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Was there a mechitza at Har Sinai?
No.The women were not at har sinai because they are not Jewish.
lol everyone was there
There wasn’t even a mechitzah in the Mishkan, or the First Temple, nor the Second Temple until late in its history and even then only for the festival of Sukkot (and it wasn’t a mechitzah, it was a balcony).
They were on such a high level there was probably no chashash of kalus Rosh, so they didn’t need a mechitzah.
RF-That is what Rav Avigdor Miller says about the tu b’av and the women dancing. The men only watched with the purest intents to see which woman would help them serve hashem the best.
I’m not sure I buy it.
baruch shekeivanti. I understand your skepticism though, since such a tayna is difficult to support.
I understand your skepticism though, since such a tayna is difficult to support.
I appreciate the empathy, instead of saying like everybody else here would “You are crum. You have no emunas chachomim. You’re an apikores” and such.
There might not have been a Mechitzah at Har Sinai but there were definitely Shtreimlach and Spudiks. I saw pictures.
RF: Actually, it’s entirely untenable. We have so many Takanos and Dinim D’rabannan to avoid even a smidge of Pritzus because people are so easily Nichshal. How is it Shayach to say they were also M’taken something on the assumption that everyone were Tzadikim Gemurim.
‘scuse my flower. If Rabbi Miller ??”? said it, I’m not sure you’re the one to argue.
And RationalFrummie, (VERY RATIONAL), not that you need my humble input, to me it sounds like the correct answer.
The Gemarrah, in a lot of places alludes to the fact that at Matan Torah there was ???? ????? ??? ?????, complete purity of the mind and thoughts. So at that conjuncture there was no need for such to be instituted.
Not so when ANSHEI K’NESES HAGEDOLAH felt the need to institute it – and backed their innovation by pesukim. So no, there’s no reason to mock our tradition of mechitzos nowadays. No – society has not improved since.
No the women weren’t invited. Kvodeh bas malkeh pnima
Why do you assume they stood close enough to need one?
I agree with HaLeiVi. Rashi’s comment in parshas Yisro, ko somar l’veis Yaakov (i.e., speak gently to the women) v’sageid livnei Yisroel (i.e., harsh – punishments and details to the men) would seem to make sense if the women and men were standing separately at the mountain, out of earshot.
Why didnt anyone ask if the yidden left mitzrayim men in front women in the back or if there was a mechitza on the bus. Why didnt anyone ask if there were separate entrances to the yam suf? Why is this suddenly a question at this point in time?
there were separate buses everyone knows that
At least by the Shira we know they were separate.
Why are you getting worked up about their getting worked up about it?
Sam2 – we know that in mitzrayim there was only one story of znus…
Logician: It’s a long way from Mitrayim to late Bayis Sheni. Also, there’s only one case of a Jewish woman being M’zanah with a Mitri. We have no idea how many Jewish men were M’zaneh with Mitzriyos.
??”?: ???? ?????. ?????? ????
{??}??????????? ?????????? ?????? ????????? ???????????? ??????? ???????????????? ?????????????
Nisht: … That’s not what it means. And you probably know that.
I know what it means, however it clearly indicates that they had to attain a specific level of kedusha. Once they were at such a level and specifically relating to such matters, it was likely almost a moot issue. VDAL
Sam, Logician is quoting Chazal. Medrash Rabbah, Emor 35:
?? ???? ???, ??? ?? ????: ????? ?’ ????? ????? ????? ??????:
??? ??? ?? ???,
??? ?????,
??? ???? ???? ???,
??? ???? ?????? ??? ??? ???? ?????.
?? ??? ?? ???, ????? ?????? ?????, ????? ?????? ?????.
?? ??? ????? ?????? ????, ??? ?????? ???????, ??? ????? ?????, ??? ??????? ????????.
?? ??? ?? ?????, ???? ???? (?????? ??): ???? ????? ???? ????? ?????. ???? (???? ?): ?????? ???? ?????? ???? ?????.
????? (?????? ??): ?? ?? ????? ????? ????? ?????.
??? ???? ???? ???, ????? (???? ??): ??? ?? ????? ???. ??? ???? ???? ???? ????? ???? ?? ?”? ??? ??? ????? ??? ?? ?????.
??? ???? ??? ??? ???? ?????, ??? ?? ???? ??, ??? ???? ?????? ?????, ?????: (????? ??): ??? ??? ?????? ?? ???? ???? ??.
nisht: It says nothing about a level of Kedushah. It’s that we (the women) had to be Tahor in order to receive the Torah and if they were with their husbands they could have become Tamei up to 3 days later.
Sorry Sam, somehow thought you were referencing Matan Torah.
I thought you were going to say that, so was going to look up the quote as I remembered it… but Haleivi did it for me (thanks).
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