is like Satmer and has the same rules?
Someone is defensive. Are you also a Chassidish woman? See my post to MSSeeker. Don’t feel the need to justify yourself.
The seat belt thing wouldn’t shock me. I know many people who were taught in high school not to wear seat belts because it’s not Tznius. I would not be surprised if Satmar said the same.
Also, I know the frumest of the frum, some of them so extreme they don’t send their girls to school at all, yet I never heard of a kpeida not to paint walls white. Perhaps her family likes different colors and this idiot thought it’s because of frumkeit. (like some posters here think the latest trend of ladies wearing black is because of frumkeit!)
Msseeker
You did not answer why my friend who taught at a Satmar School was called a Sheygetz
And He is not the only person who Ive heard tell a similar story
Rambam and Shulchan Aruch both say (from a halachic standpoint) that women shouldn’t go out in the street too much. There is nothing extreme or exaggerated about this yiddishe concept.
NO ONE anywhere ever said women shouldn’t wear seatbelts. That is a boldfaced lie through and through.
“Someone is defensive. Are you also a Chassidish woman? See my post to MSSeeker. Don’t feel the need to justify yourself.”
My, what astute psychoanalysts we have here. What’s your evaluation fee? A chilul Hashem of epic proportions is being perpetrated by the vilest means, my way of life is being dragged through the mud by my fellow Jew, the MO posters here are all but applauding her, and I’m mysteriously “defensive”.
“I know many people who were taught in high school not to wear seat belts because it’s not Tznius. I would not be surprised if Satmar said the same.”
Never heard this one before. Are you sure it was MANY? Were they possibly jesting?
BTW Ive walked down Lee Ave and walked into some of the stores on Lee Ave and you can see and feel how the Satmar Looked at me and my family and no we were not dressed crazy.
We were just not dressed like Satmar.
It was not a good feeling. Its one thing if I walk down 125th and not looked upon nicely its quite another when my “Brothers and Sisters” do the same on lee Ave.
BTW I did not feel this way on 13th Ave in BP
No one is applauding her C”V (I hope). Everyone agrees she clearly exaggerated some things or took them out of context to paint them in a bad light. That doesn’t mean that everything she said is inherently 100% false. Some posters are just trying to figure out what she said that was true and what she lied about. The best thing to do with people like her is ignore them anyway.
Zahavasdad- in Willi, the sense of community is a lot more there than BP, and therefore they stared at you. Not for your way of dressing, but because they know you’re an outsider. (This doesn’t make it polite, just saying!)
BP has a much bigger variety of communities, and everyone belongs, so you don’t feel like an outsider.
Msseeker: Yes, many. A friend of mine has (not) gone on 4 dates already because the girl refused to wear a seat belt so he refused to take them anywhere. I have gotten people to speak to the administration of more than one seminary in E”Y because there were teachers there telling the girls it’s Assur to wear seat belts because it’s not Tznius. When one of the teachers heard of my complaints he responded that Giluy Arayos is Yeihareg V’al Ya’avor.
Last I checked I’m a man so meeting up is a bad idea Butliekyea…I’m going because I think its gonna be interesting
BTW Ive walked down Lee Ave and walked into some of the stores on Lee Ave and you can see and feel how the Satmar Looked at me and my family and no we were not dressed crazy.
We were just not dressed like Satmar.
It was not a good feeling. Its one thing if I walk down 125th and not looked upon nicely its quite another when my “Brothers and Sisters” do the same on lee Ave.
From some of the comments you’ve posted on this site, it seems like you really look down on them as well.
You think they are bigots; you think they twist the torah to provide support for their “bigotry. I’d say maybe some of the way you view them came across, and they were only responding in kind.
someone close this thread?
GAW
zahavasdad
“BTW Ive walked down Lee Ave and walked into some of the stores on Lee Ave and you can see and feel how the Satmar Looked at me and my family and no we were not dressed crazy.
We were just not dressed like Satmar.
It was not a good feeling. Its one thing if I walk down 125th and not looked upon nicely its quite another when my “Brothers and Sisters” do the same on lee Ave.”
I’m trying to find a correlation between your last post and topic on this thread. Are you saying that because some people in Satmar have staring problems, Debra Feldman’s book is justified?
“Msseeker: Yes, many. A friend of mine has (not) gone on 4 dates already because the girl refused to wear a seat belt so he refused to take them anywhere. I have gotten people to speak to the administration of more than one seminary in E”Y because there were teachers there telling the girls it’s Assur to wear seat belts because it’s not Tznius. When one of the teachers heard of my complaints he responded that Giluy Arayos is Yeihareg V’al Ya’avor.”
These girls are not Chassidishe and certainly not Satmar. Generally, chassidishe girls don’t date. So the seat-belt accusation is most likely bogus, and most certainly not exlusively a satmar issue.
mytake: She never said anything about people in your community if you’re not Satmar. I think you’re just sensitive about it, and think it’s against you. It’s not. She has issues with Satmar, that’s all.
msseeker: I’m definitely not applauding her. I just happen to agree that Satmar has many problems. I don’t think she should have written a book about it. I hope that she realizes you can be a good, frum Jew without being Satmar. Maybe if they had taught them that in Williamsburg, she’d still be keeping kosher and Shabbos.
When having her in mind (?????????), do we use the mother’s name or father’s? Both would deny any connection.
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