Medicating vs Spanking

why consider? dont you see that these are more effective?

Positive reinforcement is a better tool to use than negative reinforcement for 2 reasons. Positivity is a motivator to repeat what was learned. Yet by hitting a child, you teach that if you’re bigger and stronger than who you face, you can hurt them. That doesn’t help in real life.

Just because it seems effective, or you were hit yourself as a child, doesn’t mean that it’s the correct thing to do to kids under your care. Even a small love tap can trigger one who has been abused to shut off their inner personality. If hashem wanted us robots, he would have made us robots. Our uniqueness is what makes us great. I mean, how would you feel if you were controlled by fear? Most likely, you still are.

A sign that most are controlled by their emotions is the rampant smoking and drug use nowadays. If you truly loved yourself, why would you harm your body by doing such things? People have a hard time quitting smoking because they never learnt to love themselves.

One more thing. If you shoot a child dead, I guarantee you that he/she will never act out again. But that doesn’t truly solve the issue you have as he/she will definitely cut class for the rest of your lives. Besides, don’t we want to share positive messages? Why are we resorting to painful techniques to control rather than teaching techniques to build?

Neither drugs nor assault is necessary.

If he does have a adhd one of the biggest problems with some one with adhd is the lack of internal motivation most people can do things just for the sake of making the parents happy but someone with ADHD needs a much higher motivation That’s what boring tasks are almost impossible to do is a very interesting share from “rabbi_daniel_kalish_the-most-successful-people-are-adhd” who explains how this works and according to rabbi kalish this is why ADHD people are always looking for ways to be my michadish making their marriage more exciting making their learning more exciting making their davning feel of more exciting the book praying by fire was written by somebody with ADHD as a tool to make his davning more exciting so If done right with the right partner you can motivate an ADHD person to do almost anything you just need a little bit of creativity and excitement reward programs are awesome especially for kids and even for adults and to the naysayers who say well then you just teaching them to always need rewards that’s like saying to a blind person who needs a stick to walk wow you’re teaching him that he would always need a stick well yes that is the way our brains work and we will always need external motivation the trick is to use the right external motivation and the best lesson you can give over to your child with ADHD is this point how do you use external motivation appropriately good luck

why are people telling others what to do and how to discipline and be mechanech their children. every mamme and tatte may use whichever method they wish, including petch and soap. i think i can say for certain and positive that most mammes will give petch and soap for misbehaving. it is okay, there is nothing wrong with it. lets see here how many mothers hit their kids or will use soap, all mothers who hit r soap please speak up and share your voice and opinion, or husbands speak up for your wives.

Aside from some rabbonim who believe/believed that corporeal punishment is not effective in our society, due to the increasingly irreverent and disrespectful nature of children who grow up in the Western world, are we to refer to chosech shivto sonei b’no as child abuse? Did Rav Wolbe and Rav Pam (the only prominent rabbonim I’m aware of who said to completely cease all patching) refer to it as such? Did they say that if you see a parent or a rebbe hitting a kid the yiddishe way, meaning not in anger, and not severely – which halacha mandates or at the very least allows – you should report them to the authorities as a child abuser?

They did not. They lived Torah. They didn’t take their attitudes and values from Western culture.

I have repeated this countless times on several threads on this subject. So many of the comments here are coming from personal opinions, and most are without having been educated and informed on the subject matter. I suggest that before engaging with the keyboard and mouse, first engage with the seforim from the Gedolim of our present and recent generations as well as plenty from even earlier. I hurts me to see the abuse heaped on the posuk in Mishlei, חושך שבטו שונא בנו, as if it directs one to teach via discipline. This is a severe corruption. It is clearly worded to place discipline as a last resort. It also doesn’t specifically instruct to hit, and claiming it does is attributing something to Shlomo Hamelech that he never said. It is sad that we have allowed our chinuch to become founded on discipline rather than teaching. It is sad that we have made about compliance, not the transmission of values. It is sad that our yeshivos now base their success on volumes of data transmitted in place of the transmission of values of our Avos. Just look at the use of tests that translate to grades, which are nothing more than the retrieval of memory, with little to no attention paid to the effort and progress of each individual student. Tests reflect more about the success of the teacher than the progress of the students. It is sad.

The potch has its place. It is there to control behavior, not to teach. Now remind us all of the role of the rebbe. If it is about control, you are describing a boot camp, not a yeshiva. When chinuch deteriorates to the management of the class via discipline, we have a rebbe or teacher that occupies the wrong job, a menahel who is clueless about real Torah chinuch, or a curriculum whose value is simply the paper it is on.

This is not about secular education. It is Torah chinuch. Check your Judaica/seforim store for the publications on chinuch from Torah leaders. Then tell us about how and when to use discipline.

Eishis Chail: I agree firmly with your opinion on spanking children, of course when done sparingly and with yishuv hadaas. I got spanked by my father only 3-4 times in all my childhood, but that was as they call it “gezunte petsh” and was enough for a long time. If petsh have to be repeated every Monday and Thursday then it is not working and only creates a bad atmospher at home. Better give a carefully hard spanking once in 2 years for a real misdemeanor than giving small spankings 4 times a month. Some of my kids got 1-2 times petsh and some did never get to a reason to get petsh and thats because they knew about the possibility of petsh, as one of the previous gedolim said that the kantshik in cheder is hanging on the wall mainly for the children to know that it could be used when neccesary, and so much to use it. About your suggestion that most mammes give petch, unfortunately as far i know very few mammes today have the courage to potch their kids properly and even fathers are getting fewer and fewer. Maybe they give some times here and there a small petshel for small kids for foolish or dangerous things they do, but most kids older then 5 years old do not know what petsh means, as far i know, maybe i am mistaken.

TLIK: The passuk “Chosech shivto” is “kipshuto”, look in the meforshim, look at other psukim in Mishlei like “Atu beshevet takenu vnafhsho mishoil tatzil”, look in Shevet Halevi Chelek 11 pshat in the posuk, and look also in shichas Lubavitcher Rebbe 19 Kislev 5731.

AAQ: Come on, generations of ordinary jews raised children according to tora guidance including petsh, the tora has trusted parents with their children, i am not answering to extremists, i am reffering to ordinary parents

CS – who ever said that?

so you are trying to convince me that what i do is wrong

eishes chayil:

I have repeated this here and other threads on this subject. There is a place for a potch. However, the determination of when it is appropriate is more complex than it ever was. Instead of attempting to mimic what he know or hear about of past generations, we need to see what the gedolim of our times tell us of the guidelines.

Earlier, there was quote about the Brisker Rov. Let’s see what he stated. I report this from a verbatim quote published in a reputable seferon chinuch. The Rov said that the first potch might be permissible under a list of conditions. The second potch is an issur min haTorah of assault. The Gemora instructs this potch to not be with a strap but with a shoelace. It is clear that the potch is not there to punish but to teach. If we cause pain to a child or talmid, are we teaching, or are we establishing the fear to force compliance. The latter might help control the classroom, but it is dishonest to call that teaching.

With all the opinions here, I still ignore all of them, in total deference to the guidance from so many Gedolim of the current and recent generations. The material from their guidance is accessible. We cannot expect a positive result from running our homes and yeshivos like a boot camp. Teach them. Model for them. It works.

IYK – maybe melacha on shabbos means moving furniture….

We have a mesorah for pshat. Rashi first and foremost – I’d suggest learning the actual pasuk with the meforshim before possibly entering the category of megaleh ponim batorah shelo kahalacha.

TLIK -“There is a place for a potch”

The only time that I Know it’s Ok, is when it’s a last Resort.
Eg. – Kid hitting another kid & won’t Stop.
Running across a street, despite trying to hold him/her back.

The ones that say it’s Ok once in awhile are Wrong. (Except with those or very similar cases – I just posted.)
Times have changed & the Gedolim say those Chazals that say Corporal Punishment is Ok – doesn’t Apply nowadays!
The ones that Keep harping on that, are Megaleh Ponim She’lo K’halacha!