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Long story short. I follow yekkish minhag all around (many of you know that a DNA test showed I am actually Sephardic, but this is not an issue according to a posek and I should follow my minhag that I adopted when i became frum). I do not do Mayim Achronim as Yekkes do not have the custom. I know the SA and MB regarding Mayim Acronim as well as the Tosfos. My question is this: Should I have Mayim Acronim available for my guests that have the minhag (or follow the halacha if you wish to say)?
99 percent of my guests say “We’ll follow what you do.” One single guy was told by his Rav to go to the sink and wash Mayim Acronim before bentching. Should I invest in a Mayim Acronim cup for my guests and just not do it? Not have one? Start doing it?
Any advice?
It depends how nice you want to be.
Huh – why are your guests bound to your minhag?
I doubt it – we ask our guests if they do mayim acharonim and if so we bring it to the table.
BTW being a yekke and a sephardi are not mutually exclusive, on our yekkishe side we are descended from sephardim from spain
If I was in your position I would probably tell my guests that we don’t pass around mayim acharonim because it’s not our minhag, but feel free to use the sink if you’d like.
We don’t but I ate at the house of a son of Rb Feldman from Monks and we all washed before kiddush.
We just give the mayim acharonim to the guests and whoever wants to wash washes. I don’t think it’s a biggie.
YehudaTzvi – I think as long as you say that in an amicable fashion you have more than done your part as a gracious and thoughtful host. My minhag is to wash mayim acharonim, and as a guest I would not expect more than that.
YehudahTzvi: That’s fine. Although if the person is a S’fardi you probably should make it very clear that you are not at all uncomfortable if they use the sink and that they should if that’s their Minhag.
And, Yitayning…, if you, the host, were on a diet, and drank only diet Coke, you’d tell your guest that if he wants, the reg. Coke’s in the fridge??? Gimme a break! Just bring out the Mayim Acharonim,and do ur hachnosas orchim all the way!
REALIST – I think there’s a difference. But to each their own.
Of course there’s a difference!
There is no Mechaber that says “Coca Cola chova hee”.
But there is one that reads, “Mayim Acharonim chova hee”.
So if one’s minhag is not to adhere to the Sh. A., kol hakavod, but be gracious and allow others to keep the halacha.
To quote you; To each their own. Facilitate it!
we frequently eat at a family that follows minhagei chassam soifer, and they don’t have salt on the table for the challah. when we come they always take out the salt for us.
even though, we could very nicely eat the cahllah without dipping in salt, but it’s just a derech hamoin am, so they put it out.
i would say you should do the same with mayim achronim. don’t make an issue out of it…
REALIST –
It would certainly be an extra nice thing if someone would have mayim acharonim brought to the table for the guests even though it’s not his own minhag. However, I think it would be wrong to suggest that he ought to do it.
My concern is that saying so would lead us further down a slippery slope which we’re already on; one that might lead us to a place where we demand that everyone keep everyone else’s chumros in order to make Yiddishkeit monolithic, because after all, that would be most convenient. On the other hand, suggesting that someone bring Coke to the table would not especially enable chumras to proliferate this way.
yitayning:
I’m not sure what you are saying.
A person ought to do chessed for other people, whenever he can, and to the degree it won’t be too hard for him. This applies whether the other person’s need is a chumrah, a chiyuv, a narishkeit, or whatever.
Of course, there is more of a chiyuv when there is greater need, and we should rank his chiyuvim above his chumrahs which should be above his narishkeit, but you can’t categorically say that we should never do chessed for someone’s narishkeit.
PBA: Yitay is saying that there is a concern that this will make people look and feel like the Minhag to wash Mayim Achronim has greater Halachic basis than the Minhag not to and that it could push out the Minhag not to. I think that’s an issue in some cases (look at what happens with Gebrochts), though whether it’s something to worry about here is a separate discussion.
Sam: I hear the concern, but my rebbeim never said anything about not doing chessed for the sake of making sure people would know about my minhag.
If I have a guest who doesn’t eat gebrochts, I would gladly not have kneidlach.
popa –
I think it is dangerous to tell people that they ought to go out of his way to facilitate others’ chumras. Like I said, it’s a slippery slope. Allow people to do what they want. But don’t tell people they have to help others do everything they want. Just look at how many people have stopped eating gebrochts in the last ten years because of being nice to others. What if in fifty years no one eats gebrochts anymore? Will I, who won’t change, be considered an oisvorf? This is the way of the world. So to stop that kind of thing from happening, I say keep your chumras and do what you want, but keep your kuladig minhagim too and don’t change them for the sake of someone else’s convenience.
lol, sam and i were mechaven to the same chumra
I’m not telling people anything. People should do it themselves, because the whole point of the world is to emulate Hashem, and Hashem’s whole point in creating the world was to do chessed for us.
The torah begins with chessed (Hashem clothed adam and chava), and ends with chessed (Hashem buried moshe.)
So yes, I would sooner have the entire world standing on their head during shmone esrei, than declare something off limits for chessed.
And I am about as anti chumrah as they come. I think that keeping chumrahs beyond one’s level is a way of avoiding having to work on one’s avodas Hashem in a meaningful way. I think that an emphasis on chumrah for most people is a de-emphasis on middos development. I am so ready to bash chumraing, you wouldn’t believe it.
And I used to think that it was a real problem in Judaism. But you won’t notice me posting about that very much these days. I’ve found so many better and bigger problems.
popa-
I don’t see how you are disagreeing with anything I said. I’m fine with people doing it themselves, as I specifically wrote: “It would certainly be an extra nice thing if someone would have mayim acharonim brought to the table for the guests even though it’s not his own minhag.” My point was that telling YehudaTzvi that he ought to do that is heading down that slippery slope. If someone wants to be extra nice on their own, beseder, but I think it is wrong to even hint that someone is expected to go that extra mile. At the same time, I think it IS expected of him to allow them to use his sink, and it would be nice of him to offer. Obviously if someone has a valid chumra it’s no one’s right or business to stop them from keeping it.
ok, maybe we agree.
Maybe I just analogized the CR people telling him what to do, to himself trying to find out the correct thing to do; rather than to the guy demanding it of him.
Anyway, Rabeinu yona says that if you go somewhere for shabbos and they don’t serve shaloshudes, you should be meiz panav and say “??? ???”. So you see, you are supposed to ask the baal babos to do it for you. (This part was not serious)
when Rb Pinchos Kohn and Rb Binyamin Carlebach went to the Gerrer tisch during the First World War the Gerrer rebbe said – bring a knife and a fork for the Deutsche.
This is a raayah berurah she’ein alav teshuvah that if someone with a non-yekkishe minhag visits a yekkishe household that they should be catered for
lol pcoz
Observation:- On Seder nite, in the Kadesh u’Rechatz, washing appears twice:- 1) uRechatz before Karpas; 2) Rochtzo before Motzi Matzo. Yet there is no mention of a 3rd Rechitzo between Tzofun & Borech:- Hence, there couldn’t be clearer proof, that there is no need nor requirement for Mayim Acharonim.
That’s a great point! I’m gonna ask my rav.
The key to being a good host is to make your guests feel comfortable. Get a mayim acharonim (or use a cup and bowl), and pass it around. When it comes back to you, just put it down somewhere. Period. No explanations, long-winded or otherwise.
All the internet rabbis have to learn the difference between a minhag, a chumra, and a din!!! Then, and only then, review all these posts and see if you’d repeat some of your comments.
What is a din for one person is an unnecessary chumra for another.
Realist: Is your point that Mayim Achronim is a Din? I think the people on this thread know that. And yet, a large chunk of Rishonim and Achronim say that Nishtaneh Hateva and it’s unnecessary now. So according to them and people Noheg like them, it’s neither a Minhag, Chumra, nor a Din.
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