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Rambam, Hilchot Melachim, Chapter 4, paragraph 8:
The King Messiah will take a one 13th part [7.69%] of the all lands that Israel conquers, for himself, and for his descendants forever.Rambam, commentary on Mishnah Sanhedrin, chapter 10:
When the Mashiach dies, his son will rule after him, and his grandson will rule after that.NOTE: This quote is before and above the paragraph labeled HaYesod HaRishon.
In my edition, it is on page 247, on the 16th and 17th lines of that page.Given the two quotes shown above, it is obvious that the Melech HaMashiach cannot be a childless man. Over the past 2,000 years, every man who claimed to be the Melech HaMashiach was childless, or only had a daughter, or only had sons who died before he did. None of them had a son and a grandson after him, as described by Rambam.
Please save these quotes to your computer, for future reference.
Presumably the followers would claim that their Moshiach will father children afterwards – or perhaps that the talmidim can be called children?
I’m playing devil’s advocate here I don’t believe any of them are moshiach
The Gemara says (a famous Shmuely unger song) כל המלמד את בן חבירו כאילו היוולדו
If that’s the case his children can be his תלמידים
The son in law might be considered a son as in rabonus.
Rashi says that the grandchildren call the grandfather father, so a grandson from a daughter might be like a son .
I would like to point out that most commentaries argue with the Rambam’s opinion here, and in very sharp ways.
This all follows his opinion that תכלית השכר is a spiritual world and Moshiach will not live forever.
Most disagree with that approach.
See the Raavad.
The Ramban (יגזור הרב ז”ל מיתה על המשיח ועל דורו)
Avodas Hakodesh: הרמב”ם ז”ל שפט משפט מוות על בני תחיית המתים ועל המשיח ודורו
And many others.Additionally, when Moshiach comes, all מומים and sicknesses will be healed (as ruled by the Rambam as well, הלכות תשובה פ”ט), so I doubt anyone will still be childless. (See also Shabbos 30b)
Irregardless, throughout the signs that the Rambam gives to identify someone as Melech haMoshiach (הלכות מלכים פי”א ה”ד), he makes no mention of having children.
“Please save these quotes to your computer, for future reference.”
I respectfully disagree.
This is too important to just put on my hard drive. It should be reposted weekly.
And besides, I have no more storage space with all the useful quotes that I’ve noticed recently.
Reb Yakov Kaminitsky once said about this subject, those who know don’t say and those who say don’t know.
With all respect to those who claim to know, the reality is that we really don’t know who knows, and that the Ebeshter will reveal his decision in his own time and way w/o having to obtain prior approval from the CR naviim. Even speculation by chazal is still speculation.
Square,
“Any Jew can claim to be Melech HaMoshiach”
There are certain qualifications listed in the Rambam that someone must have in order to be considered Moshiach even before starting the actual Geulah. There are other signs he must show to prove that he is definitely Moshiach and the Geulah has begun. Having a son is not listed among either list.
Never mind! Never mind! I just found out that Yoshke did not base any of his claims on the Rambam. Don’t go clearing up hardware space just for this.
Square root,
Are you talking about moshiach’s descendants or his yichus to Dovid and Shlomo?
Yes, SQUARE_ROOT is right. The Torah calls the Melech a Nasi. “Asher nasi Yechta…..”. It’s clear in Yechezkel (and Yeshaya) that Moshiach will have children. Yechezkel even says (46:16) that his inheritance would go to his sons – and we know according to the Torah, that that means he will die.
And yes, if the Beis din paskens misah on them – so be it. Din Torah is Din Torh
Square,
Sorry, wasn’t intentional
I hate to say this, and even bring it up. But, if the Moshiach didn’t come during the Shoah, when he should have come, who are we to say anything about him – who he is, when he will come, why didn’t he come, does he have children etc.
the best we should say, as when we answer why do bad things happen to good people : WE DON’T KNOW ! and leave it at that. period.“he can just claim that he will fulfill the requirements after death.”
Exactly! Why would you think otherwise? Now that Spinoza has died and having been faced with the truth, of course he is waiting for his chance to return to life. He will then to a complete teshuva, marry and have many sons. Obviously, he is the leading candidate for being mashiach. Many, many, great talmeidi chachamim wrote about spinoza. None of them ever said that he will not be moshiach. And if your one of those types that ignores all the sources in favor of the Rambam, the Rambam doesn’t explicitly exclude those who are resuscitated from among the dead. The Rambam couldn’t explicitly say that it would be someone who comes back after death, because Spinoza wasn’t born yet. And there was the possibility of him becoming mashiach before he even died.
Spinoza – Mashiach ???
He was an apikores as far as I rememberYankel,
I think you misunderstood N0mesorah
We will have all the answers soon.
Forget it! I completely recant. It has recently become obvious to me that the Melech Hamashiach must be the unimpeachable Chananya Weissman. It then follows that there is no room for questions, debate, or presumption.
(It’s just “regardless” – “irregardless” isn’t an actual word.)
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